Ad Mech in 8th Edition

[Tiger9gamer]

TECH-PRIEST DOMINUS

SICARIAN RUSTSTALKERS

SICARIAN INFILTRATORS

 

 

http://imgur.com/a/edz2p

 

 

 

 

... Welp nevermind on buying those rust stalkers! here's hoping they didn't nerf the dunecrawlers or vanguard as much as this.

 

that being said they still seem at least a little viable. Infiltrators can get even closer than before and can charge the turn they come in, saving themselves a few hits. I cannot see what the aura does but it may help in close combat... and hey, getting the charge we can still give enemies a lot of saves to roll, both with the pistols and with CCW.

 

The dominus makes me very happy, giving us something to help our now neutered Ballistic Skill thanks to the loss of doctrines. he can still shoot very good, and he can help almost every big thing with healing too. I think having two, one to go with our troops / robots and one to go with our artillery, would be a good thing to have in the future. also noticed he cannot fix knights now, based on keyword play (unless a household can later become part of the admech)

 

also... dat phosphor. loses the marking ability for something more akin to ignores cover, and it makes me very hopeful to see what the robots will do now.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Tiger9gamer

[Shinespider]

There's certainly a lot to be skeptical about. Admech has always had a lot of fiddly little rules, it's not terribly surprising that they were stripped out. Let's hope that points have been adjusted to compensate. 

[dogfender]

It would be great if we had some sort of tank.. as the creators and refabricators of all imperial goods it is too much to ask for access to everything, but :cuss give us at least one thing lol

[MajorNese]

In a whatsapp group of mine, this popped up. Source unknown, but one picture of the points cost page came with it, so it should be legit. Translating and sorting...

 

 

Got a quick look over the 'dex. In no way complete or free of errors, just what I remember.

-Canticles are "choose or roll"

-Cawl, Dominus and Enginseer get free repair of D3 wounds on another AdMech model in 3"

-Dominus gets the Cawl self repair

-rangers lose some of the USRs. Galvanic rifles S4 AP0

-vanguard still have radium and -1T in CC

-arc rifles are now S6 AP-1, D3 damage against vehicles

-omnispex reduces cover by one

-data tether rerolls morale

-phosphor ignores cover and AP as calculated, no Luminagen

-Breachers' heavy arc rifle is S6 AP-1. D3 damage, or D6 against vehicles

-Destroyers' plasma weapon does D6 shots.

-sicarians lost movement (8") and special rules

-infiltrators can effectively deep strike (set up 9" from enemy, from reserve)

-kastelan FnP protocol changed. Now increases any save by 1. With fists, Kastelan reach S10 or S11. Flamer is 12" S5 AP-1

-ironstriders are T6 4+. Hello, 30k Mechanicum

-Onager are single model units. Always a 5++, and something about proximity giving a limited reroll.

-Neutron laser is fun. D3 shots S10 AP-4 or -3, D6 damage

 

Models (points per model):

HQ:

-Cawl 250

-Dominus 125

-Enginseer 40

-Servitors 2

 

Troops:

-Rangers 10

-Vanguard 10

-Kataphron 35 (both variants)

 

Elite:

-Corpuscarii 14

-Fulgurite 16

-Infiltrators 18

-Ruststalker 15

 

FA:

-Dragoon 59

-Ballistarii 50

 

HS:

-Onager 90

-Kastelan 65

-Datasmith 22

 

CC weapons:

-power sword 4

-arc maul 5

-taser goad 6

-taser lance 9

-hydraulic claw 8

-arc claw 4

-powerfist 20

-chordclaw 3

-transonic blades 7

-transonic knife 2

-servo arm 12

-power axe 0

-kastelan fists 35

-electro staff 0

-electro fists 0

 

Ranged weapons:

-galvanic/radium rifles 0

-radium pistol 1

-arc pistol 3

-phosphor blast pistol 4

-arc rifle 4

-plasma caliver 14

-transuranic arquebus 25

-heavy grav cannon 30

-plasma culverin 27

-phosphor blaster 8

-heavy arc rifle 18

-torsion cannon 22

-eradication (small) 14

-volkite 8

-macrostubber 2

-phosphor serpenta 6

-laspistol 0

-stubcarbine 2

-flechette 2

-gamma pistol 10

-kastelan flamer 21

-heavy phosphor 15

-twin heavy phosphor 30

-icarus array 40

-neutron laser 45

-eradication (big) 30

-heavy bolter 10

-multi melter 27

-plasma cannon 21

-radium jezzail 4

-cognis flamer 11

-cognis stubber 8

-cognis twin lascannon 45

-cognis twin autocannon 25

 

misc:

-broad-spectrum data tether 0

-smoke launcher 0

-omnispex 7

-data tether 9

Edited May 31, 2017 by MajorNese

[lancerusso]

>rangers ap0

 

Oh, to hell with this.

 

We've lost 60% of our cool optional wargear. Haywire doesn't do mortal wounds to vehicles like eldar haywire does?

Phosphor doesn't do luminagen?

Infiltrators and sicarians are half their points costs now, and hence crap.

 

Looks like the CC skitarii build is no longer viable.

 

At least our beloved vanguard are intact and can get cheap 'they shall know no fear'. Hopefully broad spectrum data tethers on vehicles are nice.

[MajorNese]

Played a bit around with those values, to result in playable units/models (including their gear)...

 

Cult:

Dominus 141 (eradication)

Enginseer 52

14 servo servitor

12 HB servitor

29 multi melter servitor

23 plasma cannon servitor

 

57 arc breacher

73 grav phosphor destroyer

70 plasma phosphor destroyer

 

110 double phosphor kastelan

121 flamer fist kastelan

52 datasmith

 

 

Skitarii:

100 ranger/vanguard (full squad)

112 same with all arc rifles

142 same with all plasma

 

130 infiltrator (taser)

120 infiltrator (sword)

100 ruststalker (claw)

110 ruststalker (blade)

 

68 taser dragoon

63 radium dragoon

 

75 autocannon strider

95 lascannon strider

 

120 phosphor onager

120 eradication onager

130 icarus onager

143 neutron onager (included one stubber)

 

 

In short, while everyone else got more expensive, our stuff is not changed much or even became significantly cheaper. At the cost of all those special rules that defined the army, and Scout that made up for the lack of transports. Doctrines are a joke compared to before, as are infiltrators. Rangers at least camp objectives cheaper than before. Upside, plasma becomes usably cheap, arc and sergeant upgrade costs are down to auto-include levels. With changes to reserves, at least Infiltrators can spontaneously capture objectives. And ballistarii might become usable, double lascannoning some character in the face.

 

 

Haywire doesn't do mortal wounds to vehicles like eldar haywire does?

It's Eldar, what did you expect?

Edited May 31, 2017 by MajorNese

[DeStinyFiSh]

Despite the fact that Sicarians now need to be spammed to do something I am fine with what I see. At least there is nothing to upsetting

 

Edit: Well, replied to quickly...

It is kind of disappointing that we lost so much of the fun tools that made Ad Mech kind of special. I realy loved it to tell my opponents "moment, there is this and that special rule" or "just a second, this unit still has got 2 more weapons to shoot".

 

But still, new edition is meant to be easier and quicker, so maybe this will be a good thing after all. Lets wait till we see the whole picture.

Edited May 31, 2017 by DeStinyFiSh

[gilt_imp]

About the:

Tech Priest Enginseer ability ‘Master of Machines’: can repair a single <Forge World> or Astra Militarum Vehicle within 3 inches. The model regains D3 lost wounds. A model may not be the target of the ability ‘Master of Machines’ ability more than once per turn, regardless of the source.

 

and the,

 

Tech Priest Dominus ability ‘Master of Machines’: can repair a single Adeptus Mechanicus model within 3 inches. The model regains D3 lost wounds. A model may not be the target of the ability ‘Master of Machines’ ability more than once per turn, regardless of the source.

 

Does this mean by definition of the keywords that neither the Tech Priest Enginseer or the Tech Priest Dominus can restore lost wounds to an Imperial Knight?

The only keywords Imperial Knights have are ‘Imperium’, ‘Questor Imperialis’ and <Household>

 

Also where did the Tech Priest Enginseers Servitors go?

[MajorNese]

Also where did the Tech Priest Enginseers Servitors go?

Still there in the profiles. Seem to be unchanged, as there are still multi melter, heavy bolter and plasma cannon in the equipment list. No AdMech unit would use those...

[gilt_imp]

Phew! Must of missed that.

 

Although my idea of a back field long range Knight being supported/healed by some ad mech might need a slight re-think.

[MajorNese]

True. If knights could be repaired (without rolling for success) by a 52p character, that would be too much.

 

Interesting to see the enginseer having a place in AdMech lists, supporting big models like onagers, ironstriders or kastelan and repairing them while costing so few points. The previous Astramiliwhatnow incarnation seemed quite useless.

 

Bonus point, the leaked enginseer profile lists the omnissian axe as Damage 2, haven't spotted that before, thought it was just a fancy name. And there is no other axe in the wargear list, so both Carl and the Dominus should have the same.

 

With changes to vehicles and armour...wouldn't it make sense to mix arc and plasma in vanguard squads? Arc is dirt cheap and auto-include, but at -1AP still sucks against good armour save. Plasma can take care of that, but is still rather expensive. Throw one plasma in, with new wound allocation keep it alive until the entire unit is destroyed.

Edited May 31, 2017 by MajorNese

[gilt_imp]

Hmm sounds like a plan.

With Onagers also becoming single units… I can see an Enginseer on healing duty assigned to a single Icarus Array Onager in the backfield to deal purely with flyers.

 

Mixing plasma and arc in a single squad, it’s almost like those Start Collecting sets become even better, everything ready to go lol.

[MajorNese]

Hmm sounds like a plan.

With Onagers also becoming single units… I can see an Enginseer on healing duty assigned to a single Icarus Array Onager in the backfield to deal purely with flyers.

 

Mixing plasma and arc in a single squad, it’s almost like those Start Collecting sets become even better, everything ready to go lol.

Icarus Onagers...just a question, are flyers still worse to hit? Haven't seen anything on that, but could have missed it. Skyfire on the few leaked units was always "target flyers +1, target anything else -1". Which would still make the icarus a decent anti ground unit.

 

Also, I'm stocking up my fully magnetized sergeants from 2 to 4 or 5. Thank the omnissiah this is so easy to do, with shoulder pads integral and flat surfaces to drill in magnets. That CC stuff/pistols was ridiculously overpriced before, now it's dirt cheap.

[DeStinyFiSh]

More stuff:

 

https://imgur.com/a/GOmlF

 

Canticles got pretty boring, or do I miss something?

Edited May 31, 2017 by DeStinyFiSh

[gilt_imp]

 

Icarus Onagers...just a question, are flyers still worse to hit? Haven't seen anything on that, but could have missed it. Skyfire on the few leaked units was always "target flyers +1, target anything else -1". Which would still make the icarus a decent anti ground unit.

 

As far as I’ve seen yet yes all flyers are targeted the same with the +1 and then -1 against ground targets etc. Mind you the rate these leaks keep coming out...

So an Icarus Onager would do good against ground targets too! Got to get used to these new rules lol.

 

Hmm so about the new leaks:

Onagers don’t get penalised for moving and shooting but do move slow.

Cawls wargear is included in cost. And bonus for rolling on canticles table.

Cybernetica datasmith doesn’t have to run with Kastellans? But he can ‘Master of Machines’ heal them so there is still a reason to run altogether, I know they are sold that way anyway.

 

Trying to read about these Canticles in detail now, can't quite understand what became of them either.

[Commander Dawnstar]

So Kastelans seem really good ... and cheaper.

• 110 points with three Heavy Phosphor Blasters.
• Protocols change at the start of the turn rather than the end.
• 2+/4++ (that reflects shots, causing mortal wounds, on a 5+) with Aegis Protocol.
• All weapons now fire twice in Protector Protocol rather than just the shoulder-mounted weapon. That's 18 Heavy Phosphor Blaster shots each!

[Zunich]

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=!ALe1vRw6e6HC0..

 

full books. rather

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Zunich

[Scurvydog]

A mixed bag, but mostly happy enough with the streamlining of admech as a single force. 

 

My personal greatest highlights:

 

- All admech got canticles (no longer with different values from unit count). Skitarii lost doctrines, but got canticles too.

 

- More choice in troops, Arc is no longer end all be all, and rangers with TA seem dangerous (can target charactersm str 7 d3 dmg). The poor electro priests are cheaper and stronger, with 5+/5+ always in effect, Corpuscarii at 14 points now with str 5 assault 3 "tesla" gauntlets and str 5 with A2 in CC is not that bad I think.

 

- We still got some dangerous weapons, the heavy grav is now flat out better than the SM one with grav amp. Neutron laser is still awesome, and the beamer weapons do not seem half bad either.

 

- Kataphrons got 3 wounds and 6++ save. Breachers got 2 attacks base, so not as pathetic in CC anymore. Torsion vs arc seem a more balanced choice.

 

- Kastelans are still good, protocols streamlined, flamer is now str 5. Aegis protocol seems fun. WS and BS 4+ still poor though. Moving them next to cawl with reroll to hit might be a nice plan. Oh and they got a move value of 8.

 

- Sicarians are sort of meh, cheaper, only 8 move. no FNP. Worth nothing for the infiltrators is how pistols can now be fired in close combat and stubcarbines are now also pistols.

 

- Ironstriders are looking really good. With 10 move and LD buff within 3", they give much needed board presence or support. 4 shot autocannons as the cheap choice is nothing to sneeze at. 

 

- Dunecrawlers are awesome. Icarus array is now only -1 to hit against non flyers, but the laser is just so good at vaporizing anything though, with D3 shots, str 10 ap -4 and D6 damage (with no less than 3 dmg special rule).

 

 

Seems like a pretty balanced list for us currently, at least internally. I might even go get some corpuscarii priests now, I feel they got useful for their 14 points. The worth of rangers will depend on how the TA performs I feel, they otherwise bring nothing interesting.

[Swan-of-War]

A Datasmith is still required for the Kastellans to change their protocols.  Unfortunately, Kastellans are M 8" and Datasmiths are M 6", so they might get left behind if advancing towards enemy lines.

[Tiger9gamer]

I am really not digging this weird number stuff for points... a lot of rounding up and down will be required in order to play a set point game like 1,500 or 1,000 pts. still, made a list using what was leaked and it does look pretty killy:

 

Tech priest Anguis Diode's Artillery company

 

Spearhead detachment +3 CP

 

HQ 1: Anguis Diode (Tech Priest Dominus w/ Eradication beamer and macrostubber) - 141pts

 

HQ 2: Tech Priest Dominus w/ Volkite: 135

 

Troop 1: Kataphron Heavy Destroyers w/ Grav cannons and phosphor: 219pts

 

Troop 2: 10 man Vanguard w/ 3 arc rifles and omnispex: 119pts

 

H/S 1: Dunecrawler w/ neutron laser and stubber: 143

 

H/S 2:  Dunecrawler w/ neutron laser and stubber: 143

 

H/S 3: Dunecrawler w/ Eradication beamer: 120

 

H/S 4: Dunecrawler w/ Eradication beamer: 120

 

H/S 5: 3 Robots with twin phosphor guns: 330pts

 

Elite 1: Datasmith w/ the works: 52pts

 

total: 1522 pts

 

yea, screw the new odd point system. I really liked it when everything is in even numbers of 5... oh well!

 

Anyways, it looks like I could still do a heavy support heavy theme using all my onagers and robots, but I am missing out on the now nerfed troops. I don't know how I would advance to 2,000 pts unless I could bring another detachment, which then I would do a patrol detachment and put one of the domini inside the troop one to even out the points. if I can't well, I may just spend the command points on bringing troops in auxillary detachments or something like that. We can still bring a lot of heavy fire though, and the new dunecrawlers look like they can now cover the lack of good haywire rules. 

 

that said I noticed how the robots will suffer -1 to hit when they move with the guns, bringing them from a good 4+ to a terrible 5+.... and the radium carbines have been nerfed heavily against all but primarius troops so that sucks. we can advance now and still shoot with them, but lost scout and lost data imperatives while really gaining no buffs to these troops... it's a huge net loss really.

 

 

man... I wish GW would buy us dinner first before screwing our army like this.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Tiger9gamer

[lancerusso]

Also, skitarii alphas have lost their two wounds- what the hell.

 

They're no longer more machine than man? Bullcrap.

 

Everything seems to get a 6+ invuln though? But no conversion or refractor field for skitarii- it's really ripped the guts out of skitarii as an independent force and made them and their characters noncustomisable. In fact those characters are pointless.

 

This majorly sucks for me. I play only skitarii.

[Scurvydog]

After looking more through the rules of more armies, it is not all bad. It is easy to focus on what we lost without context, but many other armies got "streamlined" at least for the time being before new books come out.

 

Remember our troops are still good, and most other armies got way more expensive transports now, which helps even the field for admech. 

 

Our kataphrons can still fire heavy without penalty.

 

Our kastelans now get the -1 for using a heavy on the move, but twin linked fists are now just 2 weapons, and works better with canticles (or place them within 6" of a dom or cawl).

 

Don't tell me a kastelan in protector with 18 shots wont scare someone ;)

 

Smiths can now also repair kastelans and with their 4 wounds, powerfist and gammapistol which can be used in close combat, they are dangerous opponents.

 

The flamer is also str 5 ap -1 range 12". Combine that with 8" move and the protocol to give 2 fight phases and you get a good reason to take a some melee focused robots.

[Magos Takatus]

It's interesting that the Kataphron Plasma Culverin is simply superior to standard plasma cannons now. There is no longer a range decrease and plasma weapons don't cause the user harm unless they fire in a more powerful mode so that is a nice improvement. 

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

Cognis flamers now auto hit 

[Zunich]

The Complete Book:

1. rulebook,
2. Imperium 1, 
3. Imperium 2,
4. xenos 1,
5. xenos 2,
6. chaos

 

 

http://fex.net/785487389255

Edited May 31, 2017 by Zunich