Ad Mech in 8th Edition

[Thorakitai]

2 Phosphor Kastelans next to Cawl with double shots is nasty. That will blow away entire tactical squads in cover, and has a good chance of killing a 5 man terminator unit in one salvo. Edited May 31, 2017 by Thorakitai

[Tiger9gamer]

2 Phosphor Kastelans next to Cawl with double shots nasty. That will blow away entire tactical squads in cover, and has a good chance of killing a 5 man terminator unit in one salvo.

 

I'm thinking doing a 4 unit robot squad next to a dominus for sort of the same effect. soooo much dakka, so little time!

[dogfender]

Still no vehicle access. Ad Mech need a rule like Inquisitors have, but with access to fielding any of their choosing.

[Perry]

Big robots with extra shots seems to be the big winner

 

Looking forward to sniping characters with TA, those three I assembled will get some use

[Charlo]

At first I was all "what the hell? Ad Mech are butchered!"

 

But upon looking into it I think they came out one of the best factions:

• Very powerful shooting for a wide variety of targets (High S/ High shots/ High AP/ Snipers)
• Robots got cheaper and better (though multiple wound weapons are scary to them)
• Fun Tactic with Robots: Move forward turn one with Aegis protocols on, sure you lose some accuracy but have good defence and switch to double shots for next turn. Then you unleash hell.
• Surprisingly mobile heavy weapons
• Skitarii remain solid troops, though vanguard got better against bigger targets and worse against enemy troopers
• Great Snipers with the Trans-Aq - sit back with rangers and threaten characters while they ping shots at the bodyguard
• ONAGERS! Quite possibly one of the best weapons ever with the Neutron and the Icarus Array is Dakka Incarnate PLUS better invuln and no penalty for move and fire. Just a huge shame they have a degrading profile.
• Enginseers can fix them now though!
• Electro Priests seem... Viable?! Disco-sticks especially. 5++/5+++ potentially becoming a 3++/5+++ is crazy good and they pummel out Mortal Wounds like nobodies business.

But also some regrettable losses:

• Glad I never bought in Sicarans - RIP, especially the Rustalkers.
• I think infiltrators could work as they'll poop out hits with the Flachette Blaster and Taser Goad and they can charge 1st turn if you're lucky.
• ...But then you look at the Aura now only being -1Ld (insetad if a decent debuff), lack of dunestrider (no GW, 2" base movement extra does not make up for 3" on move/ run/ charge...).
• Doctrina, though they were a bit much I suppose.
• I'm not sure of the point of Cognis on the Lascannon/ Autocannon - but hey double firepower dragoons is good.
• Cawl is pretty much mandatory for maximising canticles and he lost his unique canticles.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Charlo

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

Thank you Charlo, most of what you typed sums up my thoughts but with better words  also brought to my attention things I did not notice on initial glance of the leaks. Also glad I did not yet buy Sicarians, but my stack of Onager boxes are calling my name.   

[Charlo]

I'll be buying sicarans.... To convert into an Eversor Clade because the rules are incredible.

[gilt_imp]

I'll be buying sicarans.... To convert into an Eversor Clade because the rules are incredible.

 

That is a most excellent idea. The figures really suit, what with the Eversor 'augmentations', rules are cool, the box even contains the loadout for them with minimal conversion and 70pts ea including wargear! Hmm I'm thinking of how 4 of them would go tearing into the enemy all from different positions lol. Good thing there are ways to fill elite slots now  Cyber assassins, cool thought!

[Reough]

Why has cognis become a downside instead of a bonus, seems like it's actively trying to stop ballistarii moving whereas before it was just a small benefit to snap fire (and therefore against flyers)...

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

At first I was all "what the hell? Ad Mech are butchered!"

 

But upon looking into it I think they came out one of the best factions:

• Very powerful shooting for a wide variety of targets (High S/ High shots/ High AP/ Snipers)
• Robots got cheaper and better (though multiple wound weapons are scary to them)
• Fun Tactic with Robots: Move forward turn one with Aegis protocols on, sure you lose some accuracy but have good defence and switch to double shots for next turn. Then you unleash hell.
• Surprisingly mobile heavy weapons
• Skitarii remain solid troops, though vanguard got better against bigger targets and worse against enemy troopers
• Great Snipers with the Trans-Aq - sit back with rangers and threaten characters while they ping shots at the bodyguard
• ONAGERS! Quite possibly one of the best weapons ever with the Neutron and the Icarus Array is Dakka Incarnate PLUS better invuln and no penalty for move and fire. Just a huge shame they have a degrading profile.
• Enginseers can fix them now though!
• Electro Priests seem... Viable?! Disco-sticks especially. 5++/5+++ potentially becoming a 3++/5+++ is crazy good and they pummel out Mortal Wounds like nobodies business.

But also some regrettable losses:

• Glad I never bought in Sicarans - RIP, especially the Rustalkers.
• I think infiltrators could work as they'll poop out hits with the Flachette Blaster and Taser Goad and they can charge 1st turn if you're lucky.
• ...But then you look at the Aura now only being -1Ld (insetad if a decent debuff), lack of dunestrider (no GW, 2" base movement extra does not make up for 3" on move/ run/ charge...).
• Doctrina, though they were a bit much I suppose.
• I'm not sure of the point of Cognis on the Lascannon/ Autocannon - but hey double firepower dragoons is good.
• Cawl is pretty much mandatory for maximising canticles and he lost his unique canticles.

 

 

True words...

I was a little fast myself thinking how bad everything has gotten now, but after reading through everything again and reading some thoughts from other people on the internet I agree with you, there have been some realy good things.

 

Another thing a lot of people seem to forget:

This is not a final codex or whatever that we need to play with for the next 5 years. It is just to kickstart the new edition for everone and they left a lot of room for improvements and fun stuff like the FW keyword.

 

8th edition, I am ready for you

[Charlo]

Yep!

 

I think everyone saw the sicarans and overreacted, but in truth they are just the main losers of the update and even then will murder hordes and give us some morale shenanigans and a bit of forward deployment.

 

I've got 30 Skitarii, 4 Robots, 2 Smiths, 6 Kataphron, a Dominus and Cawl being painted ready to fly into 8th edition in a solid state.

 

PLUS in reality using the new faction rules, until the codex comes out and we get major bonuses for doing so, we can always pop in some tricked out imperial guard LoW which our enginseers can indeed repair ;)

 

Or some Aeronautica from the Forge World books when they come out.

 

OR even one of our very own God Engines...

 

Now brothers & sisters, all together for the cog...

 

011101110110000101110010...

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Charlo

[BassWave]

Ughh, the more I read our rules, the more irritated I get. We don't even get canticles unless EVERY unit in the detachment has that rule. So the only way to bring a knight or any other non mechanicus unit without severely nerfing our army is to bring another detachment. I have yet to see another multi faction army suffer that way.

 

Also, the tech wizards of the mechanicus can no longer fix their own creations unless it's specifically mechanicus. Sorry knights.

 

I haven't given up on Admech, and Im definitely going to be playing them a lot, but a lot of my excitement for the new edition has decreased. Definitely more on the cautiously optimistic side now.

[Charlo]

Ughh, the more I read our rules, the more irritated I get. We don't even get canticles unless EVERY unit in the detachment has that rule. So the only way to bring a knight or any other non mechanicus unit without severely nerfing our army is to bring another detachment. I have yet to see another multi faction army suffer that way.

 

Also, the tech wizards of the mechanicus can no longer fix their own creations unless it's specifically mechanicus. Sorry knights.

 

I haven't given up on Admech, and Im definitely going to be playing them a lot, but a lot of my excitement for the new edition has decreased. Definitely more on the cautiously optimistic side now.

 

To be fair, anyone can just take a single LoW detachment at no penalty! Sucks the Knights don't have our faction but not a huge deal.

 

At least we can freely mix skitarii and cult and still get canticles.

[gilt_imp]

Initially I was a bit confused by the apparent lack of synergy between Ad Mech and Imperial Knights. Especially how previously there were formations etc that let Ad Mech include Knights.

 

Ad Mech get <Forge World> keywords, and Imperial Knights get <Household> keywords. Ad Mech Knight houses can however hail from a Forge World. Like for example ‘Taranis’, which hails from Mars, which obviously is the Mother of all Forge Worlds.  While I’m not saying, we should be able to use ‘Mars’ as a Knight Household keyword, I’m wondering about future rules development and if there might be a link or bridge between the two.

[ronin_cse]

Why has cognis become a downside instead of a bonus, seems like it's actively trying to stop ballistarii moving whereas before it was just a small benefit to snap fire (and therefore against flyers)...

 

Because you can't fire a weapon if you advance, the equivalent of running, but with cognis you can just at -2 to hit

Initially I was a bit confused by the apparent lack of synergy between Ad Mech and Imperial Knights. Especially how previously there were formations etc that let Ad Mech include Knights.

 

Ad Mech get <Forge World> keywords, and Imperial Knights get <Household> keywords. Ad Mech Knight houses can however hail from a Forge World. Like for example ‘Taranis’, which hails from Mars, which obviously is the Mother of all Forge Worlds.  While I’m not saying, we should be able to use ‘Mars’ as a Knight Household keyword, I’m wondering about future rules development and if there might be a link or bridge between the two.

 

Yeah but Taranis is still the Household they just happen to be based on Mars. Even though they are closely allied with Mars they aren't actually part of the Mars Forgeworld faction

Edited June 1, 2017 by ronin_cse

[gilt_imp]

^

Obviously.

But the way that the keywords go, all I’m thinking is maybe there might be future room to expand on them? Or even define a difference between Imperial Knights and Adeptus Mechanicus Knights?

 

Anyway it’s probably one of those things that when in fiction is clear but translates differently to rules.

[ronin_cse]

^

Obviously.

But the way that the keywords go, all I’m thinking is maybe there might be future room to expand on them? Or even define a difference between Imperial Knights and Adeptus Mechanicus Knights?

 

Anyway it’s probably one of those things that when in fiction is clear but translates differently to rules.

 

I expect we'll see something like this when a real Ad Mech codex comes out

[Charlo]

Knights will probably be in the codex... And I bet the Forge World Knights will have some nice Forge World based Key Words.

 

ATROPOS.

[Feral_80]

I'm not so sure that Sicarians are so lame now. Both are almost 50% of their previous points cost, and both seem to have their uses.

 

Infiltrators ca be a great annoyance, and can pop up anywhere. Rustalkers, keep them cheap and they will dish out mortal wounds...not bad at all. With 3A each (4 the princeps) at WS 3+, at just 20 points/model, they seem rather interesting to me. Sure they will die quickly if you don't use them properly, but that has always been their peculiarity.

 

Actually, I look forward to using one unit each, for almost the same price of an old unit of Infiltrators...

Edited June 1, 2017 by Feral_80

[dogfender]

Saying that these are just 'kickstarter' rules is nothing but an excuse for them pushing an incomplete product to market. This means 1 of two things things.

 

1) Things will change when a AM book comes out, which means that they don't actually have the rules ironed out which means what you think is good now may not be viable later. Call it inconsistency.

 

2) Things stay the same/ similar, which means what you have is how things will be with tweaks here and there. Meaning you just got shafted.

[MajorNese]

What I find weird, no one is talking about the ridiculously cheap skitarii weapons. 4p arc rifles are auto includes, unless taking 14p plasma. 4p power swords too, as sergeants don't even give up their radium rifle to take it, and no longer lose the +1A for another pistol. Magnetizing skitarii sergeants is extremely easy, in response to the leaks I increased the magneto sergeant number to 4.

 

 

Saying that these are just 'kickstarter' rules is nothing but an excuse for them pushing an incomplete product to market. This means 1 of two things things.

 

1) Things will change when a AM book comes out, which means that they don't actually have the rules ironed out which means what you think is good now may not be viable later. Call it inconsistency.

 

2) Things stay the same/ similar, which means what you have is how things will be with tweaks here and there. Meaning you just got shafted.

...or number 3, they recognized that all those cross-referencing special rules created insane unbeatable combos that screwed over the entire game mechanic. Now they start all factions from scratch with limited synergies, see how the balancing plays out, and increase the level of detail (options, special rules) gradually, without reverting to the pre-8th cluster:cuss of weekly changing detachment/formation/faction rules. At least the invisible librarius conclave grav centurion deathstar and similar concepts are gone, call it inconsistency, but it makes the game playable.

 

PLUS in reality using the new faction rules, until the codex comes out and we get major bonuses for doing so, we can always pop in some tricked out imperial guard LoW which our enginseers can indeed repair

What a coincidence... *laughs in binary*

...at least until my Ordinatus and/or Atrapos get rules...

http://abload.de/img/aimg_2474wqsm8.jpg

Edited June 1, 2017 by MajorNese

[Feral_80]

Do I understand it right that now canticles are activated "at the start of each battle turn", i.e. not *your* turn, but instead before any player goes? Could really help tactically. Sometimes going second meant losing units due to lack of protective canticles.

[Silentz]

Do I understand it right that now canticles are activated "at the start of each battle turn", i.e. not *your* turn, but instead before any player goes? Could really help tactically. Sometimes going second meant losing units due to lack of protective canticles.

Huh, good spot! You can get Shroudpsalm going on opponents turn 1 if they go first.

[Spanish_Muffin]

A Tech-Priest Dominus and x3 Onager Dunecrawler's with Icarus and Stubbers are probably going to find their way into my Imperial Knights list as a Spearhead Detachment more often than not.

The amount of dakka that brings to the tables alongside a handful of knights is seriously tempting.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Spanish_Muffin

[Charlo]

Saying that these are just 'kickstarter' rules is nothing but an excuse for them pushing an incomplete product to market. This means 1 of two things things.

 

1) Things will change when a AM book comes out, which means that they don't actually have the rules ironed out which means what you think is good now may not be viable later. Call it inconsistency.

 

2) Things stay the same/ similar, which means what you have is how things will be with tweaks here and there. Meaning you just got shafted.

 

Dude, come on!

 

They are by all means a complete product.

 

They could leave the rules here and we could all play with our armies as is. It just has a little less things than 7th.