Iron Hands and the Primaris Marines

[Filius]

Dear Clans of Medusa,

 

although I am not an Iron Hands Player and probably never will be, the Clans of Medusa have special Place in the Cathedral of my Veneration of the Dark Millennium, and I am curious how you see the Arrival of the Primaris Marines.

 

And please: Purely fluffwise!

 

Flesh born from Machines (which is currently the common interpretation), from your Allies from Mars?
Do welcome them?

Do you think there are any problems in integrating them into the Clans?

 

Questions like these wander my Mind Circuits …

 

Thanks in advance!

[Vel'Cona]

I feel that they are a fine addition to the ranks of the IH.  Since they're a product of the genius of a well-respected and venerable Techpriest (Cawl), I think they should be considered a great fit for the IH.  Even more relevant is the fact that they are born directly on Mars, making them unique paragons.  The only caveat here is that they still need to adhere to the traditions of the chapter (replacement of the right hand with a bionic one), though I suspect as "newer" recruits they will be eager for acceptance by their host clans.  :)

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

.....alternatively, the Red Talons were involved in the War of the False Primarch which presumably had something to do with a supposed 'Primarch' re-appearing and a host of Chapters that pledged their loyalty to him. The Talons and related Chapters could just see Gulliman's Indomitus Crusade as the same thing.

 

Plus the Iron Hands have had plenty of experience with biologically 'enhanced' Astartes before - Fabius Bile's Terrata.

 

There's a number of ways the Iron Hands and their successors could react to this, and with the factitious nature of the Clans, we could see a similar situation to the Morae Schism.

[Filius]

I feel that they are a fine addition to the ranks of the IH.

 

That's comforting to know, thanks!

 

There's a number of ways the Iron Hands and their successors could react to this, and with the factitious nature of the Clans, we could see a similar situation to the Morae Schism.

 

And what do you think, would be the best reaction? What would you most like to see happening … ?

[Machine God]

I feel that they are a fine addition to the ranks of the IH. Since they're a product of the genius of a well-respected and venerable Techpriest (Cawl), I think they should be considered a great fit for the IH. Even more relevant is the fact that they are born directly on Mars, making them unique paragons. The only caveat here is that they still need to adhere to the traditions of the chapter (replacement of the right hand with a bionic one), though I suspect as "newer" recruits they will be eager for acceptance by their host clans. :)

@Vel'Cona - It is the Left the Sinister hand of Weak Flesh that is replaced with a holy bionic replacement!

 

The fluff is garbage though, on par with That Book!

 

We've been fooled by Mars plenty of times - Iron Hands novel;-)

Just saying.

 

So yes they are a bit bigger but they are still Flesh!

 

Although Primaris legs may be good for proper Centurion conversions;-)

 

Edit: Typo.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Scion of Ferrus

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Guilliman is a false idol.  Cawl is a liar and a puppet of darker powers.  These vat-grown abominations fly in the face of the Chapter and its traditions.  They are not Medusans.  They do not know the harsh and unforgiving existence on our sunless, shifting world or the life of austerity it produces where only the strongest thrive.  Let weaker sons of lesser fathers accept these tainted gifts.  We are Iron Hands.  We don't need them.  We are the strong.

[Vel'Cona]

 

@Vel'Cona - It is the Left the Sinister hand of Weak Flesh that is replaced with a holy bionic replacement!

 

Apparently my alignment cogitator has been damaged.  I must make an appointment with the adepts at once! 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

I feel that they are a fine addition to the ranks of the IH.

 

That's comforting to know, thanks!

 

There's a number of ways the Iron Hands and their successors could react to this, and with the factitious nature of the Clans, we could see a similar situation to the Morae Schism.

 

And what do you think, would be the best reaction? What would you most like to see happening … ?

 

 

Ideally - the entire range I've suggested - this could be a really cool opportunity to re-introduce the antagonism between Clans that was mentioned in the Chapter's older lore - the return of a Primarch and introduction of enhanced marines seems like a significant enough event to produce a split in opinion within the Chapter.

 

It could also be used to reconcile the difference in background with regard to the Chapter we've seen over the past few years - the more Codex-compliant, emotionally-minded and less augmented Astartes we've seen with Kardan Stronos (i.e the Chapter as represented by more recent lore) siding with Guilliman and accepting the Primus Marines, whilst the colder, more individualistic compulsive-enhancers which adhere more to the older renditions of the background spurn Robute and his 'gifts'.

 

Maybe even have the Chapter completely fragmenting into two or more factions, with their Successors choosing sides or taking their own path.

 

Edit: now I've had this idea marinating in the ole' cranium for a while, here's how I could see the successors alignments:

 

Brazen Claws: Due to severe losses during their campaign of vengeance in the Eye, I could see them accepting the Primus Astartes as a way to save the Chapter.

 

Iron Lords: Apparently notably stern & xenophobic, this might indicate a mindset that wouldn't be especially well-disposed towards the Primus Astartes - then again, they could be seen as a saving grace in their increasingly desperate attempts to prevent Hive Fleet Kraken from assimilating the Barghesi.

 

Red Talons: owing to their involvement in the War of the False Primarch, I'd imagine they wouldn't greet Guilliman's return & his host particularly well.

 

Sons of Medusa: I'd imagine they could go either way in line with the Iron Hands, and with the similarities between the two Chapters, I could imagine the 3 War Clans separating in a similar manner.

 

Steel Confessors: Due to their origin, I'd imagine that the Confessor's first loyalty would be to Mars, so they'd be on-board with the Primus Astartes from the get-go.

 

There's barely anything on the Iron Lords, so I have no idea with regards to them.

 

One interesting facet of this whole discussion is whether any of the new Chapters created by Guilliman use geneseed from Legions other than the Ultramarines - if an entirely new Chapter of Primarus Astartes turns up possessing Iron Hands geneseed, I think things could get real interesting.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Iron Hands Fanatic

[RandomMarine]

Primaris marines are just more weak flesh.

[Vel'Cona]

 

Sons of Medusa: I'd imagine they could go either way in line with the Iron Hands, and with the similarities between the two Chapters, I could imagine the 3 War Clans separating in a similar manner.

 

If nothing else I could see the SoM pushing for the new armour first and leaving the genetic modification on the cutting room floor.  We definitely love our tech-toys, however we can acquire them!  :D

 

Primaris marines are just more weak flesh.

 

This is an excellent point; in reality while the Primaris may be "superior" to a "normal" Astartes, that superiority is wholly flesh-based and is (to a son of Ferrus Manus, anyway) fallible.  As GW have hinted, while the Primaris Marines may be more resistant to the taint of Chaos, they're not Grey Knights and are still susceptible to corruption.  Therefore, the IH may not care that Primaris Marines are genetically superior since they'll just be replacing most of that weak flesh eventually anyway.

[Claws and Effect]

What I know of the Iron Hands suggests that they will be one of the Chapters that is hostile to the idea of Primaris marines.

 

It could be viewed as insulting to suggest that these creations of flesh are stronger than their cybernetic augmetics.

[Filius]

… to play the Advocatus Diaboli: Buuut it's stronger flesh than the flesh of the "normal" Marines. Aaand … they have stronger (non-flesh) Armour and stronger Weapons …

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Flesh is still flesh, and the flesh is still weak.

[40Kcollector]

From what I understand is that these primaris marines have the geneseed of Ferrus in them, and they were created on Mars. The fact that they are not from Medusa might be a problem though.

 

They look great I just don't know how I will incorporate they into my existing IH force yet. I'll no doubt watch a few games with them in it and see how they fit in.

[Filius]

Flesh is still flesh, and the flesh is still weak.

 

Okay … theeen I'll put it the other way round: More Flesh is also the Chance to replace it with more Machines!

[40Kcollector]

 

Flesh is still flesh, and the flesh is still weak.

 

 

Okay … theeen I'll put it the other way round: More Flesh is also the Chance to replace it with more Machines! ;):D

"Brother Iron Hand I see you are in need of some Bionics, you should see an Iron Father and see what they have to offer you for your weakness"

[Filius]

 

 

Flesh is still flesh, and the flesh is still weak.

 

Okay … theeen I'll put it the other way round: More Flesh is also the Chance to replace it with more Machines!

"Brother Iron Hand I see you are in need of some Bionics, you should see an Iron Father and see what they have to offer you for your weakness"

 

 

Iron Father to Primaris Marine: "Well my very young Son, your forearm has the size of a trees' trunk, how amazing! We can replace your arm with a Stormbolter and a Rocket-Launcher aaand a Flamer … I have never done this before, but it's very tempting and would surely please the Omnissia, as you'll certainly agree, don't you?!"

[Vel'Cona]

 

Iron Father to Primaris Marine: "Well my very young Son, your forearm has the size of a trees' trunk, how amazing! We can replace your arm with a Stormbolter and a Rocket-Launcher aaand a Flamer … I have never done this before, but it's very tempting and would surely please the Omnissia, as you'll certainly agree, don't you?!"

 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/727/138/00e.jpg

[Machine God]

I've seen a new Dreadnought:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333968-space-marine-redemptor-dreadnought-even-in-death/

[Morovir]

To put it simply:

 

"You will never trust. You will never dilute your strength by fighting alongside another who is not of Medusa. We are the Iron Tenth. We alone are strong."

 

 

(Grey Talon, by Chris Wraight)

[Token]

Cool Dreadnought, i could perhaps use it as my Chaptermaster.

[autek mor]

IF we do get mauled like certain other famous chapters then i sincerely hope that kardan stronos is killed in the process so we can go back to removing our flesh in peace.

 

as for the new recruits........while i am happy for the big homies on mars to bless us with these new toys, that amount of flesh just simply won't do. i can envision using them as cannon fodder to protect the more mechanical portions of my army.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I imagine the Iron Hands view the Primaris Marines the same way they view Astra Militarum units: despite potentially superior physical strength (see ogryns), their loyalty and competence are questionable, and they're more useful as expendable distractions to draw enemy fire, allowing the real soldiers (classical Iron Hands Marines) to accomplish the real mission with optimum efficiency.

[Iron Father Imeran Byon]

For my Clan Sorrgol, Primaris are no option.

 

a) While they are the blessed work of the Omnissiah, delivered though the sacred hands of a most powerful Archmagus on Mars, they're still a heap of flesh which is - in its essence - weak.

There may be different kinds of weakness: Xenos flesh being the weakest, human flesh being weaker than that of the Astartes and theirs maybe even weaker than the Primaris' flesh. But they're still weak, compared to the most sacred, iron body of the machine.

 

b) Simply augmenting them is not an option, either. Since they were born of Mars, and not Medusa, they're no true brothers to fill the ranks of the Iron Hands and (as Brother Morovir cited) as such not to be trusted to stay strong for the brothers left and right of them.

 

c) "Upgrading" (what a blasphemous word!) a venerated brother of the Iron Hands or their successor chapters to a Primaris is also out of the question, since their augmentations will not grow to the new form. These augmentations obviously can't be replaced - Omnissiah, forgive me the thought - since they're as much a part of the Space Marine that used them throughout his battles as the Space Marine's calculating conscience. So he might just as well be executed on the spot.

 

They will surely be valuable allies, but far cousins nonetheless.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Imeran