8th Edition Ultramarine Tactica and Unit discussion.

[Captain Idaho]

Yes the game is looking to be much healthier just because we can have these discussions.

 

I still think range will be important late game. I think winning games will be about which player dictates where the battles take place. If the objectives are messy scrums and Space Marines are attacking and counter attacking, being able to support from afar acts as a force multiplier.

 

Mobile firepower is an interesting thing to consider this edition. Centurions aren't THAT mobile with a move of 4. They're likely to be firmly in the middle of the board if they have Grav weapons.

 

However, you can put them further afield if you go with the other options and this results in a less vulnerable support unit.

[Schultzhoffen]

Agreed.

 

Although 4'' every turn increases the range of that grav cannon.

 

I feel as if I have to unlearn everything I've ever know and I came in at the tail end of 3rd.

 

The one thing my gut tells me, though, is that I need units that can put out a high volume of firepower.

 

I'm using bike vets with power weapons and storm shields and an ironclad dreadnought as my hammer.

 

A las cannon toting dread and stalkers look good, too.

 

Time will tell.

[Captain Idaho]

Stalkers look lovely. Considering that models with Fly are many of our danger enemies, Stalkers are hard counters.

 

I like the Hunter as it's accurate and all, but 1 shot vehicle needs to be cheap when you consider how many Lascannon shots things like Dreads get. Let alone Predators and the like.

 

What do people think about the Hunter?

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, I do hope this debate remains. It reminds me when a set of cards rotate in a TCG. The first two months are pretty wild, then the net-decking starts and the meta is dominated two the same few archtypes/decks. I hope we skip the latter part.

[Toxichobbit]

Yeh, so do I. It's looking promising so far though. I read a thread about which armies are the top 5 contendors for 8th. I think almost every army was mentioned at least once.

[Prot]

Well I got an Ultra game in and I found it interesting As I mentioned I am intentionally not using Guilliman because he's just too good for getting a feel for the army as a whole.

 

I played a long time Ork player and I used guide a good dose of Primaris units and it's honestly hard not to label them as very middle of the road.

 

The Inceptors felt like a Tau unit. Very hard hitting, but they largely overlap what vanilla units do, just for a lot of points, still they do it well.

 

Intercessors feel underwhelming. They are (once again) a 'good' unit. I used them to absorb assaults.

 

I know there's time to get a feel for these units but for options they are really vanilla. And I don't know why but t I thought all Primaris were T5 which would have been huge in this game.

 

My feelings about the change to Typhoon Speeders is still very positive. I screwed up though... I had one turn of shooting with it and my opponent pooped his pants and promptly made a high priority of it Too bad... if I was thinking I would have parked it far in the corner within range of the lieutenant.

 

I think missiles are my favourite common weapon. The Grav cents were okay, but Grav kind of stunk for the points and the Hurricane nipples were amazing. They HAD to be. I was nearly over run by T2.

 

The Ork Battlewagon with 15 tankbustas feels like a mini deathstar. Any vehicle is toast I think if this unit wants it gone. The exchange of devastation in this game was the highest I've had in 8 th.

 

Tigurius was huge, so was my apothecary. He revived 2 dead centurions during the game.

 

A Stormhawk Interceptor was a super star, but almost everything is punished for moving with heavy weapons and you really feel that. But without firing archs, the Supersonic rule is much easier to deal with than some male it sound. Ork Dakja jests (he had 2) are really gross.

 

I basically had the Stormhawk. And my HQs, some scouts and a few Intercessors and all he had was 7-8 Grots grabbing an objective.

 

A very strong counter to battlewagons and flyers is actually Smite. With Thousand Sons I'm used to making that work. Ultramarines don't rely on it near as much but in this game Tigurius was the difference maker smiting the battlewagon for 6 wounds and that pretty much won me the game.

[Ishagu]

So I've had a look at some of the FW units, and I'll start with 3 of the popular ones.

 

Sicaran Tank - Quite pricey imo, but far superior to a Predator which is the closest comparison. It also fills the niche of something like a Stalker.

My loadout comes in at a high 290 points.

This includes 2 Las Cannons, a Heavy Bolter and the Twin Accelerator Autocannon. Reduce the cost by 30 points if you switch the Las Cannons for additional Heavy Bolters.

 

The Twin Accelerator Autocannon is Assault 8, Str7, Ap-1, 2 damage. It suffers no BS penalty for moving, and it has a rule that prevents the negative modifier when targeting flyers. Also, on a roll of 6 to wound the ap becomes -3.

I think this is a strong contender to fill the role of both a Predator and a Stalker. It's does the job of both better in truth.

 

Another unit that I'm very fond of is the Deredeo. This is looking very, very strong. 5+Invul, 4+ in CC, 14 wounds.

A popular variant that includes an Anvillus Autocannon, Ailos Missile and Twin Heavy Bolter comes in at only 232.

The model has bs 2+, and the Anvillus Autocannon is Heavy 8, ap-1, 2 damage. Once you add the extra firepower from the other guns this becomes a very powerful unit that might perhaps be underpriced when you factor in all the rules.

 

Lastly, the extra rules for a Relic Contemptor. What sets it apart from the normal Index variant is the extra wound, and the fact that it's 9" movement speed is not reduced as it takes damage. This is a big deal imo. Also it gets access to nice weapons like Plasma blasters, Grav guns, etc.

[Frater Cornelius]

Where does this info come from? Also, what is the stat line of the Sicaran and Deredeo?

[Ishagu]

You can buy the epub versions of the FW Index books :-)

 

Sicaran is movement 14",bs3+ t7 14 wounds, 3+ save

 

Deredeo has same statline however movement is only 7" and bs is 2+

[Bmseifer]

Ga i have the physical books ordered and on the way. But I'm almost buying the digital version as well because I can't wait

[Frater Cornelius]

You can buy the epub versions of the FW Index books :-)

 

Sicaran is movement 14",bs3+ t7 14 wounds, 3+ save

 

Deredeo has same statline however movement is only 7" and bs is 2+

 

Interesting. So the Sicaran is still a glorified Pred with more options for engagement. Though the power gap has definitely decreased between the Sicaran and Pred, I recon one Sicaran is always nice to have.

[Seahawk]

Hmm, the missiles allow the centurions to run and still shoot. As well, the range jives perfectly with the heavy bolters, allowing a unit of missile/bolters to effectively engage the entire board by sitting in the middle of it, and against any target with decent success.

[crazyterran]

Keep in mind for the FW units:

 

Many of them are Relics, so you will need to have equal to or more non-Relic units in the same battlefield role as your relics.

 

So you cannot straight up replace your Predators with Sicarans, or your Predators upgraded to Deimos Predators for the extra wound for +3 points.

 

Slightly more restrictive than the old Master of the Armoury rule...

[Grim Dog Studios]

I could be wrong but the datasheets for the sicaran that I saw on dakka before they got taken down placed them as elites and not heavy support. Were they elites in the old IA book?

[Ishagu]

No they were Heavy.

Well spotted!

 

Well, it means that including a unit as basic as an Apothecary unlocks the Sicaran/Deredeo :-)

[crazyterran]

It also means you get three more slots to work with in a batallion...

[Bmseifer]

No they were Heavy.

Well spotted!

 

Well, it means that including a unit as basic as an Apothecary unlocks the Sicaran/Deredeo :-)

 

Or an Astropath with laspistol for 15pts

[Ishagu]

Yeah, or the Eversor Assasin I plan to take in every list :-P

[crazyterran]

Should run a culexus and use it to tie up large units for two or three turns.

 

Buncha Gaunts just stuck, most of them out of range to hit the Culexus, trying to get the sixes to hit, then the fives to wound...

[Grim Dog Studios]

Im just glad because it makes it a lot easier to convert my 30k marines over to 40k to play 8th edition. I intended on running two sicarans (already have one completed) and with them being in the elites slot it makes it far easier to do.

[Prot]

I've always liked the Sicaran but 290.,, youch, that's steep. I wonder if a flyer might be a better idea... like the stormraven. I know I sure enjoyed the Stormhawk. Basically LoS and range feels like a non issue. ( but it is penalized for firing heavies on the move ).

[LordDrakon]

Our fliers are great on there own with power of the machine spirit or interceptor they either don't care about moving or get a +1 to hit ground targets which balances out the move and shoot penalty 

[Ishagu]

I think the Deredeo is highly competitive. 232 points for a lot of firepower and Invul saves. Even it moves it's still hitting on a 3+

 

I'm toying around with this list:

 

-Sicarius

-10 Tactical Marines, Combi Plasma, Plasma, Grav Cannon

-10 Tactical Marines, Combi Plasma, Plasma, Grav Cannon

-5 Intercessor Marines

 

-Eversor Assasin

-Apothecary

-Deredeo Dreadnought, Anvillus Autocannon, Ailos Missile, Twin Heavy Bolter

 

-3 Centurions, Grav Cannons, Hurricane Bolters

-Landraider, Twin LasCannons, Twin Heavy Bolter, Multi-Melta

 

-Roboute Guilliman

[Frater Cornelius]

Why on earth would you run Intecessors instead of something else, like Scouts?

[Ishagu]

It's either them or some Tyranic War Veterans.

I have 105 points to burn lol