Dark Imperium Spoilers/Plot Summary (Read Along)

[Conn Eremon]

I don't personally recall the T'au being anything more than referenced in passing.

[DogWelder]

I would love for Guilliman and the Utramarines to fight the Tau. I've always wanted an Ultramar vs. Tau Empire scenario to see which of the two mini-Empires would win. Also figure out whose strategic genius is greater: Puretide's or Guillimans.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I would love for Guilliman and the Utramarines to fight the Tau. I've always wanted an Ultramar vs. Tau Empire scenario to see which of the two mini-Empires would win. Also figure out whose strategic genius is greater: Puretide's or Guillimans.

 

 

Guilliman would annihilate the T'au.

 

Not even their "Author Armor Save" would survive 3 seconds of a competent Imperial General waging war against them and not acting completely out of character...Guilliman would eat them for breakfast.

[DogWelder]

 

I would love for Guilliman and the Utramarines to fight the Tau. I've always wanted an Ultramar vs. Tau Empire scenario to see which of the two mini-Empires would win. Also figure out whose strategic genius is greater: Puretide's or Guillimans.

 

 

Guilliman would annihilate the T'au.

 

Not even their "Author Armor Save" would survive 3 seconds of a competent Imperial General waging war against them and not acting completely out of character...Guilliman would eat them for breakfast.

 

 

I think they are much more dangerous than one would think. The 8th Ultramarines Company as well as elements from several other frist founding Chapters couldn't crack Farsight's defense on Dalyth during the 2nd Sphere expansion. During the 3rd Sphere expansion, Shadowsun utterly humiliated the Imperial Guard, inflicting millions of Guard losses and horrendous tank losses while losing at most hundreds of Tau per battle. She then proceeded to take on a company of White Scars and the entire raven Guard Chapter and win, personally killing the Raven Guard Chapter master and taking one Imperial system after another without stopping.

 

Even during the Zeist Campaign where Cato Sicarius led about a dozen Ultramarine Successor Chapters against Shadowsun's advance, he was unable to prevent her from achieving a strategic victory as the Tau gobbled up several undefended systems while the Space Marines were busy retaking Zeist.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

 

I would love for Guilliman and the Utramarines to fight the Tau. I've always wanted an Ultramar vs. Tau Empire scenario to see which of the two mini-Empires would win. Also figure out whose strategic genius is greater: Puretide's or Guillimans.

 

 

Guilliman would annihilate the T'au.

 

Not even their "Author Armor Save" would survive 3 seconds of a competent Imperial General waging war against them and not acting completely out of character...Guilliman would eat them for breakfast.

 

 

I think they are much more dangerous than one would think. The 8th Ultramarines Company as well as elements from several other frist founding Chapters couldn't crack Farsight's defense on Dalyth during the 2nd Sphere expansion. During the 3rd Sphere expansion, Shadowsun utterly humiliated the Imperial Guard, inflicting millions of Guard losses and horrendous tank losses while losing at most hundreds of Tau per battle. She then proceeded to take on a company of White Scars and the entire raven Guard Chapter and win, personally killing the Raven Guard Chapter master and taking one Imperial system after another without stopping.

 

Even during the Zeist Campaign where Cato Sicarius led about a dozen Ultramarine Successor Chapters against Shadowsun's advance, he was unable to prevent her from achieving a strategic victory as the Tau gobbled up several undefended systems while the Space Marines were busy retaking Zeist.

 

 

Yea, after reading the Warzone Damocles book I fully stand by my statement of  " not acting completely out of character."

 

The White Scars and Raven Guard were turned into complete buffoons in order to make the T'au look awesome. It was pretty painful to read.

I remember one of the last chancer books have some fire warriors just about crapping their pants off of the description of a single hive world...which the Imperium has hundreds of.

 

the T'au exist because GW wants them to. If the Imperium took them as a serious threat they'd be squatted out of existence.

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

I would love for Guilliman and the Utramarines to fight the Tau. I've always wanted an Ultramar vs. Tau Empire scenario to see which of the two mini-Empires would win. Also figure out whose strategic genius is greater: Puretide's or Guillimans.

 

 

Guilliman would annihilate the T'au.

 

Not even their "Author Armor Save" would survive 3 seconds of a competent Imperial General waging war against them and not acting completely out of character...Guilliman would eat them for breakfast.

 

 

I think they are much more dangerous than one would think. The 8th Ultramarines Company as well as elements from several other frist founding Chapters couldn't crack Farsight's defense on Dalyth during the 2nd Sphere expansion. During the 3rd Sphere expansion, Shadowsun utterly humiliated the Imperial Guard, inflicting millions of Guard losses and horrendous tank losses while losing at most hundreds of Tau per battle. She then proceeded to take on a company of White Scars and the entire raven Guard Chapter and win, personally killing the Raven Guard Chapter master and taking one Imperial system after another without stopping.

 

Even during the Zeist Campaign where Cato Sicarius led about a dozen Ultramarine Successor Chapters against Shadowsun's advance, he was unable to prevent her from achieving a strategic victory as the Tau gobbled up several undefended systems while the Space Marines were busy retaking Zeist.

 

 

Yea, after reading the Warzone Damocles book I fully stand by my statement of  " not acting completely out of character."

 

The White Scars and Raven Guard were turned into complete buffoons in order to make the T'au look awesome. It was pretty painful to read.

I remember one of the last chancer books have some fire warriors just about crapping their pants off of the description of a single hive world...which the Imperium has hundreds of.

 

the T'au exist because GW wants them to. If the Imperium took them as a serious threat they'd be squatted out of existence.

 

 

I'm totally and completely agree withJarl Kjaran Coldheart the T'au exist because GW wants them to

All the stuff from GW/BL about tau - mainly Damocles warzone is so covered in plot armored tau and brainless Space Marines fighting them that Justin D Hill 'Storm of Damocles' novel where IMPERIUM ACTUALLY WON OVER TAU AT LAST - is a fething miracle in itself.

 

And that's why Tau would never fight versus Guilliman. Cause GW  don't want them to lose ever.

P.S. Abaddon should be in envy of Shadowsun plot armoured 'genius'

[Kelborn]

Didn't the Black Templars won against the Tau as well?

 

Besides...although being a little Tau fan by myself, I agree on the incredible plot armor. I've read Damocles and tbh I only enjoyed Guy Haley's story. Rest ranged from mediocre to seriously?!

[HeritorA]

Didn't the Black Templars won against the Tau as well?

 

Besides...although being a little Tau fan by myself, I agree on the incredible plot armor. I've read Damocles and tbh I only enjoyed Guy Haley's story. Rest ranged from mediocre to seriously?!

 

Indeed. Haley story was unique - mainly cause it was not a straight 'tau' story. but the first story from the insight of the tau auxillary forces + twist in the end.

 

And it wasn't a direct bolter porn usual for tau: we have even bigger mech, with bigger guns, shooting from the other side of the planet with overkill to everything (from Titans to Lunar cruisers)

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

Well... Daemon Primarchs are Daemon Princes elevated from the base material of Primarchs

 

The difference is like that between an Astartes and an Astartes Daemon Prince.

 

I think Daemon-hood conveys a massive power boost.

 

Now, Daemon-hood should be distinguished from Chaos corruption. The average CSM may not have a significant advantage over the average SM.

 

Of course, a Chaos Lord brimming with Warp power is another matter... And probably closer to a Daemon Prince

To be fair, every special character from the loyalist Astartes has taken killed a demon prince or two. I mean, at this stage it would be a poor excuse for a Chapter champion to not have killed at least one demon Prince in their lives.

 

Cato Sicarius took down Kor Megron, Calgar took down Ann'grath and another Demon Prince in a Space Hulk, Uriel killed Mkar (permanently), I'm sure Lysander has killed one or two...its not that big of a deal.

The only reason that Wardius Sicarius defeated Kor Megron (Daemon Princes SHOULD have high pain tolerance)...

 

...is that A GUARDSMAN hit him with a BAYONET!

 

I call BULL:cuss ON THAT!!!

[HeritorA]

Didn't the Black Templars won against the Tau as well?

 

Besides...although being a little Tau fan by myself, I agree on the incredible plot armor. I've read Damocles and tbh I only enjoyed Guy Haley's story. Rest ranged from mediocre to seriously?!

 

Also I quite forgot about that BL Templars victory - could you remind me please about that. Which story is that? Where it take place? It's not in the Damocles anthology about Agrellan war- right?

[Kelborn]

Something like Taros as the planets name?

Think it was a FW index campaign

Edited August 7, 2017 by Kelborn

[DogWelder]

Something like Taros as the planets name?

Think it was a FW index campaign

 

I think you mean the Battle of Nimbosa

 

"In the Nimbosa Crusade, the Black Templars and Imperial Fists fought alongside other Space Marines Chapters to reclaim the world of Nimbosa from the Tau after the third sphere expansion. The initial battles with the Tau took place in space aboard the orbitals the aliens had locked in geo-stationary orbit around Nimbosa. The Black Templars' Strike Cruiser Dorn's Wrath used its speed to evade the incoming fire and close to attack range. Using boarding torpedoes and Thunderhawk gunships it penetrated the hull of the target, designated Orbital Primus, and allowed the household of Castellan Folkert to board.

The Tau Fire Warriors stationed abourd Orbital Primus turned the corridors of the space station into killing grounds with a warren of deadly ambushes, but the Black Templar force countered this by splitting up into small squads and attacked the defenders from multiple directions, using grenades and chainswords to smash their way through the bulkheads. This enabled them to outflank the defending Tau forces, who were pitiful at close combat, and crush the resistance. After fighting their way through to the gunnery controls of the orbital, the Marines were able to turn the guns of the station on the other orbitals. This, combined with the assaults of the Imperial Navy, was too much for the remaining orbitals to withstand. Meanwhile, the Ultramarines first company smashed into the defending Tau garrison, eliminating the Tau's anti air turrets and making short work of the Tau leaders. The campaign ended with the successful recapture of Nimbosa and the destruction of the entire Tau garrison."

 

Still, it took the entire first company of the Ultramarines and an entire Black Templar Crusade to retake just one recently conquered world from a Tau garrison. Imagine if Shadowsun or Farsight had been there. Also Black Templars using Tau weapons against them? Heh, makes it a bit hypocritical when they lecture other Chapters about using xenotech. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by DogWelder

[Kelborn]

Yeah right. It was Nimbosa. The other one I mentioned was about the Raptors and Avenging Sons being beaten by the Tau on Taros.

[HeritorA]

 

Something like Taros as the planets name?

Think it was a FW index campaign

 

I think you mean the Battle of Nimbosa

 

"In the Nimbosa Crusade, the Black Templars and Imperial Fists fought alongside other Space Marines Chapters to reclaim the world of Nimbosa from the Tau after the third sphere expansion. The initial battles with the Tau took place in space aboard the orbitals the aliens had locked in geo-stationary orbit around Nimbosa. The Black Templars' Strike Cruiser Dorn's Wrath used its speed to evade the incoming fire and close to attack range. Using boarding torpedoes and Thunderhawk gunships it penetrated the hull of the target, designated Orbital Primus, and allowed the household of Castellan Folkert to board.

The Tau Fire Warriors stationed abourd Orbital Primus turned the corridors of the space station into killing grounds with a warren of deadly ambushes, but the Black Templar force countered this by splitting up into small squads and attacked the defenders from multiple directions, using grenades and chainswords to smash their way through the bulkheads. This enabled them to outflank the defending Tau forces, who were pitiful at close combat, and crush the resistance. After fighting their way through to the gunnery controls of the orbital, the Marines were able to turn the guns of the station on the other orbitals. This, combined with the assaults of the Imperial Navy, was too much for the remaining orbitals to withstand. Meanwhile, the Ultramarines first company smashed into the defending Tau garrison, eliminating the Tau's anti air turrets and making short work of the Tau leaders. The campaign ended with the successful recapture of Nimbosa and the destruction of the entire Tau garrison."

 

Still, it took the entire first company of the Ultramarines and an entire Black Templar Crusade to retake just one recently conquered world from a Tau garrison. Imagine if Shadowsun or Farsight had been there. Also Black Templars using Tau weapons against them? Heh, makes it a bit hypocritical when they lecture other Chapters about using xenotech. 

 

Thank you. I quite forgot that one.

Kelborn

Yeah I now remembered that one too - it was from the Forge World (Imperial Armour Volume Three - The Taros Campaign)

[Sete]

@Dogwelder the orbital platform could be Imperial. But hipocrisy is not something new on Templars.

 

They abhor witches yet worship one as a god :D

[DogWelder]

@Dogwelder the orbital platform could be Imperial. But hipocrisy is not something new on Templars.

 

They abhor witches yet worship one as a god

 

Even more hypocritical if the Emperor's evolution theory is to be believed. If the Emperor is the final stage of human evolution, then that would mean that all humans would eventually become psykers if all went as the Emperor intended.

[Vesper]

 

@Dogwelder the orbital platform could be Imperial. But hipocrisy is not something new on Templars.

 

They abhor witches yet worship one as a god

 

Even more hypocritical if the Emperor's evolution theory is to be believed. If the Emperor is the final stage of human evolution, then that would mean that all humans would eventually become psykers if all went as the Emperor intended.

 

The Emperor's evolution theory ? Never heard of that.

 

Actually, Mankind is evolving into a psychic race. And that's a major problem since that stirs them to the Warp. Mankind, being already corruptible, becomes a gateway to the Materium for the daemons. One of my favourite tidbit of lore is about a kid having a nosebleed on some random planet. A few days later, this planet falls to a daemonic incursion.

 

What makes sense, regarding the Emperor's plan, to me, is the old Realm of Chaos lore about him creating the Primarchs as incorruptible by Chaos (or so he thought) in order to create a new kind from them that would be incorruptible too. The Emperor was implied to get rid of Mankind to the benefit of a new kind of beings, that would be more like him. The Emperor of Man, lol.

 

Without the Emperor to prevent it, Mankind effectively evolves into a psychic race and the number of daemonic incursions keep increasing.

[HeritorA]

@Dogwelder the orbital platform could be Imperial. But hipocrisy is not something new on Templars.

 

They abhor witches yet worship one as a god

And hate psykers believing in saints

[Sete]

Saint Celestine is not a psyker tho ;)

[HeritorA]

Saint Celestine is not a psyker tho

 

She's not. Others are ;) (Thought of the Dows 'Red Path') at that moment :)

[Calas Typhon]

Saint Celestine is not a psyker tho

She had the power of divination in the new book "Shroud of Night"

 

So she had some Psyker traits to say the least 

 

Until she looses her head

Edited August 8, 2017 by Warsmith Kroeger

[Sete]

Well she is empowered by the Emperor.

[DogWelder]

Isn't the Emperor a warp entity as well though?

[Xisor]

I think, like how DI managed to make Mortarion *and* Guilliman *and* Typhus *and* Calgar look good, but by presenting them all as the best they can be.

 

I keep hearing people talk of how Calgar appeared resentful and whatnot (in less endearing words) - and it's true. But I thought it was a gorgeous psych depiction by Guy, and the parallel with Luther done expertly.

 

That is: How does someone who was superhumanly brilliant deal with being categorically outshone and made redundant? Once a Primaris of young Calgar's calibre comes along and gets enough experience... it's pretty much game over, unless the Chaos Gods are hidden behind a slightly too-small doorway. And even they aren't likely to be proven right.

 

The only "integrity" involved here is the sneak-peek we already know about: from Luther and Typhus, from Abaddon, from Khârn, from Kor Phaeron, from Bjorn, etc.

 

Primarchs may be brilliantly fantastic - but as characters they still have that Doctor Manhattan god-complex: they don't *get* the reality they live in. Even with the lures of Chaos, they get swept up in the storm and lose sight of the Great Game.

 

I'm hopeful that Guy gets to write more of that line - as it really opened my eyes to the nuance and interplay that could be done.

 

If they were to go with the best of The Beast Arises - cutting out the go-nowhere action scenes and skipping ahead from political bickering to shock twist to more bickering... *that* would be lovely.

 

Indeed - the action sequences on DI were the least satisfying bits for me. That's not unusual, but it is great to note that they weren't bad - I'd just prefer much more of the other stuff!

[Guest Triszin]

Saint Celestine is not a psyker tho

but isn't she a conduit of sorts.

 

I.E. subconcious thought and prayer emotional energy that believes in her to be a saint blessed by the emperor making her potentially a warp entity, where empyrean thought gives her power and always will so long as they believe in her?