Dark Imperium Spoilers/Plot Summary (Read Along)

[veterannoob]

Trilogy of post GS novels? Am I reading this right?

Trilogy of post- GS starting with battle 1: Guilliman vs. Morty

[Mellow]

What are these novels called? Who is writing them? I must read and contribute my money to this.

[DogWelder]

I think they are waiting for the results of the Fate of Konor campaign before writing the second book of the trilogy so it can be lore friendly.

[Mellow]

So Dark Imperium was the first one?

 

Waiting for a campaign before releasing further novels is very ... slow. (which I don't like as I don't play any games, I just read novels).

[HeritorA]

 

Trilogy of post GS novels? Am I reading this right?

Trilogy of post- GS starting with battle 1: Guilliman vs. Morty

 

as EXPECTED. Would have been better if Haley wrote something HH instead of that 'sorry' but young and boring DI setting with papa Buirlliman. Whome they made even more vanilla

 

I think they are waiting for the results of the Fate of Konor campaign before writing the second book of the trilogy so it can be lore friendly.

Exactly. But from the point Fate of Konor stand by now - it will results in the crushing Imperial victory

[Mellow]

I wouldn't say Dark Imperium was boring and vanilla. It added several interesting points to Guilliman, Cawl and the organisation of the 500 worlds.

 

It's not hugely revelatory for the entire setting but you can't really expect these events to turn the whole galaxy on its head ... can you?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

 

 

 

Trilogy of post GS novels? Am I reading this right?

Trilogy of post- GS starting with battle 1: Guilliman vs. Morty

as EXPECTED. Would have been better if Haley wrote something HH instead of that 'sorry' but young and boring DI setting with papa Buirlliman. Whome they made even more vanilla

Made Guilliman more vanilla?

I know we disagree often, but you're saying that the conflicted, angry and disgusted version of Guilliman is vanilla and you're being serious?

 

There is very little I like about 8th ed, even less I like about the Dark Imperium, but Guilliman coming to grips with the insanity of the shattered dream may be the best non-A DB/Wraight idea I've read from the Black Library

[Mellow]

HeritorA only appears to enjoy HH novels that stride forward towards the siege of Terra ... or in this case post GS novels that drive the plot line forward in galaxy spanning events featuring all famous characters in every scene.

 

It's all a bit odd. I like completely the opposite things and disagree frequently with him as well.

[HeritorA]

I wouldn't say Dark Imperium was boring and vanilla. It added several interesting points to Guilliman, Cawl and the organisation of the 500 worlds.

 

It's not hugely revelatory for the entire setting but you can't really expect these events to turn the whole galaxy on its head ... can you?

I meant Buirlliman - they intended to make him more believable. But in my eyes he became even more ....

 

'but you're saying that the conflicted, angry and disgusted version of Guilliman is vanilla and you're being serious?' - if that Buirlliman in DI is angry and conflicted - than Angron is laughing his tail right now.

 

'or in this case post GS novels that drive the plot line forward in galaxy spanning events featuring all famous characters in every scene.' - 120 years of Indomitus Crusade - what did they achieve? Give me at least one big name? Maybe I missed the point Typhus died?

[Mellow]

But you're looking for things that are "achieved" in a setting that is renowned for being stagnant.

 

You're literally interested in the wrong setting if you want progression or if you want things to be achieved or whatever.

[Ascanius]

Heritor, what they "achieved" is preventing the Five Hundred Worlds of Ultramar from being eradicated. Surely that's obvious? The whole point of the Imperium in 40K is eternal war because it's always, always, always going to be fundamentally on the defensive.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

I wouldn't say Dark Imperium was boring and vanilla. It added several interesting points to Guilliman, Cawl and the organisation of the 500 worlds.

 

It's not hugely revelatory for the entire setting but you can't really expect these events to turn the whole galaxy on its head ... can you?

I meant Buirlliman - they intended to make him more believable. But in my eyes he became even more ....

 

'but you're saying that the conflicted, angry and disgusted version of Guilliman is vanilla and you're being serious?' - if that Buirlliman in DI is angry and conflicted - than Angron is laughing his tail right now.

 

 

I doubt Angron is laughing at anything, as he's a slave to the powers of the Warp and his own rage.

 

 

If you read Dark Imperium and saw that Guilliman is coming to terms with the Emperor's reaction to him, the state of the Imperium, the failure of the Codex and the Imperium as a whole and couldnt grasp the utter anger and despair that radiated off of Guilliman, then I dont have the words to explain it to you.

[Ogun]

I really enjoyed this book, more so than I actually anticipated that I might. Hats off to Haley, he not only has linked this book nicely back to the Heresy era but also has been the brave soul who has broken new ground in the setting. In my opinion, he has a done a good job.

 

Guilliman:

Haley's decision to start with Thessala was probably one of his cleverest moves. Guilliman and his new Codex chapters are curb stomped by Fulgrim. Escape is the only Imperial achievement in the battle. From the off the entire concept of Guilliman as the rescuer of the 40k Imperium is undermined both in the minds of the reader and Guilliman himself. Guilliman in 40k is an angry, bitter man questioning some of the fundamental truths of his previous life. And despite the result of Thessala his anger is still pushing him towards personal confrontations with his brothers, in this case Mortarion. The question of Guilliman's fallibility then becomes a constant subtext to the novel, something the viewpoint sections of Decimus and Calgar conveyed very nicely. They can see problems and human failings in their Primarch, something that is particularly hard for Calgar who had deified Guilliman for centuries before his rebirth.

 

Guilliman and the Emperor:

Haley's prose is fairly workman like most of the time, but the bit where Guilliman likens the Emperor to a man in a cage being given a rasp is such an elegant description that it has stuck with me.

 

 

Why Ultramar?

Like a lot of people, I would like to see more areas of the Imperium being explored in the new period. That said, the decision to focus on Ultramar I think was wise. Ultramar was always held up to be the nice neighbourhood in the Imperium. Yes, there was that infestation of bugs a few centuries ago, but it was the least 40k bit of 40k. Haley does a very nice job of showing how that has changed. The description of the hospital world that Iax had become was probably one of my favourite bits in the novel. Ultramar, the nice bit of the Imperium, is now a daemon haunted ruin. The Grim Dark in 40k has now got a lot grimmer and darker.

 

Primaris:

These bits were the weakest in my opinion. The Greyshields are a very interesting concept, but the Inceptor company felt like a unit of caricatures. Decimus was so vanilla that if the novel was a cake recipe, Decimus would be the teaspoon of vanilla extract. They need some work in the sequel, and hopefully they will get it. That said, I rather liked the curve ball that Guilliman's thought's on the Primaris throws at Decimus' confident conviction that they are the future. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by Ogun

[HeritorA]

Heritor, what they "achieved" is preventing the Five Hundred Worlds of Ultramar from being eradicated. Surely that's obvious? The whole point of the Imperium in 40K is eternal war because it's always, always, always going to be fundamentally on the defensive.

Right - everything is based on Ultramar... That's the point of everything released so far. Ultramar is a dot on the map - Buirlliman went to save at the the end of the 120 years of CRUSADE.

And let's do not forget - 'HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CSM'...

Fluff makers in GW - please grow up and create mature content, not some adult faity tale

[Ogun]

 

Heritor, what they "achieved" is preventing the Five Hundred Worlds of Ultramar from being eradicated. Surely that's obvious? The whole point of the Imperium in 40K is eternal war because it's always, always, always going to be fundamentally on the defensive.

Right - everything is based on Ultramar... That's the point of everything released so far. Ultramar is a dot on the map - Buirlliman went to save at the the end of the 120 years of CRUSADE.

And let's do not forget - 'HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CSM'...

Fluff makers in GW - please grow up and create mature content, not some adult faity tale

 

 

Dark Imperium never mentioned the 'Hundreds of thousands of CSM', so that isn't really relevant to the book. Anyway, the CSM do recruit new members, and not just via Fabius Bile (in Blood Reaver and Void Stalker for example). Without all the vetting procedures they can probably also do it quicker than loyalist marines. There are also tens of thousands of renegade CSM. The CSM are not just the legionnaires who first fled into the Eye. And while hundreds of thousands sounds a lot, its worth remembering that there are meant to be a million loyalists in the galaxy.

[Sete]

But you're looking for things that are "achieved" in a setting that is renowned for being stagnant.

 

You're literally interested in the wrong setting if you want progression or if you want things to be achieved or whatever.

How ironic this is all things considered.

[HeritorA]

 

 

Heritor, what they "achieved" is preventing the Five Hundred Worlds of Ultramar from being eradicated. Surely that's obvious? The whole point of the Imperium in 40K is eternal war because it's always, always, always going to be fundamentally on the defensive.

Right - everything is based on Ultramar... That's the point of everything released so far. Ultramar is a dot on the map - Buirlliman went to save at the the end of the 120 years of CRUSADE.

And let's do not forget - 'HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CSM'...

Fluff makers in GW - please grow up and create mature content, not some adult faity tale

 

 

Dark Imperium never mentioned the 'Hundreds of thousands of CSM', so that isn't really relevant to the book. Anyway, the CSM do recruit new members, and not just via Fabius Bile (in Blood Reaver and Void Stalker for example). Without all the vetting procedures they can probably also do it quicker than loyalist marines. There are also tens of thousands of renegade CSM. The CSM are not just the legionnaires who first fled into the Eye. And while hundreds of thousands sounds a lot, its worth remembering that there are meant to be a million loyalists in the galaxy.

 

Are you so sure? Did you fully read Gathering Storm? Anyway, the CSM do recruit new members - in hundreds of thousands...

'There are also tens of thousands of renegade CSM' - more than 10k of Red Corsairs just in one event of GS.

'and while hundreds of thousands sounds a lot,' - sure, HH events, Scouring and Legion Wars are all for nothing.

Warp did it

[Ogun]

 

 

 

Heritor, what they "achieved" is preventing the Five Hundred Worlds of Ultramar from being eradicated. Surely that's obvious? The whole point of the Imperium in 40K is eternal war because it's always, always, always going to be fundamentally on the defensive.

Right - everything is based on Ultramar... That's the point of everything released so far. Ultramar is a dot on the map - Buirlliman went to save at the the end of the 120 years of CRUSADE.

And let's do not forget - 'HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CSM'...

Fluff makers in GW - please grow up and create mature content, not some adult faity tale

 

 

Dark Imperium never mentioned the 'Hundreds of thousands of CSM', so that isn't really relevant to the book. Anyway, the CSM do recruit new members, and not just via Fabius Bile (in Blood Reaver and Void Stalker for example). Without all the vetting procedures they can probably also do it quicker than loyalist marines. There are also tens of thousands of renegade CSM. The CSM are not just the legionnaires who first fled into the Eye. And while hundreds of thousands sounds a lot, its worth remembering that there are meant to be a million loyalists in the galaxy.

 

Are you so sure? Did you fully read Gathering Storm? Anyway, the CSM do recruit new members - in hundreds of thousands...

'There are also tens of thousands of renegade CSM' - more than 10k of Red Corsairs just in one event of GS.

'and while hundreds of thousands sounds a lot,' - sure, HH events, Scouring and Legion Wars are all for nothing.

Warp did it

 

 

I did indeed, but we were talking about the novel, not Gathering Storm. 

Over 10,000 years, and factoring in warp time distortions, it is possible. The old legions were recruiting right through the Heresy and no doubt well into the Scouring. Caliban was able to churn out something like 40,000 or more recruits between the outbreak of the Heresy and Luther's betrayal, and the traitor homeworlds were no doubt doing something similar. Yes, their numbers would be well well down on their pre-Heresy levels, and yes, the Legion wars would have done their bit too. But by the First Black Crusade they would only have needed to keep their legion strength to an average of under 30,000 per-legion, for hundreds of thousands to be true. 

Blackheart was basically getting his hands on a as much geneseed as possible (Marines Errant for example) for two centuries and probably sticking it in any compatible child. Add in defectors and he could get those numbers. 

I liked Rob Sanders portrayal of the Cholercaust in Legion of the Damned. The bulk of the CSMs were renegades and almost treated as cannon fodder by the actual World Eaters, who were a small minority of elite veterans. 

 

Anyway, back to Dark Imperium.

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

 

Heritor, what they "achieved" is preventing the Five Hundred Worlds of Ultramar from being eradicated. Surely that's obvious? The whole point of the Imperium in 40K is eternal war because it's always, always, always going to be fundamentally on the defensive.

Right - everything is based on Ultramar... That's the point of everything released so far. Ultramar is a dot on the map - Buirlliman went to save at the the end of the 120 years of CRUSADE.

And let's do not forget - 'HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CSM'...

Fluff makers in GW - please grow up and create mature content, not some adult faity tale

 

 

Dark Imperium never mentioned the 'Hundreds of thousands of CSM', so that isn't really relevant to the book. Anyway, the CSM do recruit new members, and not just via Fabius Bile (in Blood Reaver and Void Stalker for example). Without all the vetting procedures they can probably also do it quicker than loyalist marines. There are also tens of thousands of renegade CSM. The CSM are not just the legionnaires who first fled into the Eye. And while hundreds of thousands sounds a lot, its worth remembering that there are meant to be a million loyalists in the galaxy.

 

Are you so sure? Did you fully read Gathering Storm? Anyway, the CSM do recruit new members - in hundreds of thousands...

'There are also tens of thousands of renegade CSM' - more than 10k of Red Corsairs just in one event of GS.

'and while hundreds of thousands sounds a lot,' - sure, HH events, Scouring and Legion Wars are all for nothing.

Warp did it

 

 

I did indeed, but we were talking about the novel, not Gathering Storm. 

Over 10,000 years, and factoring in warp time distortions, it is possible. The old legions were recruiting right through the Heresy and no doubt well into the Scouring. Caliban was able to churn out something like 40,000 or more recruits between the outbreak of the Heresy and Luther's betrayal, and the traitor homeworlds were no doubt doing something similar. Yes, their numbers would be well well down on their pre-Heresy levels, and yes, the Legion wars would have done their bit too. But by the First Black Crusade they would only have needed to keep their legion strength to an average of under 30,000 per-legion, for hundreds of thousands to be true. 

Blackheart was basically getting his hands on a as much geneseed as possible (Marines Errant for example) for two centuries and probably sticking it in any compatible child. Add in defectors and he could get those numbers. 

I liked Rob Sanders portrayal of the Cholercaust in Legion of the Damned. The bulk of the CSMs were renegades and almost treated as cannon fodder by the actual World Eaters, who were a small minority of elite veterans. 

 

Anyway, back to Dark Imperium.

 

Black Legion will help you see the issues with logistic in the Eye ;)

But again - warp did it. Byt the way 'Warp did it' is made into the poster on Andy Clark wall

[DogWelder]

I really enjoyed this book, more so than I actually anticipated that I might. Hats off to Haley, he not only has linked this book nicely back to the Heresy era but also has been the brave soul who has broken new ground in the setting. In my opinion, he has a done a good job.

 

Guilliman:

Haley's decision to start with Thessala was probably one of his cleverest moves. Guilliman and his new Codex chapters are curb stomped by Fulgrim. Escape is the only Imperial achievement in the battle. From the off the entire concept of Guilliman as the rescuer of the 40k Imperium is undermined both in the minds of the reader and Guilliman himself. Guilliman in 40k is an angry, bitter man questioning some of the fundamental truths of his previous life. And despite the result of Thessala his anger is still pushing him towards personal confrontations with his brothers, in this case Mortarion. The question of Guilliman's fallibility then becomes a constant subtext to the novel, something the viewpoint sections of Decimus and Calgar conveyed very nicely. They can see problems and human failings in their Primarch, something that is particularly hard for Calgar who had deified Guilliman for centuries before his rebirth.

 

Guilliman and the Emperor:

Haley's prose is fairly workman like most of the time, but the bit where Guilliman likens the Emperor to a man in a cage being given a rasp is such an elegant description that it has stuck with me.

 

 

Why Ultramar?

Like a lot of people, I would like to see more areas of the Imperium being explored in the new period. That said, the decision to focus on Ultramar I think was wise. Ultramar was always held up to be the nice neighbourhood in the Imperium. Yes, there was that infestation of bugs a few centuries ago, but it was the least 40k bit of 40k. Haley does a very nice job of showing how that has changed. The description of the hospital world that Iax had become was probably one of my favourite bits in the novel. Ultramar, the nice bit of the Imperium, is now a daemon haunted ruin. The Grim Dark in 40k has now got a lot grimmer and darker.

 

Primaris:

These bits were the weakest in my opinion. The Greyshields are a very interesting concept, but the Inceptor company felt like a unit of caricatures. Decimus was so vanilla that if the novel was a cake recipe, Decimus would be the teaspoon of vanilla extract. They need some work in the sequel, and hopefully they will get it. That said, I rather liked the curve ball that Guilliman's thought's on the Primaris throws at Decimus' confident conviction that they are the future. 

 

Tbh as far as Ultramar's invasions go, the Plague Wars ranks pretty low in my opinion. 

 

The Shadow Crusade destroyed 1/5th of Ultramar's 500 Worlds. Both the Tyranid invasion and the 13th Black Crusade threatened to overrun Macragge and wipe out Ultramar itself.

 

By comparison the Plague Wars are rather tame. Macragge never even got attacked and the invasion itself was concentrated on a few systems/planets of the 500 (Iax, Espandor, Konor, Parmenio and Adrium). All of those planets were eventually retaken/decontaminated and only Iax was lost permanently due to the virus bomb. 

[Prot]

I'm used to seeing the same hate against Ultramarines, the 500, and Guilliman, but the very high acceptance of this novel and enjoyment the majority have shown for it speaks volumes.

 

As soon as I read it without seeing reviews I really liked it. I often don't really enjoy loyalist based novels, but as much as I enjoyed this I waited for the typical backlash which really didn't come as furious as I anticipated.

 

This is perhaps one of my favourite depictions of Guilliman. But know many hate it but I found the self doubting, the codex questions, and the decision to hide his library were all new sides to Guilliman.

 

We all know that Macragge won't fall but the attrition is very high. The Primaris are shown as a much needed asset just to keep the Imperium's head above water.

 

The Cawl Inferior is, in my opinion, a brilliant story mechanism that leaves a large thread dangling that can be tugged at in the future.

 

- is the Cawl Inferior sentient? Guilliman thinks so, so do I. It desires to live, and fears for its demise.

 

- if the Cawl Inferior has anywhere near the knowledge it claims, is Cawl expendable?

 

- does Cawl truly have political aspirations or is this a ploy by the Inferior? It obviously makes Guilliman uneasy.

 

- is the relationship between Cawl and Guilliman walking a thin line? What happens if/when Mars finds out?

 

I liked the background touch on the poor Guardsmen destined for Club Poxwalker.

 

I know there was some Bolter porn but I liked it. I consider the audience and it was fine.

 

Felix was a good character...as Guilliman seems to enjoy Felix, we get the feeling Guilliman still relishes the past given Felix's age.

 

I just may read it again. I feel sometimes when I read other reviews I may have missed some stuff. I really do hope there's a sequel.

[DarkChaplain]

Your hopes have been answered: a sequel or multiple are coming!

[b1soul]

Smashing...

 

I'm down for a whole Dark Imperium line of novels, like Gaunt's Ghosts

 

Haley is also one of BL's more competent writers

[Xisor]

Smashing...

 

I'm down for a whole Dark Imperium line of novels, like Gaunt's Ghosts

 

Haley is also one of BL's more competent writers

Since reading "Valedor", I've come to the same conclusion. I adore Rob Sanders & Matt Farrer to a huge degree, but Guy has massively rocketed up in my opinion. So much so I'm fairly keen to keep atop almost all of his new release, and recover a good portion of his back catalogue.

 

Same with David Guymer, incidentally. Eye of Medusa is an incredible piece so far!

[Sete]

I like Guy ever since I read his short stories about BT.

 

I recommend them.