8th Ed Tactics thread

[Galron]

No, it still goes by the model.

 

@Withershadow- I think when the codex comes out it will tamp down some of the armies of friends we currently have going. It may not restrict them per say, but will likely give army wide bonuses for having all units Regiment <such and such>. Actually kind of messes things up for my Elysians who even since the early days had a close working relationship with the Storm Troopers. Also that Storm Troopers have always been an allied type force who join everybody they might make an exception. As for doing it now, hey why not. I currently field all of my start on the board units as standard guard rules and all of my transported/deepstrikers as Elysian rules, aside from scions who are scions. It saves a couple points here and there, maybe enough to give someone a plasma pistol. I don't expect it to remain a thing. Right now I think I can bring a Fire Raptor along with my Elysians since they both share Imperium.

[The Catachan Devil]

Good luck moving 200 models within 12" of a target. Mathhammer is fine and all, but these extreme examples are mental masturbation.

No, true - I agree 12" for all 200 models is extreme. However within 24" is viable, with some within 12" . I don't see a problem with that. 

 

 

 

As I understand it, if one figure is within range all those weapons within that unit are considered within range. Is this not the case?

Not with shooting but I believe that there isn't a range limit with close combat. If a unit charges another unit, the whole unit can make attacks in CC.

 

[Galron]

Still have to be within 1" of troops in close combat. My opponent this past weekend was purposely spreading out his guys to attack or engage multiple units of mine because they would be too far from the fight to take part anyway.

[The Catachan Devil]

Still have to be within 1" of troops in close combat. My opponent this past weekend was purposely spreading out his guys to attack or engage multiple units of mine because they would be too far from the fight to take part anyway.

Apologies! It helps if you read the rules. 

 

"3. Choose Targets First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of another model from its own unit that is itself within 1" of that enemy unit. This represents the unit fighting in two ranks. Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase."

[leth]

 

Death guard did work this weekend.  That 3+ to hit and not taking morale from shooting was legit. 

 

 Would be interested to hear more about how it, Death Korps are looking really good to me.  I'm formulating a list for them involving 30 Combat Engineers riding in either a Stormlord or 3 dual HF Chimeras supported by Yarrick (for re-rolling 1s to hit), a Marshal (to re-roll 1s to wound via orders), a Quartermaster (for the 6+ FNP), a Priest (for +1 attack) and a Death Korp Regimental banner (for another +1 attack). 

 

This would be my assault wave, and since I haven't calculated the point cost yet I haven't determined what will sit backfield but lets look at what it can do.

 

30 Engineers all unloading carcass shot before charging.  We have 60 shots, hitting on 3s, re-rolling 1s (and thus re-rolling "gets hot" results), wounding on 2s, re-rolling 1s (from orders), which then charge in for 93 attacks in close combat, hitting on 3s (not even factoring in all the special characters, just the engineers), which are immune to battle shock thanks to Yarrick, and have a 4+ save and a 6+FNP.  Sarges will have melta bombs and the Command Squad which houses the Regimental Banner will have meltas in in.

 

Sounds nasty on paper, but I haven't looked at the point cost yet. 

 

 

Sure thing! So the two big things were that I did not have to keep them in range of a commissar because they ignore shooting casualties and they hit on 3+s which more fragile units, weren't expecting.  This weekend a yannari person charged my squad with his harlequins on my turn.  I then counter charged with another unit and managed to kill two before they swung reducing the casualties that I took.  I was then able to on my next turn fall back and unload into my targets.  The squad leader being BS3+ is huge as it justifies taking a plasma pistol on him for 5 points.  Plasma Pistol Flamer is probably going to be my preferred loadout for my squads.  Keeps them cheap but still a significant threat to most targets.

 

I found that combining Yarrick with the special character marshal was great for damage output.  One strategy I used was to take three quad mortars, have one crew of three fire all of them while the other two crews provided a screen/assault buffer. The Quad mortars were kind of disappointing but I was also averaging 7-8 shots on 4d6, so not a good sample haha.  When they rolled high enough they were AWESOME.  Yarrick is pretty much mandatory IMO.  He is the only source of Aura re-roll 1s to hit and he works on all unit types.  Not just infantry.  

Edited July 11, 2017 by leth

[Galron]

Does he work with Regiment<Death korps>?

[leth]

Does he work with Regiment<Death korps>?

 

He just says Astra Militarum units 

[Withershadow]

I really like grenade launchers for my infantry squads. It adds D6 lasgun-equivalent shots at 24", and the Krak grenade can do work against tougher targets.

[Gen.Steiner]

It's cheap, too. GL and plasma guns are probably the best special weapons, synergistically, for infantry squads - Gl edging PG out due to cost, perhaps, if things are tight, but otherwise I reckon the PG has the edge due to higher S and optional overcharging for that desperate last stand moment.

[mmimzie]

What's a good anti armor detachment for under 350pts. I need a detachment that can take down flier and armor a like. My force already deals with these things okay, but i need something specifically designed to deal with these things.  Heavy weapon squads seem cool, but i worry they'll be gone in no time. 

[The Catachan Devil]

What's a good anti armor detachment for under 350pts. I need a detachment that can take down flier and armor a like. My force already deals with these things okay, but i need something specifically designed to deal with these things.  Heavy weapon squads seem cool, but i worry they'll be gone in no time. 

I'd say 2 manticores for 4D6 S10/-2/D3 a turn. Plus a master of ordnance to give reroll 1s to hit (plus his own once per game orbital bombardment). This will be under 350 points.  

 

 

Plus you don't need LOS to fire these bad boys. Hide them behind terrain in your backfield and shoot away with impunity.

[Shamansky]

Hydra is good against FLY, not only flyers, but also all eldar vehicles, jet bikes and most of jump pack infantry of all races. So one Hydra one Manticore and MoO for 278

[NatBrannigan]

Hydra is mean this edition. It's even okish against non FLY units with 8 shots, but shines against Jump troops and, I assume, jetbikes.

 

Just having one in an area will put off deep striking Jump troops.

[Rustam]

Interested to hear how the Chimeras will perform with two flamers. I'd also consider a storm bolter. For 2 points, a rapid fire 2 weapon is very solid when you're getting into close range anyway.

 

...

 

Tried a list with 3 double flamer chimeras a while back, works really well as a screening unit! Managed to herd a large gaunt blob around for a while. However the short range is kinda a thing when you're actually using them as transports, in my case to move infantry towards maelstrom objectives. Double bolter is probably better allround

 

Considering taking just 1 as a screening unit, to put opposite of enemies that chew through guardsmen too easily. Any thoughts?

[NatBrannigan]

I've not used a Chimera or Hellhounds yet, but a Landraider Redeemer was absolutely brutal... You pay for it of course but those Flamestorm Cannon, my word! Makes me really keen on a Macharius Infernus.

 

So, Double Heavy Flamer is probably good but expensive and the Chimera is a transport after all. How far off a Hellhound are you points wise if you give a Chimera dual HF's?

[The Catachan Devil]

Hydra is good against FLY, not only flyers, but also all eldar vehicles, jet bikes and most of jump pack infantry of all races. So one Hydra one Manticore and MoO for 278

 

The Hydra is cheaper and has a more reliable (and higher) shot count and Damage values.

 

However don't think it is amazing vs flyers just because it gets to +1 to BS against Flyers. It obviously improves it, but only really against T6 Flyers. Examples of vehicles below have had the damage modifiers applied to them. 

 

As you might expect, the Manticore does do better vs non-flyers and the Hydra does do better vs flyers. For instance it is exceptionally better vs T6 flyers; however I don't feel the difference in Anti-flyer ability is really that stark (with the exception of T6 Flyers). I feel Hydras are very useful if you feel your local meta is very flyer orientated.

 

However due to the Manticore's ability to perform well across a variety of target types I feel it is more appropriate to use Manticores instead of Hydras for an all-comers list. 

 

Hydra VS:

T6 Vehicle: 2.67 Wounds

T7 Vehicle: 2.00 Wounds

T8 Vehicle: 1.33 Wounds

 

T6 Vehicle with FLY: 3.56 Wounds

T7 Vehicle with FLY:2.67 Wounds

T8 Vehicle with FLY: 1.78 Wounds

 

T4 MEQ : 1.33 Wounds

T4 MEQ with FLY: 1.78 Wounds

 

Manticore VS:

T6 Vehicle: 3.11 Wounds

T7 Vehicle: 3.11 Wounds

T8 Vehicle with: 3.11 Wounds

 

T6 Vehicle with FLY: 2.07 Wounds

T7 Vehicle with FLY: 2.07 Wounds

T8 Vehicle with FLY: 2.07 Wounds

 

T4 MEQ : 1.94 Wounds

​T4 MEQ with FLY: 1.30 Wounds.

Edited July 12, 2017 by The Catachan Devil

[The Catachan Devil]

 

Interested to hear how the Chimeras will perform with two flamers. I'd also consider a storm bolter. For 2 points, a rapid fire 2 weapon is very solid when you're getting into close range anyway.

 

...

Tried a list with 3 double flamer chimeras a while back, works really well as a screening unit! Managed to herd a large gaunt blob around for a while. However the short range is kinda a thing when you're actually using them as transports, in my case to move infantry towards maelstrom objectives. Double bolter is probably better allround

 

Considering taking just 1 as a screening unit, to put opposite of enemies that chew through guardsmen too easily. Any thoughts?

 

 

Decent screening options:

• Run a vet squad inside the duel HF'd chimera with 3 flamers and a heavy flamer (that's alotta fire!).
• If 8" is too close for comfort, get a Hellhound and give it a heavy flamer, you'll then have a 16" Flamer threat range with a heavy flamer to put on top of that as back up if the enemy gets close.
• I've heard good things about scout sentinels with heavy flamers. Their ability to scout forward 9" and deny 1st turn deep striking is pretty good. Plus being 52 points each and 6 wounds each, they aren't to be overlooked. 

[Withershadow]

I've not used a Chimera or Hellhounds yet, but a Landraider Redeemer was absolutely brutal... You pay for it of course but those Flamestorm Cannon, my word! Makes me really keen on a Macharius Infernus.

 

So, Double Heavy Flamer is probably good but expensive and the Chimera is a transport after all. How far off a Hellhound are you points wise if you give a Chimera dual HF's?

You mean Malcador Infernus and it's mean as hell.

 

An Artemia-pattern Hellhound with a hull heavy flamer is 8 points more than a Chimera with dual flamers.

 

My whole issue with the flamers is the range. Even overwatch doesn't work great when they can park 8.1" away from you and ignore it completely and still have a solid chance to make the charge.

Sentinel Powerloaders are the best IMO.

[The Catachan Devil]

.

My whole issue with the flamers is the range. Even overwatch doesn't work great when they can park 8.1" away from you and ignore it completely and still have a solid chance to make the charge.

Sentinel Powerloaders are the best IMO.

 

 

Standard units have a 38.9% 41.67% chance of making an 8" charge - I wouldn't call this a "solid chance". 

 

& yeah I love the look of the Powerlifters.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by The Catachan Devil

[Rustam]

Totally true, hellhound is about the same price and longer range as well. Should be a nice meat/steelshield, and makes them eat overwatch from the main gun at least.

 

How does everyone use their sentinels in 8th? I usually have too many drops for 1st turn, and so far had to pick the models up before I could even move them.

[Galron]

Catachan, first turn charges are quite easy to pull off. I had 5 done against me last week in one game, 4 from drop pods and one from ambush. I am 50/50 on my own DS charges at 9" with marines. Since flamers do not work against these for stupid reasons, we need other sources of mitigation such as scout sentinels to extend the safe bubble, hellhounds who dont have the stupid range issue, and cyclopses who dare things to charge them.

 

Scout sentinels are great for one thing in my mind, extending the safe bubble from first turn charges. Put 3 or four of them spread out 18" apart or at least covering the front of your main line and scout move forward the first turn so they opponent cant jump your line from deep strike. Regardless of the math it happens a flipping ton. I lost 3 units including my warlord behind the other 2 units and had two tanks tied up in close combat because of first turn charges. Never leave home without them.

[Withershadow]

 

.

My whole issue with the flamers is the range. Even overwatch doesn't work great when they can park 8.1" away from you and ignore it completely and still have a solid chance to make the charge.

Sentinel Powerloaders are the best IMO.

 

 

Standard units have a 38.9% chance of making an 8" charge - I wouldn't call this a "solid chance". 

 

& yeah I love the look of the Powerlifters.

The chance to roll an 8 or higher on 2 dice is 41.66, close to a coin flip.  That's solid in our realm. :P

[wulfgar hammerfist]

How are you guys handling four knight lists? I had two manticores, 9 lascannons, and a bunch of plasma guns and I was barely able to bring one down. I've been told to play to the objectives but since they're all scored at the end of the game it's hard to do that.

 

The list I faced had an Atrapos, Crusader, Paladin, and Errant and it pretty much walked all over my list. I don't want to list tailor as I'm trying to build a tournament army but it just seems like a tall order to kill that many Knights.

 

I am open to advice.

[duz_]

Shadowsword! B)

 

Those lists are always going to be hard. Other than trying to out gun then keep moving into cover out of LoS. Play the long game.

Easier in Eternal War than Maelstrom

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I have considered the Shadowsword but it's such a huge investment in points. The board we played on had cover but a big chunk of damage came from two exploding vehicles early on while my forces were still relatively compact. Mortal wounds took out a commissar, a lascannon squad, and put enough wounds on four infantry squads to force tough morale tests and they melted to battle shock.