HH Book 46: Ruinstorm

[SpAcEGhOsT095]

Wow....

So Sangiunius went all Evil Dr. Phil on Curze before he shot him into space?

Brutal.

Definitely getting this book.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Was there any movement or information beyond the Primarchs storyline? Details of organization or special units we might see coming down the pipe?

[TheRealMcCagh]

Ultramarine Destroyers get several mentions and some PoV passages. Other than that pretty much everything is happening within eyesight of a Primarch and about the Primarch doing something

[Hexagon Sun]

Possibly some new Dark Angels units.

 

“The primarchs walked at the head of a contingent of their elite warriors. Squads of the Sanguinary Guard, the Invictus, the Deathbringers and the Doombringers followed.”

 

Found to book to be a difficult read and I didn’t enjoy it all that much. It felt really flat and considering the potential with 3 loyalist primarchs plus their legions present it’s pretty disappointing. I didn’t enjoy Pythos, but I’d hoped given the characters that this would be a good read.

[b1soul]

I've often found that authour style determines my enjoyment of a book...and it's quite rare for authour style to change. Each authour's style is pretty set.

[Lucerne]

It tries to be a character-driven piece and portrays Chaos as something that completely breaks reality/is a mindscrew that even a Primarch struggles to comprehend and deal with, and that's laudable. Decent use of continuity for the various characters and factions. There's an interesting point where the characters wonder if Horus and Lorgar understand what Chaos will actually do to the galaxy.

 

Less laudable is the failure in execution of some interesting ideas. Characterization seemed a bit telegraphed and a central plot point that they all keep harping on about would have been derailed by a single bolter shell- never mind that a character's pigeonholed into the characterization he needs for future events at the end regardless of how forced that seems given the events previously.

 

On a lighter note, the Unremembered Empire is repeatedly referred to as a heretical shambles that everyone regrets even being remotely involved with and that Sanguinus is deeply ashamed of enabling, and Guilliman intentionally threw the Imperium under the bus by knowingly ignoring the possibility that the Imperium may well have still been around. Added to that, in the end, Guilliman intentionally decides to not even try to head to Terra and has the gall to call it atonement. Arguably, he even knows he's letting Sanguinus die in the process.

 

Overall, this book was a mediocrity that tried to be something better but didn't quite make it. The parts that matter are Chapter 1: the gang heads out on a road trip, and Conclusion: Guilliman makes excuses not to head to Terra, the Lion goes on an Exterminatus spree, and Sanguinus is railroaded to his date with the Talon of Horus. Everything else is basically filler. The subtitle may as well be "Tzeentch Was Right".

Edited October 18, 2017 by Ugolino

[DogWelder]

It tries to be a character-driven piece and portrays Chaos as something that completely breaks reality/is a mindscrew that even a Primarch struggles to comprehend and deal with, and that's laudable. Decent use of continuity for the various characters and factions. There's an interesting point where the characters wonder if Horus and Lorgar understand what Chaos will actually do to the galaxy.

 

Less laudable is the failure in execution of some interesting ideas. Characterization seemed a bit telegraphed and a central plot point that they all keep harping on about would have been derailed by a single bolter shell- never mind that a character's pigeonholed into the characterization he needs for future events at the end regardless of how forced that seems given the events previously.

 

On a lighter note, the Unremembered Empire is repeatedly referred to as a heretical shambles that everyone regrets even being remotely involved with and that Sanguinus is deeply ashamed of enabling, and Guilliman intentionally threw the Imperium under the bus by knowingly ignoring the possibility that the Imperium may well have still been around. Added to that, in the end, Guilliman intentionally decides to not even try to head to Terra and has the gall to call it atonement. Arguably, he even knows he's letting Sanguinus die in the process.

 

Overall, this book was a mediocrity that tried to be something better but didn't quite make it. The parts that matter are Chapter 1: the gang heads out on a road trip, and Conclusion: Guilliman makes excuses not to head to Terra, the Lion goes on an Exterminatus spree, and Sanguinus is railroaded to his date with the Talon of Horus. Everything else is basically filler. The subtitle may as well be "Tzeentch Was Right".

 

 

....aren't Guilliman and the Ultramarines going to batter open a path for Sanguinius to get to Terra? 

[Lucerne]

Guilliman's response to Sanguinus's arrival and death being "fated" is to immediately suggest that he himself and his Ultramarines don't need to go to Terra and that instead he should go waste time with Horus's forces so Sanguinus can go and be brutally murdered. Either he's incompetent- a very real possibility given how he seems excited about playing "penance" by not actually...helping the Emperor in his hour of need, or he's actively malicious.

 

I mean, this is the novel where a certain character ping pongs between characterizations before settling on the one the plot fiats for future events to make a modicum of sense in a painfully forced bit of character writing actively contradicted by his actions two minutes earlier, so anything's possible...

Edited October 18, 2017 by Ugolino

[DogWelder]

Guilliman's response to Sanguinus's arrival and death being "fated" is to immediately suggest that he himself and his Ultramarines don't need to go to Terra and that instead he should go waste time with Horus's forces so Sanguinus can go and be brutally murdered. Either he's incompetent- a very real possibility given how he seems excited about playing "penance" by not actually...helping the Emperor in his hour of need, or he's actively malicious.

 

I mean, this is the novel where a certain character ping pongs between characterizations before settling on the one the plot fiats for future events to make a modicum of sense in a painfully forced bit of character writing actively contradicted by his actions two minutes earlier, so anything's possible...

 

He's not really wasting time if he's breaking open a path for Sanguinius to get to Terra. He's recognizing that Sanguinius is much more qualified than him to undertake the task so he's going to do his best to make sure his brother succeeds in fulfilling his destiny, whatever that may be.

[Lucerne]

 

Guilliman's response to Sanguinus's arrival and death being "fated" is to immediately suggest that he himself and his Ultramarines don't need to go to Terra and that instead he should go waste time with Horus's forces so Sanguinus can go and be brutally murdered. Either he's incompetent- a very real possibility given how he seems excited about playing "penance" by not actually...helping the Emperor in his hour of need, or he's actively malicious.

 

I mean, this is the novel where a certain character ping pongs between characterizations before settling on the one the plot fiats for future events to make a modicum of sense in a painfully forced bit of character writing actively contradicted by his actions two minutes earlier, so anything's possible...

 

He's not really wasting time if he's breaking open a path for Sanguinius to get to Terra. He's recognizing that Sanguinius is much more qualified than him to undertake the task so he's going to do his best to make sure his brother succeeds in fulfilling his destiny, whatever that may be.

 

So he has Sanguinus's blood on his hands as well as that of Dorn, now? Given that Sanguinus's death at Terra is (allegedly) fated, if he believes that- and it's implied he doesn't- he should just go with him since Sanguinus makes it to Terra anyway. If he doesn't believe that, he doesn't care enough to try and save Sanguinus's life/avert that fate.

 

That said, this whole book's handling of the destiny/fate thing is very hit and miss, so mischaracterization is as plausible as malice on Guiliman's part.

[mc warhammer]

 

Why would one doe that? I mean...why? That doesn't make any sense to me as for now...

And by the way, could we make use of spoiler tags, please?

MAJOR SPOILER

there’s real tragedy suggested here- how much of a victim of his own visions was curze? the idea that he has a glimmer of hope at the thought of the emp forgiving him implies a chronic fatalism in his character.

if he thought that the future wasn’t inevitable or that his father wasn’t destined to kill him...would he have been different? without precog, would we have a more stable primarch?

 

and before anyone starts with the “don’t be a man child, take control of ya destiny i made my first million at 21” business, consider growing up with a set of visions that come true one by one until the only one left was daddy chopping off your head

[Kelborn]

I do think that Curze would be more stable without his visions.

 

Sure, he may not be that of a combatant without them but still a decent one. He'd still be a dark version of Batman, though. ^^

 

Would be destroy Nostramo nonetheless? Surely. It was Nostramos population which "corrupted" his Legion. Would he stay loyal? Probably not. Him despising the Emperor wasn't birthed by his visions, right? It's more because of the hypocrisy of the Emperor and his vision, I assume.

[mc warhammer]

I do think that Curze would be more stable without his visions.

 

Sure, he may not be that of a combatant without them but still a decent one. He'd still be a dark version of Batman, though. ^^

 

Would be destroy Nostramo nonetheless? Surely. It was Nostramos population which "corrupted" his Legion. Would he stay loyal? Probably not. Him despising the Emperor wasn't birthed by his visions, right? It's more because of the hypocrisy of the Emperor and his vision, I assume.

 

 

well, yeah...that's his conscious rationale. but this opens up an interesting possibility for another view: do curze's visions cause/encourage his view of the emp as a hypocrite?

 

some people with extremist/violent views have been rehabilitated once they find acceptance, support and a sense of belonging (the lack of being what sent them down the path of white supremacy or whatever).

 

yes, there is hypocrisy in the emp's vision. but is curze more open and aware of it and more willing to tear it down because on some level he feels exclusion from it? because he knows that at some point, that hypocritical system will turn on him and cut his friggin' head off?

 

maybes...

[Ascanius]

Not sure what anyone gains by engaging with such a wilful misinterpretation of Guilliman as a villainous figure.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Caillum
racism

[Marshal Rohr]

Not sure what anyone gains by engaging with such a wilful misinterpretation of Guilliman as a villainous figure. I thought the "Magnus dindu nuffin wrong" people were tedious . . .

You know 'dindu nuffin' is a racist meme about black people in the American South, right?

[mc warhammer]

 

Not sure what anyone gains by engaging with such a wilful misinterpretation of Guilliman as a villainous figure. I thought the "Magnus dindu nuffin wrong" people were tedious . . .

You know 'dindu nuffin' is a racist meme about black people in the American South, right?

i was wondering about that...

[Marshal Rohr]

Is there a reason my post about racist jokes was deleted? That's pretty messed up.

[Prot]

 

 

Guilliman's response to Sanguinus's arrival and death being "fated" is to immediately suggest that he himself and his Ultramarines don't need to go to Terra and that instead he should go waste time with Horus's forces so Sanguinus can go and be brutally murdered. Either he's incompetent- a very real possibility given how he seems excited about playing "penance" by not actually...helping the Emperor in his hour of need, or he's actively malicious.

 

I mean, this is the novel where a certain character ping pongs between characterizations before settling on the one the plot fiats for future events to make a modicum of sense in a painfully forced bit of character writing actively contradicted by his actions two minutes earlier, so anything's possible...

 

He's not really wasting time if he's breaking open a path for Sanguinius to get to Terra. He's recognizing that Sanguinius is much more qualified than him to undertake the task so he's going to do his best to make sure his brother succeeds in fulfilling his destiny, whatever that may be.

 

So he has Sanguinus's blood on his hands as well as that of Dorn, now? Given that Sanguinus's death at Terra is (allegedly) fated, if he believes that- and it's implied he doesn't- he should just go with him since Sanguinus makes it to Terra anyway. If he doesn't believe that, he doesn't care enough to try and save Sanguinus's life/avert that fate.

 

That said, this whole book's handling of the destiny/fate thing is very hit and miss, so mischaracterization is as plausible as malice on Guiliman's part.

 

 

You're just trying way too hard here.

 

Across the forum you've voiced your extreme views of Guilliman. We get it. We understand your views but continually arguing with people really isn't helping your cause.

[Lucerne]

 

 

 

Guilliman's response to Sanguinus's arrival and death being "fated" is to immediately suggest that he himself and his Ultramarines don't need to go to Terra and that instead he should go waste time with Horus's forces so Sanguinus can go and be brutally murdered. Either he's incompetent- a very real possibility given how he seems excited about playing "penance" by not actually...helping the Emperor in his hour of need, or he's actively malicious.

 

I mean, this is the novel where a certain character ping pongs between characterizations before settling on the one the plot fiats for future events to make a modicum of sense in a painfully forced bit of character writing actively contradicted by his actions two minutes earlier, so anything's possible...

 

He's not really wasting time if he's breaking open a path for Sanguinius to get to Terra. He's recognizing that Sanguinius is much more qualified than him to undertake the task so he's going to do his best to make sure his brother succeeds in fulfilling his destiny, whatever that may be.

 

So he has Sanguinus's blood on his hands as well as that of Dorn, now? Given that Sanguinus's death at Terra is (allegedly) fated, if he believes that- and it's implied he doesn't- he should just go with him since Sanguinus makes it to Terra anyway. If he doesn't believe that, he doesn't care enough to try and save Sanguinus's life/avert that fate.

 

That said, this whole book's handling of the destiny/fate thing is very hit and miss, so mischaracterization is as plausible as malice on Guiliman's part.

 

 

You're just trying way too hard here.

 

Across the forum you've voiced your extreme views of Guilliman. We get it. We understand your views but continually arguing with people really isn't helping your cause.

 

Regardless of my views or what anyone else thinks of them, my posts are based on my opinion of the book and the events of the book and as such are relevant to a thread about said book. And while Ruinstorm isn't memorably terrible- falling into the same vague inability to muster approval as Pythos- it certainly isn't good and the question of if the writer meant to write Guilliman as a malicious incompetent despite telegraphing otherwise in the character's emoting or if it was by design is certainly an open question.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Ugolino

[drooling blood]

Annadale should have stuck to his tanks. He can write tanks and IG.

Primarchs and SMmmm not so much.

The worst part wast the after word. Where he thanks all those that helped him make it :cuss.

Gouldings best gone. For the boring thank Kyme. Pretty sure Thorpe had bit of input there to.

Just another heresy tale that went no where and meant nothing.

[TheRealMcCagh]

The one thing I think we are missing with Curse's character is a portrayal of him trying to avoid the future that he gets glimpses of. We just see his despair and resignation that its going to happen no matter what. You'd think at some point (probably way back in his early years) he would get a vision that he didn't want to happen and tried to prevent it (and usually causing it to happen, as the way prophecy tends to go). Then his 'everything is crap, don't even try' mentality might make sense. Right now it's just like, have you ever even tried to fight it? Why is he so absolutely sure that no matter what the future will come to pass as prophesized?

[Kelborn]

Annadale should have stuck to his tanks. He can write tanks and IG.

Primarchs and SMmmm not so much.

The worst part wast the after word. Where he thanks all those that helped him make it :cuss.

Gouldings best gone. For the boring thank Kyme. Pretty sure Thorpe had bit of input there to.

Just another heresy tale that went no where and meant nothing.

Heri? Is that you? ;)

 

Seems like it's a mediocre novel. Will get it nonetheless as its the end of the IS arc.

[Karthak]

So I'm reading some fairly ridiculous spoilers on the topic of spacestations and the size thereof...

[Wulfburk]

not really space stations but some warp infused constructions in the middle of the ruinstorm, which were anchored to some real things like a planet.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Wulfburk

[Marshal Rohr]

Can we get a full spoilers list, por favor?