HH Book 46: Ruinstorm

[HeritorA]

 

 

Anyway, while I'm disappointed there will be no hugely detailed massive Space Battle, I am curious as to what the fate of remaining Gloriana class ships among the 3 Legions. We know the Macragge's Honor survives since its Guilliman's Flagship in M42 but I wonder if the Red Tear and the Invincible Reason will be destroyed at this battle since its not there in M41.

 

Same. We all know that at some point HH/Scouring or after 'Macragge's Honor' dropped from the warp and joined the Imperial forces.

As for the Red Tear - something tells me that it would die over Terra.

As for the Invincible reason - maybe that's the one that would be destroyed in the 'Ruinstorm'.

 

Also it would be nice if according to the 'kiss principle' in warfare - united fleet assets of 3 Legions would wipe out some big traitoris battlegroup, preferably including with the 'Trisagion' or 'Blessed Lady'. I do sooo want both these ships dead

 

 

I think the Blessed Lady is already destroyed at this point. It is highly likely that is the wreck the Salamanders found in "Deathfire" at the outer edges of Ultramar. The one which was filled with Ultramarine and Word Bearer corpses.

 

The Trisaigon is still active since it went out of the Ruinstorm with Lorgar in the last pages of Betrayar.

 

 

True, but we already discussed that on the previous pages. The corpse of a Kingship in Deathfire was an editorial ruse from Laurie and Kyme for the story of Thiel (who became like an Ultrasmurf Rambo now). It was simply a burned out carcass of the 'Abyss' pushed from Macragge's orbit. Or as I said another Rambo Thiel story  - how he singlehandly (with a tactical squad of Smurfs in tow) destroyed a mighty 'kingship'

[DogWelder]

 

 

 

Anyway, while I'm disappointed there will be no hugely detailed massive Space Battle, I am curious as to what the fate of remaining Gloriana class ships among the 3 Legions. We know the Macragge's Honor survives since its Guilliman's Flagship in M42 but I wonder if the Red Tear and the Invincible Reason will be destroyed at this battle since its not there in M41.

 

Same. We all know that at some point HH/Scouring or after 'Macragge's Honor' dropped from the warp and joined the Imperial forces.

As for the Red Tear - something tells me that it would die over Terra.

As for the Invincible reason - maybe that's the one that would be destroyed in the 'Ruinstorm'.

 

Also it would be nice if according to the 'kiss principle' in warfare - united fleet assets of 3 Legions would wipe out some big traitoris battlegroup, preferably including with the 'Trisagion' or 'Blessed Lady'. I do sooo want both these ships dead

 

 

I think the Blessed Lady is already destroyed at this point. It is highly likely that is the wreck the Salamanders found in "Deathfire" at the outer edges of Ultramar. The one which was filled with Ultramarine and Word Bearer corpses.

 

The Trisaigon is still active since it went out of the Ruinstorm with Lorgar in the last pages of Betrayar.

 

 

True, but we already discussed that on the previous pages. The corpse of a Kingship in Deathfire was an editorial ruse from Laurie and Kyme for the story of Thiel (who became like an Ultrasmurf Rambo now). It was simply a burned out carcass of the 'Abyss' pushed from Macragge's orbit. Or as I said another Rambo Thiel story  - how he singlehandly (with a tactical squad of Smurfs in tow) destroyed a mighty 'kingship'

 

 

But the corpse of the Abyss was still over Macragge in Deathfire

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

 

Anyway, while I'm disappointed there will be no hugely detailed massive Space Battle, I am curious as to what the fate of remaining Gloriana class ships among the 3 Legions. We know the Macragge's Honor survives since its Guilliman's Flagship in M42 but I wonder if the Red Tear and the Invincible Reason will be destroyed at this battle since its not there in M41.

 

Same. We all know that at some point HH/Scouring or after 'Macragge's Honor' dropped from the warp and joined the Imperial forces.

As for the Red Tear - something tells me that it would die over Terra.

As for the Invincible reason - maybe that's the one that would be destroyed in the 'Ruinstorm'.

 

Also it would be nice if according to the 'kiss principle' in warfare - united fleet assets of 3 Legions would wipe out some big traitoris battlegroup, preferably including with the 'Trisagion' or 'Blessed Lady'. I do sooo want both these ships dead

 

 

I think the Blessed Lady is already destroyed at this point. It is highly likely that is the wreck the Salamanders found in "Deathfire" at the outer edges of Ultramar. The one which was filled with Ultramarine and Word Bearer corpses.

 

The Trisaigon is still active since it went out of the Ruinstorm with Lorgar in the last pages of Betrayar.

 

 

True, but we already discussed that on the previous pages. The corpse of a Kingship in Deathfire was an editorial ruse from Laurie and Kyme for the story of Thiel (who became like an Ultrasmurf Rambo now). It was simply a burned out carcass of the 'Abyss' pushed from Macragge's orbit. Or as I said another Rambo Thiel story  - how he singlehandly (with a tactical squad of Smurfs in tow) destroyed a mighty 'kingship'

 

 

But the corpse of the Abyss was still over Macragge in Deathfire

 

 

True.  I did forget that point. So we will have 'Rambo Thiel story  - how he singlehandly (with a tactical squad of Smurfs in tow) destroyed a mighty 'kingship''

[DogWelder]

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, while I'm disappointed there will be no hugely detailed massive Space Battle, I am curious as to what the fate of remaining Gloriana class ships among the 3 Legions. We know the Macragge's Honor survives since its Guilliman's Flagship in M42 but I wonder if the Red Tear and the Invincible Reason will be destroyed at this battle since its not there in M41.

 

Same. We all know that at some point HH/Scouring or after 'Macragge's Honor' dropped from the warp and joined the Imperial forces.

As for the Red Tear - something tells me that it would die over Terra.

As for the Invincible reason - maybe that's the one that would be destroyed in the 'Ruinstorm'.

 

Also it would be nice if according to the 'kiss principle' in warfare - united fleet assets of 3 Legions would wipe out some big traitoris battlegroup, preferably including with the 'Trisagion' or 'Blessed Lady'. I do sooo want both these ships dead

 

 

I think the Blessed Lady is already destroyed at this point. It is highly likely that is the wreck the Salamanders found in "Deathfire" at the outer edges of Ultramar. The one which was filled with Ultramarine and Word Bearer corpses.

 

The Trisaigon is still active since it went out of the Ruinstorm with Lorgar in the last pages of Betrayar.

 

 

True, but we already discussed that on the previous pages. The corpse of a Kingship in Deathfire was an editorial ruse from Laurie and Kyme for the story of Thiel (who became like an Ultrasmurf Rambo now). It was simply a burned out carcass of the 'Abyss' pushed from Macragge's orbit. Or as I said another Rambo Thiel story  - how he singlehandly (with a tactical squad of Smurfs in tow) destroyed a mighty 'kingship'

 

 

But the corpse of the Abyss was still over Macragge in Deathfire

 

 

True.  I did forget that point. So we will have 'Rambo Thiel story  - how he singlehandly (with a tactical squad of Smurfs in tow) destroyed a mighty 'kingship''

 

 

I dont think Thiel had anything to do with it. Remember that this was the description of the wreck:

 

“As large as the Charybdis was, it could fly through the gutted remains of this gargantuan hulk like a minnow through the carcass of a gnorl-whale, if carefully navigated.

Adyssian ordered Esenzi to take them through. Based on the last sensorium returns, she had already plotted a viable course that fell within acceptable risk parameters. They went in dark, their internal lumens kept low and their power signature to a minimum.

Too huge to go around, the massive ship effectively impeded their path. They had to forge through it but, given what could be lurking in the shadows, it was prudent to be cautious.

Within its ruptured innards, the hulk was no less impressive. Huge internal amphitheatres opened up beyond the ship’s ruined outer skin. Overhead, split gantries and walkways jutted from the interior like bones.

Whatever had befallen this behemoth, little more than a shell remained.

Through one hall, entire battle companies of legionaries were locked in combat, flash-frozen during a final engagement. Bodies clad in cobalt-blue and crimson, each rimed in hoarfrost, began to drift in the wake of the Charybdis’s passage. Some impacted against the shields, shattering into fragments. Others maintained their eternal[…]”

 

Excerpt From: Nick Kyme. “Deathfire.” iBooks. 

 

Sounds like a description of a massive battle/boarding action. Not something one squad did.

[DarkChaplain]

Just to reiterate, the way I understood things, Thiel's plotline/appearance go as follows:

 

Know No Fear -> Censure -> Red-Marked -> Stratagem -> Deathfire

 

The Unremembered Empire goes somewhere between Censure and Stratagem, I'm not quite sure when. Censure's end may imply that Imperium Secundus is already established, and Stratagem references the assassination attempt. However, by Deathfire, the Red-Marked are already formerly established as per Stratagem.

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, while I'm disappointed there will be no hugely detailed massive Space Battle, I am curious as to what the fate of remaining Gloriana class ships among the 3 Legions. We know the Macragge's Honor survives since its Guilliman's Flagship in M42 but I wonder if the Red Tear and the Invincible Reason will be destroyed at this battle since its not there in M41.

 

Same. We all know that at some point HH/Scouring or after 'Macragge's Honor' dropped from the warp and joined the Imperial forces.

As for the Red Tear - something tells me that it would die over Terra.

As for the Invincible reason - maybe that's the one that would be destroyed in the 'Ruinstorm'.

 

Also it would be nice if according to the 'kiss principle' in warfare - united fleet assets of 3 Legions would wipe out some big traitoris battlegroup, preferably including with the 'Trisagion' or 'Blessed Lady'. I do sooo want both these ships dead

 

 

I think the Blessed Lady is already destroyed at this point. It is highly likely that is the wreck the Salamanders found in "Deathfire" at the outer edges of Ultramar. The one which was filled with Ultramarine and Word Bearer corpses.

 

The Trisaigon is still active since it went out of the Ruinstorm with Lorgar in the last pages of Betrayar.

 

 

True, but we already discussed that on the previous pages. The corpse of a Kingship in Deathfire was an editorial ruse from Laurie and Kyme for the story of Thiel (who became like an Ultrasmurf Rambo now). It was simply a burned out carcass of the 'Abyss' pushed from Macragge's orbit. Or as I said another Rambo Thiel story  - how he singlehandly (with a tactical squad of Smurfs in tow) destroyed a mighty 'kingship'

 

 

But the corpse of the Abyss was still over Macragge in Deathfire

 

 

True.  I did forget that point. So we will have 'Rambo Thiel story  - how he singlehandly (with a tactical squad of Smurfs in tow) destroyed a mighty 'kingship''

 

 

I dont think Thiel had anything to do with it. Remember that this was the description of the wreck:

 

“As large as the Charybdis was, it could fly through the gutted remains of this gargantuan hulk like a minnow through the carcass of a gnorl-whale, if carefully navigated.

Adyssian ordered Esenzi to take them through. Based on the last sensorium returns, she had already plotted a viable course that fell within acceptable risk parameters. They went in dark, their internal lumens kept low and their power signature to a minimum.

Too huge to go around, the massive ship effectively impeded their path. They had to forge through it but, given what could be lurking in the shadows, it was prudent to be cautious.

Within its ruptured innards, the hulk was no less impressive. Huge internal amphitheatres opened up beyond the ship’s ruined outer skin. Overhead, split gantries and walkways jutted from the interior like bones.

Whatever had befallen this behemoth, little more than a shell remained.

Through one hall, entire battle companies of legionaries were locked in combat, flash-frozen during a final engagement. Bodies clad in cobalt-blue and crimson, each rimed in hoarfrost, began to drift in the wake of the Charybdis’s passage. Some impacted against the shields, shattering into fragments. Others maintained their eternal[…]”

 

Excerpt From: Nick Kyme. “Deathfire.” iBooks. 

 

Sounds like a description of a massive battle/boarding action. Not something one squad did.

 

 

That goes after the ship was destroyed, so Thiel an co already stopped the ship, but now newcomers are fighting over the carcass.

 

 

Just to reiterate, the way I understood things, Thiel's plotline/appearance go as follows:

 

Know No Fear -> Censure -> Red-Marked -> Stratagem -> Deathfire

 

The Unremembered Empire goes somewhere between Censure and Stratagem, I'm not quite sure when. Censure's end may imply that Imperium Secundus is already established, and Stratagem references the assassination attempt. However, by Deathfire, the Red-Marked are already formerly established as per Stratagem.

 

Probably. But I think Red-Marked goes after the Strategem and before the Deathfire. And Red-Marked will definitely have a continuation that will end up with the destruction of the kingship.

Just my opinion

Edited August 3, 2017 by HeritorA

[JH79]

 

Just my opinionProbably. But I think Red-Marked goes after the Strategem and before the Deathfire. And Red-Marked will definitely have a continuation that will end up with the destruction of the kingship.

 

DC has the gist of it.

 

Red Marked takes place a very short time after Censure. By the end of Red Marked Thiel proved to a belligerent commanding officer that the worlds of Ultramar are still very much in danger but through unusual squad formations and tactics the enemy can be defeated. This saw the sign up of said commanding officer and something like 1k legionaries to join Thiel as Red Marked and begin their purge of traitor filth. Thiel then continues his journey to Macragg. Upon arrival the Alpha Legion assassination attempt has already happened as shown in The Unremembered Empire and Robute honours Thiel in a private conversation as seen in Stratagem. Deathfire then follows, though the time period between is unknown, possibly a few months or so.

 

I think this nugget of another Destroyed Kingship from Kyme is similar to Graham McNeill's very early hint at IS from the short story Rules of Engagement. It's something to be covered at a later date by someone else, hopefully as part of a full novel.

 

Given the timeframe of heresy's current events i think it possibly won't be covered in full until much later as more of a side story, similar to The Honoured / The Unburdened... or it could be handled by whoever picks up the Word Bearers / World Eaters plot threads which have been dangling for a while now.

 

Time will tell im sure 

[DarkChaplain]

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to more The Honoured/The Unburdened style side stories. There are plenty of places where more books could help fleshing out worlds and characters, outside the established road to Terra. I just don't think it should happen until The Primarchs is done and over with.

[HeritorA]

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to more The Honoured/The Unburdened style side stories. There are plenty of places where more books could help fleshing out worlds and characters, outside the established road to Terra. I just don't think it should happen until The Primarchs is done and over with.

I could take a Horus Heresy story over a Primarch one

[DukeLeto69]

 

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to more The Honoured/The Unburdened style side stories. There are plenty of places where more books could help fleshing out worlds and characters, outside the established road to Terra. I just don't think it should happen until The Primarchs is done and over with.

 

I could take a Horus Heresy story over a Primarch one

Same here. Not been inspired to buy any of the Primarch books yet.

[HeritorA]

 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to more The Honoured/The Unburdened style side stories. There are plenty of places where more books could help fleshing out worlds and characters, outside the established road to Terra. I just don't think it should happen until The Primarchs is done and over with.

I could take a Horus Heresy story over a Primarch one

Same here. Not been inspired to buy any of the Primarch books yet.

 

 

I do understand that DC prefer a road to destination not the conclusion. But some of us prefer main/side stories finished in the already 'almost' finished setting, instead of intermixing it already with the new prequel/sequel ones

[A D-B]

 

 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to more The Honoured/The Unburdened style side stories. There are plenty of places where more books could help fleshing out worlds and characters, outside the established road to Terra. I just don't think it should happen until The Primarchs is done and over with.

I could take a Horus Heresy story over a Primarch one

Same here. Not been inspired to buy any of the Primarch books yet.

 

 

I do understand that DC prefer a road to destination not the conclusion. But some of us prefer main/side stories finished in the already 'almost' finished setting, instead of intermixing it already with the new prequel/sequel ones

 

The series may be slow for you. Fine. All good. Whatever. But for the 800th time, it doesn't matter what else people write. Me, Dan, Jim, and five other guys could have been only writing HH novels for the last 18 months, and free for the next year to only write HH novels, and literally nothing would change in the HH release schedule.

 

"I want the series to go faster." = Fine.

"All of these other books are slowing the series down / are stealing focus from relevant stuff." = Nonsense.

 

I don't want to see the Han Solo movie that's coming out. But I'm not mad at it for slowing down The Last Jedi and Star Wars IX, because it isn't slowing them down. I'm not interested in it, so I won't go see it. I'm not mad that it's something different from the main arc. I'm just not interested. That's okay. Not everything is made for me. Not everything has to go at the speed I think it should go.

Edited August 4, 2017 by A D-B

[drooling blood]

Well no, it doesnt have to move at the speed of light. A bit faster than a snail, stuck in molasses, going up a hill would be good though.

Back when I started reading this series, universe, life job, what ever you want to call it.

i had 6/6 vision. Its now down to 6/12, just barely the legal requirement to drive, not at all at night and my back feels like its been replaced with a rake. 

Even though I know how it ends, Id like the minutiae before I cant see squat. No, audio books are not a substitute.

[DarkChaplain]

We're getting a book every other month already. That's more than basically any other series can say for itself, even Star Wars (which gets plenty of 24 page comic issues of highly variable quality, but maybe 3-4 actual novels a year).

 

I made the terrible mistake of reading the first book in Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive series, and the series, as is envisioned and planned out right now, will be running for about another 20 years from now. 20. How long have people been waiting for GRRM to continue ASoIaF? How long did Wheel of Time take before being finished by Sanderson?

 

Books aren't written in a day, especially vital key ones. Any normal trilogy will give you a book per year, which for many authors is already a race against deadlines. No, your favorite penmonkey can't write all the books in the series on his own. And even if BL would make away with those "side stories (which, in my eyes, are anything but, because they all feature key players in the Heresy War and need to be moved from A to B for the finale), you'd still be looking at a few years more. The entire release schedule wouldn't move up, it would just be missing the middle sections. Instead of getting a book every other month (even if they've been mostly (necessary) reprints this year), you'd be looking at one every 6, 8, 10 or 12.

 

Sometimes I wish we could go back to the early years' pace for a year, just to compare people's grievances. BL's ramped-up Horus Heresy schedule over the recent years really has spoiled us rotten.

[DogWelder]

You got a point about newer fans being a bit spoiled Dark Chaplain. I can attest to that myself.

 

I've actually only gotten into Warhammer 40k about a year ago when I got out of High School and I've like gone through most if not all of the Horus Heresy and Space Marine Battle books in a year. I was increasingly impatient for more until I learned that this new splurge in books, codicies and fluff development was a relatively new thing.

Edited August 4, 2017 by DogWelder

[veterannoob]

Not even Guy haley can pump out a book per week...  

[A D-B]

Well no, it doesnt have to move at the speed of light. A bit faster than a snail, stuck in molasses, going up a hill would be good though.

 

Yet again, please note I wasn't talking about the speed of the series. People can want it to move at whatever speed, and that's both totally fine and completely irrelevant. I was saying the reason it's slow isn't the reason Heritor was saying it was slow. People writing other things doesn't slow the series down. The two things aren't related.

 

Either way, rejoice! It's going to be over pretty soon. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by A D-B

[b1soul]

Yeah...I don't get the desire some fans to reach the end of the HH.

 

If it were to me, the HH and the GC would be a massive setting, like current 40k, and the main Heresy arc would just be one arc among many

[Kelborn]

*returning to this thread after several weeks*

*sees several discussions which are off topic, imho*

*sees yet again a discussion about release schedule of BL / GW*

 

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/062010/1275389857_naked-gun-facepalm.gif

 

Can we go back to topic please?

 

GW / BL / FW are companies. They got their own schedule for releasing stuff. Authors cannot be blamed for that. It's just something we have to live with. Besides, those "redundant" story arcs like Unremembered Empire add to the greater scheme of the HH. They help us understanding certain events and characters better than a straightforward 20 book series.

 

The HH series would have never worked as a 18 book series, with one book for each Legion, imho.

[Nazguire]

It must be so frustrating for a HH author to read some of the dribble being spouted on here - a series that has made Black Library an absolute motza and undoubtedly shone the spotlight on the careers of some BL authors that may otherwise likely not get that exposure is being wished to end by some fans for no real valid reason other than 'give me Terra already' and/or 'some of the stories I didn't personally like so the whole thing must be over the shark'.

 

If you don't like them, just don't read them and let the people who do enjoy them be able to do so in peace.

[HeritorA]

It must be so frustrating for a HH author to read some of the dribble being spouted on here - a series that has made Black Library an absolute motza and undoubtedly shone the spotlight on the careers of some BL authors that may otherwise likely not get that exposure is being wished to end by some fans for no real valid reason other than 'give me Terra already' and/or 'some of the stories I didn't personally like so the whole thing must be over the shark'.

 

If you don't like them, just don't read them and let the people who do enjoy them be able to do so in peace.

 

And again we all have our own opinions.

A D-B thinks he is right - ok, he has his points (more than all of us combined cause he is writing for them).

And DC has a point too. Especially about the number of titles etc.

 

But you haven't understood what I was pointing out:

1) Quantity of produced books DOES not make for quality. Book should contain a solid structure and should have a 'SOUL' for a fan to like it. A lot of latest releases (especially Horus Heresy and Gathering Storm/Dark Imperium etc.) do not have a soul.

I will take 1 PoD, PoH to Five or more 'Coraxes', 'Deathfire', 'Crimson King' etc.

2) 'It must be so frustrating for a HH author to read some of the dribble being spouted on here - a series that has made Black Library an absolute motza and undoubtedly shone the spotlight on the careers of some BL authors that may otherwise likely not get that exposure is being wished to end by some fans for no real valid reason other than 'give me Terra already' and/or 'some of the stories I didn't personally like so the whole thing must be over the shark'.'

- level of misundertandement in examples like Nazguire makes me bewildered.

Nobody ranting for it to end. What I talking about is to produce MAIN STORYDRIVEN BOOKS to exclude secondary storylines to LE or after the main serie being 'finished'

[Kelborn]

Ok, got your point, Heri.

 

But still, this is not the right thread to discuss this. We can open up a new one for this. Though I assume that many won't participate in order to avoid heart attacks. ;)

 

Although I do see your point in here, I slightly disagree. But I won't elaborate it because of the previously mentioned point of: this is not the right place.

 

If you want, we can discuss this via pm.

 

Everyone being cool again? Thanks!

[HeritorA]

Kelborn

Sure, you are right. We already had that discussion in another thread, so no point to go where  :)

[Brother Captain Kezef]

 

Well no, it doesnt have to move at the speed of light. A bit faster than a snail, stuck in molasses, going up a hill would be good though.

 

Yet again, please note I wasn't talking about the speed of the series. People can want it to move at whatever speed, and that's both totally fine and completely irrelevant. I was saying the reason it's slow isn't the reason Heritor was saying it was slow. People writing other things doesn't slow the series down. The two things aren't related.

 

Either way, rejoice! It's going to be over pretty soon. 

 

 

The HH series being over is nothing to rejoice

 

I do hope that the setting will be expanded, even after the siege of terror. I'd love to see the side-stories explored. Hell I'd love to see focus books on favourite characters.

[HeritorA]

 

 

Well no, it doesnt have to move at the speed of light. A bit faster than a snail, stuck in molasses, going up a hill would be good though.

 

Yet again, please note I wasn't talking about the speed of the series. People can want it to move at whatever speed, and that's both totally fine and completely irrelevant. I was saying the reason it's slow isn't the reason Heritor was saying it was slow. People writing other things doesn't slow the series down. The two things aren't related.

 

Either way, rejoice! It's going to be over pretty soon. 

 

 

The HH series being over is nothing to rejoice

 

I do hope that the setting will be expanded, even after the siege of terror. I'd love to see the side-stories explored. Hell I'd love to see focus books on favourite characters.

 

 

And that would be a splendid time to do additional characters in a new range of shiny limiteds etc.