Black Library Weekender 2017 date and tickets are up

[b1soul]

Wraight isn’t handling ‘the Siege’

 

Wraight is handling part of the Siege of Terra, though he may not be touching battles at the Palace walls. I think we're in agreement.

 

Swallow for Angels (sadly)

This is not confirmed, right.

 

It's gonna be Wraight, Annandale, and Haley with a helping of Abnett. Never heard Swallow's name mentioned.

 

I do wish French and ADB would be included as well

[Jareddm]

I would expect French has taken over the bulk of the lore for the Forge World HH books.

[ChildofFang]

Don’t think so, John French has a job within GW and he isn’t giving it up as far as I am aware from talking to him over the weekend.

 

Still think David Annandale said he was pretty much done with regards to the Heresy. He has a pretty long list of other books due to be out.

[bluntblade]

 

 

Wraight isn’t handling ‘the Siege’, Wraight is handlig the White Scars at the Siege, which is to say the Siege will get almost zero coverage, since the white Scars didn’t defend anything and spent the entirety of the battle away from the Palace. There are three legions at the Siege. That should be three novels. French for Fists, Swallow for Angels (sadly), and Wraight for Scars.

I don’t think that is correct. The Warhawk had a huge role. If he didn’t liberate the Lion’s Gate port, the Siege would have gone entirely different. Also, Jaghatai riding on top of a Land Raider is second only to Sang at the Gates in terms of iconic Siege lore to me.

You mean like... the Emperor dying and the golden age of the Imperium being doomed to decay and ultimately an eternity in a living hell at the hands of chaos?

Like the Palace being overwhelmed, Sanguinius dying at the Eternity Gate and the Emperor being torn off the Throne by Horus.

 

Restorer suggested to me that the Lion's Gate is within the Palace, just not the inner fortifications. Thing's as big as a continent after all.

Edited November 21, 2017 by bluntblade

[caladancid]

 

 

Wraight isn’t handling ‘the Siege’, Wraight is handlig the White Scars at the Siege, which is to say the Siege will get almost zero coverage, since the white Scars didn’t defend anything and spent the entirety of the battle away from the Palace. There are three legions at the Siege. That should be three novels. French for Fists, Swallow for Angels (sadly), and Wraight for Scars.

I don’t think that is correct. The Warhawk had a huge role. If he didn’t liberate the Lion’s Gate port, the Siege would have gone entirely different. Also, Jaghatai riding on top of a Land Raider is second only to Sang at the Gates in terms of iconic Siege lore to me.

You mean like... the Emperor dying and the golden age of the Imperium being doomed to decay and ultimately an eternity in a living hell at the hands of chaos?

No. I mean like the Death Guard all not being sent by Horus away from the Palace to fight the Scars, the Palace falling and Chaos taking over and having a fortress when the last few loyalists show up. That sort of thing.

[Marshal Rohr]

Oh wow, so the entirety of one whole legion was sent to fight the white Scars, stripping the ability of death guard players not to have to set their armies against one specific foe at the siege for the rest of time? Boy, that sure sounds like a good black library move. Edited November 21, 2017 by Marshal Rohr

[b1soul]

It's always been in the lore...a lot of WS fight a lot of DG at the Lion's Gate. I don't know if it's 100% vs. 100%...and even if it is, the Lion's Gate engagements don't last the whole Siege

[caladancid]

Oh wow, so the entirety of one whole legion was sent to fight the white Scars, stripping the ability of death guard players not to have to set their armies against one specific foe at the siege for the rest of time? Boy, that sure sounds like a good black library move.

I don’t understand the attitude.

 

You were not correct about the Scars during the Siege and therefore also wrong about Chris Wraight’s likely contribution to writing some of the Siege. Whether it’s a “good black library move” has nothing to do with this, it’s been around in the fluff since before the HH series started.

 

At first it seemed like you were not happy about the potentially limited involvement of Wraight. Now you seem not happy about his greater involvement? Either way, I am pretty pumped about the Scars, Chris Wraight writing them, and that the Siege will be given proper treatment. Join me on the light side.

[Marshal Rohr]

I love Chris Wraight, I’m not happy that he’s the only decent author on the job because he’s exclusively focuses on Scars, EC, and Death Guard while 2/3 of the heavy lifting done at the Siege is done by legions with little canonical interaction to the first scenario. It’s as if you’re saying, ‘man I’m super pumped to read about Okinawa’, and that means the writers of Twilight and Hunger Games will be in charge of Bastogne and Stalingrad. The people, like me who wanna read good, in depth and detailed stories about the fists and angels are left wanting.

 

The way the Heresy has been handled has been a massive disappointment.

 

And before anyone says ‘just wait and see’, when, honestly has that advice EVER planned out? Name one occasion where we ‘withheld judgement’ and the finished product still wasn’t total trash.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Marshal Rohr

[caladancid]

I love Chris Wraight, I’m not happy that he’s the only decent author on the job because he’s exclusively focuses on Scars, EC, and Death Guard while 2/3 of the heavy lifting done at the Siege is done by legions with little canonical interaction to the first scenario. It’s as if you’re saying, ‘man I’m super pumped to read about Okinawa’, and that means the writers of Twilight and Hunger Games will be in charge of Bastogne and Stalingrad. The people, like me who wanna read good, in depth and detailed stories about the fists and angels are left wanting.

 

The way the Heresy has been handled has been a massive disappointment.

 

And before anyone says ‘just wait and see’, when, honestly has that advice EVER planned out? Name one occasion where we ‘withheld judgement’ and the finished product still wasn’t total trash.

You are focusing only on the Siege? John French has crushed the Fists otherwise.

 

And, before you continue down the crazy train of Guy Haley and the Blood Angels being a bad combo for the Siege, should check out his recent 40k BA novels. He’s pretty gud.

[Tymell]

I love Chris Wraight, I’m not happy that he’s the only decent author on the job because he’s exclusively focuses on Scars, EC, and Death Guard while 2/3 of the heavy lifting done at the Siege is done by legions with little canonical interaction to the first scenario. It’s as if you’re saying, ‘man I’m super pumped to read about Okinawa’, and that means the writers of Twilight and Hunger Games will be in charge of Bastogne and Stalingrad. The people, like me who wanna read good, in depth and detailed stories about the fists and angels are left wanting.

 

The way the Heresy has been handled has been a massive disappointment.

 

 

To each their own, but I think it's pretty unfair to outright dismiss both Guy Haley and David Annandale as not even "decent" authors. And especially to compare either of them to Stephenie Meyer

 

 

And before anyone says ‘just wait and see’, when, honestly has that advice EVER planned out? Name one occasion where we ‘withheld judgement’ and the finished product still wasn’t total trash.

 

Maybe others mean it differently, but to me "just wait and see" doesn't mean "It's going to be awesome", it means "Don't assume it's going to suck". It means wait for the actual product before you decide it's trash and go off on a rant about it.

 

I can't speak for you specifically, or any other forum member, but I've enjoyed plenty of stories where I held off on judgement. I mean, I try to hold off on judging anything in the series until I've actually, y'know, read it. And I could point to a ton of such instances if we're not even just talking about HH.

 

Of course, there are some authors and stories I enjoy more than others, and I'm sure most folks have expectations about a book going in, positive or negative. But are you really saying "everything Annandale and Haley have done is garbage"? If you do feel that way, then yeah, I guess the Siege might not be for you. If you don't, and you think they at least have a chance of turning out something good, then sorry, but I am indeed going to say "wait and see".

Edited November 21, 2017 by Tymell

[Ranwulf]

Oh wow, so the entirety of one whole legion was sent to fight the white Scars, stripping the ability of death guard players not to have to set their armies against one specific foe at the siege for the rest of time? Boy, that sure sounds like a good black library move.

That was already cannon, and more importantly, the same argument could be made for anything in this game. 

 

"Why the Ultramarines are the only ones that fight Word Bearers on Calth?"

"Why the Dark Angels only major fight was with the Night Lords?"

"Why the Space Wolves only fought the Thousand Sons?"

 

Ran

[A D-B]

 

I know I'm linking reddit but here's some other impressions from the weekender, some but not all of which has been mentioned elsewhere: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/7e1vxy/black_library_weekender_2017_revealations_siege/

-Guy Hayley, Christ Wraight, and David Annandale will handle most of the siege of Terra stuff

 

I think that's either a staggering misinterpretation, or... Uh, well. It's not even close to true. I can't even imagine what was said to give someone that idea.

 

 

I’m still in shock they didn’t go to any of the heavy hitters to cover the siege. That’s just.... why?

 

See above.

 

 

 

I’ve just never been a fan. His 40k Templars left a bad taste in my mouth and I found Pharos ending to unrealistic and campy. Not to mention his desire to make literally everything connect across the eras (Tyranids being attracted to the Pharos beacon was downright stupid).

Hold on there.  By Haley's, ADB's, and Goulding's word, connecting the Pharos to the Tyranids was something specifically requested by Alan Merrett.

 

I don't think that's true. (I certainly never said it, at least.) I argued against it over email, quite adamantly. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by A D-B

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Oh wow, so the entirety of one whole legion was sent to fight the white Scars, stripping the ability of death guard players not to have to set their armies against one specific foe at the siege for the rest of time? Boy, that sure sounds like a good black library move.

That was already cannon, and more importantly, the same argument could be made for anything in this game.

 

"Why the Ultramarines are the only ones that fight Word Bearers on Calth?"

"Why the Dark Angels only major fight was with the Night Lords?"

"Why the Space Wolves only fought the Thousand Sons?"

 

Ran

You’re mischaracterizing my argument. The entire white Scars and death guard legions don’t need to follow Khan around the for the whole siege. If I want my brotherhood of scars on the palace walls, I shouldn’t have to do mental gymnastics to explain why they are there. If I wanna write my army fighting plague marines I shouldn’t have to be confined to one geographic area. It makes no sense in universe or out of universe to do it like that.

 

 

 

I know I'm linking reddit but here's some other impressions from the weekender, some but not all of which has been mentioned elsewhere: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/7e1vxy/black_library_weekender_2017_revealations_siege/

-Guy Hayley, Christ Wraight, and David Annandale will handle most of the siege of Terra stuff

I think that's either a staggering misinterpretation, or... Uh, well. It's not even close to true. I can't even imagine what was said to give someone that idea.

 

I’m still in shock they didn’t go to any of the heavy hitters to cover the siege. That’s just.... why?

See above.

 

 

 

I’ve just never been a fan. His 40k Templars left a bad taste in my mouth and I found Pharos ending to unrealistic and campy. Not to mention his desire to make literally everything connect across the eras (Tyranids being attracted to the Pharos beacon was downright stupid).

Hold on there. By Haley's, ADB's, and Goulding's word, connecting the Pharos to the Tyranids was something specifically requested by Alan Merrett.

I don't think that's true. (I certainly never said it, at least.) I argued against it over email, quite adamantly.

Thank Christ

[Jareddm]

 

 

I’ve just never been a fan. His 40k Templars left a bad taste in my mouth and I found Pharos ending to unrealistic and campy. Not to mention his desire to make literally everything connect across the eras (Tyranids being attracted to the Pharos beacon was downright stupid).

Hold on there.  By Haley's, ADB's, and Goulding's word, connecting the Pharos to the Tyranids was something specifically requested by Alan Merrett.

 

I don't think that's true. (I certainly never said it, at least.) I argued against it over email, quite adamantly. 

 

Understood.  Your name will be removed as a source from future mentions of this.  Though according to this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/4rfu92/scariest_warhammer_entity/d514pw8/

(I feel dirty using a quote of a quote for this instead of the original link.  My old links to The First Expedition seem to no longer work) it was Mr. Merrett who first suggested the idea?

Edited November 21, 2017 by Jareddm

[caladancid]

 

 

 

Oh wow, so the entirety of one whole legion was sent to fight the white Scars, stripping the ability of death guard players not to have to set their armies against one specific foe at the siege for the rest of time? Boy, that sure sounds like a good black library move.

That was already cannon, and more importantly, the same argument could be made for anything in this game.

 

"Why the Ultramarines are the only ones that fight Word Bearers on Calth?"

"Why the Dark Angels only major fight was with the Night Lords?"

"Why the Space Wolves only fought the Thousand Sons?"

 

Ran

You’re mischaracterizing my argument. The entire white Scars and death guard legions don’t need to follow Khan around the for the whole siege. If I want my brotherhood of scars on the palace walls, I shouldn’t have to do mental gymnastics to explain why they are there. If I wanna write my army fighting plague marines I shouldn’t have to be confined to one geographic area. It makes no sense in universe or out of universe to do it like that.

 

 

 

I know I'm linking reddit but here's some other impressions from the weekender, some but not all of which has been mentioned elsewhere: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/7e1vxy/black_library_weekender_2017_revealations_siege/

-Guy Hayley, Christ Wraight, and David Annandale will handle most of the siege of Terra stuff

I think that's either a staggering misinterpretation, or... Uh, well. It's not even close to true. I can't even imagine what was said to give someone that idea.

 

I’m still in shock they didn’t go to any of the heavy hitters to cover the siege. That’s just.... why?

See above.

 

 

 

I’ve just never been a fan. His 40k Templars left a bad taste in my mouth and I found Pharos ending to unrealistic and campy. Not to mention his desire to make literally everything connect across the eras (Tyranids being attracted to the Pharos beacon was downright stupid).

Hold on there. By Haley's, ADB's, and Goulding's word, connecting the Pharos to the Tyranids was something specifically requested by Alan Merrett.

I don't think that's true. (I certainly never said it, at least.) I argued against it over email, quite adamantly.

Thank Christ

It is still a rather entitled argument to make that the Siege and existing lore for the Siege should be edited to allow for personal ‘headcanon.’

 

I thought that ADB not liking the Tyranid part of Pharos was common knowledge? He was certainly clear in his dislike here in this subforum in the Pharos discussion soon after it was released.

 

I took the Alan Merrett comment to be more a source identifier.

[Sandlemad]

Oh wow, so the entirety of one whole legion was sent to fight the white Scars, stripping the ability of death guard players not to have to set their armies against one specific foe at the siege for the rest of time? Boy, that sure sounds like a good black library move.

 

Wait, where are you getting this from? It's not clear to me if this idea that the entire DG legion was fighting the WS exclusively is something you picked up somewhere, something you're responding to from caladancid, or something you mooted as a bad possibility.

 

EDIT: Ok, I think I follow your argument and your concerns about who's covering what on Terra but... "literally every member of the DG fighting every member of the WS outside the walls" has surely never been in the background, or only been mentioned in high-level detail-less like Visions of Heresy. It's as easily circumvented as any other of Ranwulf's examples. "My Dudes were not at the liberation of the Lion's Gate because they were tasked with defending the southern redoubt, etc, etc"

Edited November 21, 2017 by Sandlemad

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

Oh wow, so the entirety of one whole legion was sent to fight the white Scars, stripping the ability of death guard players not to have to set their armies against one specific foe at the siege for the rest of time? Boy, that sure sounds like a good black library move.

That was already cannon, and more importantly, the same argument could be made for anything in this game.

 

"Why the Ultramarines are the only ones that fight Word Bearers on Calth?"

"Why the Dark Angels only major fight was with the Night Lords?"

"Why the Space Wolves only fought the Thousand Sons?"

 

Ran

You’re mischaracterizing my argument. The entire white Scars and death guard legions don’t need to follow Khan around the for the whole siege. If I want my brotherhood of scars on the palace walls, I shouldn’t have to do mental gymnastics to explain why they are there. If I wanna write my army fighting plague marines I shouldn’t have to be confined to one geographic area. It makes no sense in universe or out of universe to do it like that.

 

I know I'm linking reddit but here's some other impressions from the weekender, some but not all of which has been mentioned elsewhere: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/7e1vxy/black_library_weekender_2017_revealations_siege/

-Guy Hayley, Christ Wraight, and David Annandale will handle most of the siege of Terra stuff

I think that's either a staggering misinterpretation, or... Uh, well. It's not even close to true. I can't even imagine what was said to give someone that idea.

 

I’m still in shock they didn’t go to any of the heavy hitters to cover the siege. That’s just.... why?

See above.

 

 

I’ve just never been a fan. His 40k Templars left a bad taste in my mouth and I found Pharos ending to unrealistic and campy. Not to mention his desire to make literally everything connect across the eras (Tyranids being attracted to the Pharos beacon was downright stupid).

Hold on there. By Haley's, ADB's, and Goulding's word, connecting the Pharos to the Tyranids was something specifically requested by Alan Merrett.

I don't think that's true. (I certainly never said it, at least.) I argued against it over email, quite adamantly.

Thank Christ

It is still a rather entitled argument to make that the Siege and existing lore for the Siege should be edited to allow for personal ‘headcanon.’

 

I thought that ADB not liking the Tyranid part of Pharos was common knowledge? He was certainly clear in his dislike here in this subforum in the Pharos discussion soon after it was released.

 

I took the Alan Merrett comment to be more a source identifier.

 

 

You know there is a game attached to this lore that comes with miniatures and costs tons of money right? You're right its entitled, we pay for this . . And to have thousands of dollars of models potentially invalidated so a single author could pursue a narrative that some people may not like is reckless. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Marshal Rohr

[Tymell]

 

 

 

 

Oh wow, so the entirety of one whole legion was sent to fight the white Scars, stripping the ability of death guard players not to have to set their armies against one specific foe at the siege for the rest of time? Boy, that sure sounds like a good black library move.

That was already cannon, and more importantly, the same argument could be made for anything in this game.

 

"Why the Ultramarines are the only ones that fight Word Bearers on Calth?"

"Why the Dark Angels only major fight was with the Night Lords?"

"Why the Space Wolves only fought the Thousand Sons?"

 

Ran

You’re mischaracterizing my argument. The entire white Scars and death guard legions don’t need to follow Khan around the for the whole siege. If I want my brotherhood of scars on the palace walls, I shouldn’t have to do mental gymnastics to explain why they are there. If I wanna write my army fighting plague marines I shouldn’t have to be confined to one geographic area. It makes no sense in universe or out of universe to do it like that.

 

I know I'm linking reddit but here's some other impressions from the weekender, some but not all of which has been mentioned elsewhere: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/7e1vxy/black_library_weekender_2017_revealations_siege/

-Guy Hayley, Christ Wraight, and David Annandale will handle most of the siege of Terra stuff

I think that's either a staggering misinterpretation, or... Uh, well. It's not even close to true. I can't even imagine what was said to give someone that idea.

 

I’m still in shock they didn’t go to any of the heavy hitters to cover the siege. That’s just.... why?

See above.

 

 

I’ve just never been a fan. His 40k Templars left a bad taste in my mouth and I found Pharos ending to unrealistic and campy. Not to mention his desire to make literally everything connect across the eras (Tyranids being attracted to the Pharos beacon was downright stupid).

Hold on there. By Haley's, ADB's, and Goulding's word, connecting the Pharos to the Tyranids was something specifically requested by Alan Merrett.

I don't think that's true. (I certainly never said it, at least.) I argued against it over email, quite adamantly.

Thank Christ

It is still a rather entitled argument to make that the Siege and existing lore for the Siege should be edited to allow for personal ‘headcanon.’

 

I thought that ADB not liking the Tyranid part of Pharos was common knowledge? He was certainly clear in his dislike here in this subforum in the Pharos discussion soon after it was released.

 

I took the Alan Merrett comment to be more a source identifier.

 

 

You know there is a game attached to this lore that comes with miniatures and costs tons of money right? You're right its entitled, we pay for this . . And to have thousands of dollars of models potentially invalidated so a single author could pursue a narrative that some people may not like is reckless. 

 

 

Nothing BL has ever done or will do now will "invalidate" your models or army.

[bluntblade]

I can think of maybe one incident where absolutely every member of a Legion was present, and that's the Ultramarines wrecking Tasgulsua(?)

[Sandlemad]

 

You know there is a game attached to this lore that comes with miniatures and costs tons of money right? You're right its entitled, we pay for this . . And to have thousands of dollars of models potentially invalidated so a single author could pursue a narrative that some people may not like is reckless. 

 

 

Who's doing that though? Who is even saying it's going to happen?

 

This... speculative scenario, it's the easiest thing in the world to just step around. "My dudes were fighting as part of Corax's liberation forces and weren't on Terra". "My dudes were locked down in fighting in another sector and could join the push on the Lion's Gate". "My dudes missed Prospero because they garrisoning an allied forge world". "My dudes weren't at Signus because they were on crusade at the galactic fringes".

 

Like, this isn't a problem. Even if it's something specific - I think I saw a blog with a specific company of heresy Ultramarines change their plans after Tempest put them in a specific part of Calth - you can easily say 'elements of the company/battalion/chapter' or something similar. 

[caladancid]

I am also very excited that a new Ciaphas Cain novel is coming out.  It has been way too long. Was there any mention about whether it was set before or after Dark Imperium?

 

The fact that Darius Hinks's Mephiston novel is getting a sequel makes me think I should read the first one now.

[Ranwulf]

 

 

You know there is a game attached to this lore that comes with miniatures and costs tons of money right? You're right its entitled, we pay for this . . And to have thousands of dollars of models potentially invalidated so a single author could pursue a narrative that some people may not like is reckless. 

 

 

Who's doing that though? Who is even saying it's going to happen?

 

This... speculative scenario, it's the easiest thing in the world to just step around. "My dudes were fighting as part of Corax's liberation forces and weren't on Terra". "My dudes were locked down in fighting in another sector and could join the push on the Lion's Gate". "My dudes missed Prospero because they garrisoning an allied forge world". "My dudes weren't at Signus because they were on crusade at the galactic fringes".

 

Like, this isn't a problem. Even if it's something specific - I think I saw a blog with a specific company of heresy Ultramarines change their plans after Tempest put them in a specific part of Calth - you can easily say 'elements of the company/battalion/chapter' or something similar. 

 

I have no idea where the hell the idea the only enemy the Death Guard or the White Scars will face will be each other. It seems it comes from a comment from caladancid that somehow was interpreted into the idea that the whole White Scars and Death Guard would face only each other.

 

Ran

[caladancid]

 

 

 

You know there is a game attached to this lore that comes with miniatures and costs tons of money right? You're right its entitled, we pay for this . . And to have thousands of dollars of models potentially invalidated so a single author could pursue a narrative that some people may not like is reckless. 

 

 

Who's doing that though? Who is even saying it's going to happen?

 

This... speculative scenario, it's the easiest thing in the world to just step around. "My dudes were fighting as part of Corax's liberation forces and weren't on Terra". "My dudes were locked down in fighting in another sector and could join the push on the Lion's Gate". "My dudes missed Prospero because they garrisoning an allied forge world". "My dudes weren't at Signus because they were on crusade at the galactic fringes".

 

Like, this isn't a problem. Even if it's something specific - I think I saw a blog with a specific company of heresy Ultramarines change their plans after Tempest put them in a specific part of Calth - you can easily say 'elements of the company/battalion/chapter' or something similar. 

 

I have no idea where the hell the idea the only enemy the Death Guard or the White Scars will face will be each other. It seems it comes from a comment from caladancid that somehow was interpreted into the idea that the whole White Scars and Death Guard would face only each other.

 

Ran

 

 

Yeah I think when I said something like "Horus sent all the Death Guard to deal with the Scars it made a difference" that provoked quite a reaction.  Had I know that it would take such a turn, I might have used a different estimate like 96 percent or something haha.  The point was, the Scars are a big deal at the Siege and I'm excited for it.

[b1soul]

You’re mischaracterizing my argument. The entire white Scars and death guard legions don’t need to follow Khan around the for the whole siege.

I think you're mischaracterising lore...

 

Which BL statement sets such a constricting scenario in stone?

 

EDIT:

And to have thousands of dollars of models potentially invalidated so a single author could pursue a narrative that some people may not like is reckless.

This imaginary narrative is something you've inexplicably latched onto as an outlet for your misplaced angst.

 

...and even if it were set in stone (which it certainly isn't), it could be easily side-stepped or even ignored.

 

Regardless, BL isn't going to say "every single WS was fighting every single DG for the entire duration of the Siege of Terra".

Edited November 22, 2017 by b1soul