Liber Primaris - Things to consider

[Kelborn]

Hey there,

 

with the coming release of the 8th edition and the new setting of the Dark Imperium and all of its manifold opportunities, we already see some attempts of creating Primaris only chapters.

 

While sitting in traffic, I thought about the different possibilities of creating such chapters and how they would interact with their brothers and the wider Imperium itself.

 

Therefore, this is my attempt of writing down some things and questions, which we could / should consider while working on Primaris chapters. With some feedback and discussion, this might evolve into a guideline or a template, who knows? :)

 

What do we know thus far about the Primaris?

 

• made from the geneseed of every loyal Legion
• it seems that Cawl took recruits from the respective homeworlds
• they were put to stasis for 10K, thus they might not know anything of what happened in the meantime
• there might be great differences between the Primaris (who are somehow the 30K equivalent of their 40K brothers in terms of ideology and way of thinking) and the Astartes Marines
• about 30% "better" than the average Marine
• equipped with better and more advanced wargear
• still likely to getting corrupted by Chaos, though they are said to be more resilient to such powers
• after the Indomitus Crusade: 10 chapters joined RG, rest was either formed into separate chapters or reviving lost ones or allocated to depleted Astartes chapters
• there is the slight chance of Cawl using even traitor and Lost Legion geneseed (if he haven't done it already in secret)

Things to consider about the interaction between Astartes and Primaris marines:

 

I - Dark Angels

 

• Would the Inner Circle accept Primaris into their ranks?
• Will they inform them about the Fallen or would they distrust them because of their relationship with RG and Cawl?
• Would a Primaris chapter even participate in the hunt for the Fallen?
• How would a Primaris chapter deal with all the secrecy and distrust within the Legion of the Unforgiven?
• Would a Primaris chapter adapt the Unforgiven's structures or would they stick to the Codex?

V - White Scars

• No real idea except the usual: How will they interact with each other?
• Relying on other ideas :)

VI - Space Wolves

• Will the Primaris suffer and turn into Wulfen as well?
• Will the independent loving Space Wolves accept their new brothers? Bjorn once said that the Hardening (attempt of creating SW successors) was a major mistake, which would not be approved by Russ. Furthermore, Harald Deathwolf and others were suspicious about their Wulfen brothers priory. Will the Primaris be any different?
• Will they recruit from Fenris as well?
• Will we maybe see a more Viking-ish, crusading, fleet-based chapter?
• Who approved taking Fenrisians to turn into Primaris? Did Cawl that in secret or did he had a bargain with Russ or one of his Jarls?

VII - Imperial Fists

• same with the White Scars
• Only question I got would be: Will the Primaris be as masochistic as their brothers?

IX - Blood Angels

• 4 words: Black Rage & Red Thirst
• How do the Primaris deal with them? Executions? Locking their affected brothers up?
• Will they be helpless? Did Cawl inform them about it?
• Will the Primaris be the Blood Angels' salvation?

X - Iron Hands

• "Flesh is weak" - Does this count for the Primaris as well?
• How will they react when meeting their cyborg-ish brothers?
• Seeing their new, improved brothers, will the Iron Hands get even more obsessed with improving themselves?
• Or will they maybe abandon their path of steeling themselves?

XIII - Ultramarines

• How do the Ultramarines feel when looking at their new brothers?
• Do they feel obsolete? Thunder Warriors 2.0?
• Calgar doesn't feel good since RG awoke. Will they still follow his (somehow) radical word?
• RG got 10 Primaris chapters right away. Will he tread them better than his "old" sons?

XVIII - Salamanders

• Will the Primaris join their brothers quest of obtaining Vulkan's artifacts? Or will they rather concentrate on real threats?
• Will they be caring as well?
• Do they react to certain radiation?
• Will the Salamanders augment their own ranks with Primaris Marines or will they form a successor chapter?

XIX - Raven Guard

• As far as we know, is the Primaris genessed fixed and stable. Does that mean, we got Raptor-ish Raven Guard Primaris? Will they be pale as well?
• Corax was known to be very caring for mankind. Will his Primaris sons follow this route?

 

Things to consider about traitor and Lost Legion Primaris:

 

Traitor Legions

• Do the Primaris know of their heritage?
• Where did the recruits came from? Did Cawl took some of the Legion's homeworlds or a different stock of people?
• Will they follow the same path as their corrupted brothers?
• Will they make use of the same combat doctrine? We've seen the Minotaurs being very close to the 30K Iron Warriors or the Red Scorpions being obsessed with purity like the 30K Emperor's Children
• Will certain flaws affect them like the flesh change? Cawl did not got rid of the Blood Angels' and Space Wolves' flaws.
• How would they react if they found out about their heritage?
• Would a Night Lord traitor recognize his Primaris brother via warp shenanigans?
• How do the Dark Gods see the Primaris? Another tool for their eternal war? A serious threat to themselves?

Lost Legions

• Do the Primaris know of their heritage?
• Would anyone except Cawl know about their geneseed's source?
• Lost Legion Primaris might be a wildcard but still, they could turn out into a good basement for individual, innovative chapter concepts.

 

That's all for now. Hope this will help some in creating their new, 8th edition chapters. :)

 

Don't hesitate to share your thoughts. There are (most likely) a lot of other questions and things which need to be considered as well. :)

 

cheers,

 

Kelborn

[Quixus]

Interesting and very thorough write up. Concerning the I Legion, I think members of the inner circle will be prime candidates for the treatment, since regular marines can be upgraded to Primaris Marines. They already know most of the secrets and Azrael will have more powerful marines hunting the Fallen.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Quixus

[Welcheren]

Interesting and very thorough write up. Concerning the I Legion, I think members of the inner circle will be prime candidates for the treatment, since regular marines can be upgraded to Primaris Marines. They already know most of the secrets and Azrael will have more powerful marines hunting the Fallen.

 

 

From another perspective, this might be a prime reason why a Dark Angels Primaris chapter, created by RG is excluded from the Unfrogiven.

 

I have it from Caldersson's discussion in the Wolves' Pit that some Primaris chapters were created as the Indomitus Crusade progressed, in order to address particular needs (see * below). Let's imagine that a DA Primaris chapter is created in order to liberate a certain area and then to guard that area for whatever reason, so that the rest of the Crusade can continue.

 

Azrael might well dispatch a cadre of Chaplains and other officers to meet and watch over the new chapters. At the same time, precisely because existing members of the Inner Cirlce can undergo the Primaris treatment, Azraeal and co. might decide that it's a good idea to watch over this new chapter, but keep them in the dark vis-a-vis the Fallen. The Inner Circle would not miss out on new developments if trusted chapters undergo treatments, while simultaneously playing their cards as close as possible.

 

Basically, I am trying to imagine the Inner Cirlce's thought process. Why take the risk of letting an entirely new chapter, with its command structure and hierarchy already in place, in on the old secret, when doing so is unnecessary, because your trusted brothers can be bolstered to Primaris level?

 

I am probably missing something.

 

 

 

 

*

“As the Indomitus Crusade progressed, the Unnumbered Sons had dwindled. Roboute Guilliman took them from their companies and their squads, and he assigned them to understrength Space Marines Chapters encountered on the way. Whole companies might be hived off, or only a few units. Sometimes the primarch took them by the hundred to create new Chapters where he saw the need…”

Edited June 15, 2017 by Welcheren

[Quixus]

I agree, chapters created by RG probably will not be informed about the Fallen, but existing memeber of the Inner Cricle like Belial and Deathwing could use the upgrade.

[Gearcrow]

I agree with Welcheren that this seems like a likely thought process for the Inner Circle, and we should probably assume it's something along those lines until we get official confirmation otherwise in the lore. I can imagine there's quite a bit of isolation or separation between Primaris chapters and their Primogenitors, at least in the DAs case, what with all their secret squirrel stuff.

[Kelborn]

My copy of the 8th edition rulebook arrived today. It got about 170 pages (from 280) full of fluff, etc.

 

As far as I've seen, there are no new details on the Primaris per se. Just a more detailed describtion of Mark X.

 

BUT it really gives a good overview about every faction in the Dark Imperium era, including several Warzones across the Imperium.

 

I'll see if there's anything for us to consider regarding Primaris chapters, etc. and update this thread from time to time. The Warzones caught my interest, so their section will be the first to be dealt with. :)

[Kelborn]

Here's a summary of all mentioned Warzones. If each of them will get it's own Warzone book, I'm looking forward Stygius, the Bloodcrusade and the War in the Rift.

As I've got the German one, I have to translate. Therefore, bear with me if something's not correct. ^^"

 

 

*BEWARE OF POTENTIAL SPOILERS*

 

Warzone: Ultramar (this one was already leaked)

• Main forces: Ultramarines (plus Successors, etc.) VS. Nurgle's forces (Death Guard, tons of demons, etc.)
• Main leaders: Roboute Guiliman VS. Mortarion, Typhus & Ku'gath Plaguefather
• Three sparheads into the realm of Ultramar; at first very successfull
• RGs return from the Indomitus Crusade enables the defenders to drive the traitors back, leading to the combination of Mortarions and Ku'gaths forces
• fight across three systems (Masati, Veridia & Talasa); Macragge was bombarded and target of cult infiltrators, binding as much of the loyal forces as possible
• war ends in a draw, several worlds being devasted, billions have died, the so called Pestworlds / Pestplanets are founded, which are situated at the northern borders of Ultramar, being the first chaos realm on the mortal plain
• RG only "won" because Mortarion and his allies were called back into the Rift
•  

Cadia's Fall

• Main forces: Abaddons 13th Black Crusade VS. Astra Militarum (plus Astartes, etc.)
• Main leaders: Abaddon VS. several imperial leaders (no named one)
• With Cadia being lost, did the war reschedule on the adjacted systems and worlds, each of them being heavily fortified and a bulwark of its own
• Although being heavily outnumbered did the imperial forces halt Abaddons crusade; at first through sheer heroism and incredible acts of self-sacrifice; but then because of the discord within the traitorous forces
• Without the ultimate victory did every warband leader want to gather as much prey as possible, leading to the fragmentation of the 13th Black Crusade
• that enabled the imperial defenders to loosen the grip of Chaos

Warzone: Stygius

• Main forces: Thousand Sons (plus demonhosts of Tzeentch, etc. & Night Lords) VS. the Stygius / Stygian (?) Crusade (Iron Hands, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, etc.)
• Main leaders: Tzeentch, Magnus, no other named leader VS. no named leaders
• Tzeentch got jealous of Nurgles newly created Pestworlds; thus he wanted a realm for himself and decided to get his grip on the Stygius sector, which consists of 9 Sub-Sektors, each havin 9 star systems
• Millions of plans unfold when cultists start revolts on certain worlds, leading to the summoning of Magnus and his Thousand Sons
• dozens of demonic warhosts flooded the worlds
• 7 of 9 sub sectors were already conquered, when the imperial reinforcements (most notably the entirety of the SW plus Iron Hands and Dark Angels along some of their successors) arrived
• at first, the imperials were able to fend off the traitors and end the siege of Mordian (one of the last worlds which had not fall)
• as the Crusade was not equipped with the necessary stuff (because of being hastily cobbled together) do Tzeentch's forces gain the upper hand again
• in the end, Tzeentch is successful and obtains the Stygius sector; the Crusade was able to retreat because of an arriving detachment of the Ulthwé, covering their retreat

The Bloodcrusade:

• Khorne send out his forces, surfing on warpstorms (which are named Bloodwaves), annihilating everything in the most bloody way
• the continue to do so and were only halted at two occasions
• one being the Octarius system; there, we got an incredible slaughterhouse when Khorne's followers were met by none other than Ghazghkull and hivefleet Leviathan *personal note: I'd love to see this orgy of carnage )
• second being Khorne himself being stopped by his brother Tzeentch, when he told him about the War in the Rift; thus, Khorne called back his forces

The following are only about one paragraph in length and two maps, which depict the Warzone's location on the greater map and the systems they are situated in.

 

Craftworld Iyanden:

• Iyanden is attacked by a demonhost led by N'Kisha, a Keeper of Secrets
• it might have fallen if a strike force, consisting of all bred of Eldar (Dark Eldar, Harlequin, Exodites, Ynnari) haven't arrive to fend of N'Kisha
• although Iyanden was saved, the Aeldari are still split

Armageddon:

• Armageddon was turned into a literaly hell
• armies of demons ravaged it's surface as it was not separated from the Warp anymore
• luckily for both, Orks and Imperials, did the demons fight against each other, enabling them to evacuate
• due to communication problems is it not known, how many imperial defenders were saved

War in the Rift:

• Khorne and Tzeentch attacked Nurgle's newly risen playground, the Pestworlds
• the war escalated when Nurgle's officers returned from Ultramar
• Slaanesh, being a pain in the ass, changed their allegiance from time to time
• the titanic clash of the greatest demons happens of Vigrid
• the war ended when Tzeentch suggested a competition of their greatest champions; all four gods agree

 

Cool stuff going on right now. Though I'd say that Ultramar was not THAT necessary, it settles up the creation of the Pestworlds. Kind of sad (but still fitting) that Chaos is not able to achieve something, when unified. But I'm glad / satisfied that Tzeentch gets some : done and establishs his own realm in the Dark Imperium.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Kelborn

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

If the primaris provide a catalyst for the Iron Hands to switch back to flesh is strong I'll be happy. If not I'll lock the smoldering anger up for a while longer.

[Welcheren]

I suppose that depends, at least in part, to how Primaris Iron Hands feel about their Primarch's death.

[Banelord]

Aren’t Cypher and Roboute Guilliman allies at the moment? This could mean that Roboute has a “version” of the fallen story and depending on what has been been said could cause problems for the Unforgiven when it comes to getting primaris marines. It could even set up another interesting story for the return of the lion.

[Kelborn]

They were.

 

Right at the door leading to the Emperor did RG betray Cypher und took him under arrest. Though RG was thankful for his previous help, he reckognized Cyphers blade and was suspicious of his intentions. Along with his Fallen brothers, were they encaged within the eternal halls of the palace. Few hours later, Cypher escaped again.