Captains in 8th

[Thoridon]

Just in case anyone isn't fed up of my charts, here's my look at Captains in 8th (as I had a look at my various Captain options).

 

http://i.imgur.com/cr4Kvyx.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/IsJ644K.jpg

 

I kept the scales the same to show how much more you get out of the melee side. As with all my charts, D6 is modelled as 3.5 and D3 as 2 - I'm looking at the long term expected averages here. In this case I also have the Captain's reroll of 1s to hit enabled.

 

Melee

The thing that stands out for me is the same as with the DC, and that's how far ahead the Hammer is on anything that has multiple wounds. The fixed 3 damage is perfect on a character with so many attacks, and as the Captain hits on a 2+ (3+ with the Hammer) and can reroll 1s you're going to get excellent value for the 25 points, only having 2s unable to reroll.

 

The Fist and Hammer are both better than the basic power weapons even against weaker targets, with only the pair of Lightning Claws better against T3 and equal against MEQ (due to the extra attack and wound rerolls). That said, it's far weaker against anything with multiple wounds or higher toughness so do you really want to focus a Captain on anti-horde?

 

The Relic Blade is an interesting one, never the best but always in the top 2-3. That said, the difference compared to others options against weak targets is minimal and when it comes to the big targets the Hammer is clearly a long way ahead so I'm not sure the Relic Blade is a wise option against the current Hammer. The Hammer in the hands of a Captain just does pretty much everything better than the rest, and unlike DC it doesn't prevent taking a pistol/ranged weapon. Still, a Relic is better than a basic power weapon across the board.

 

The basic power weapons (Sword, Axe and Maul/Lance) and default Chainsword simply don't look worth taking at any point.

 

Ranged

With the scale kept the same you can see how much less a captain's shooting adds compared to utilising all those attacks. That said, on a model costing a fair few points to begin with, and having multiple wounds, you probably want to make sure the shooting is adding something worthwhile too.

 

In 8th is the Captain has a master-crafted boltgun by default. That's not a bad option against T3 due to the strength, or T4 with multiple wounds due to the 2D, but it's only going to tickle the big targets. The big thing for me here is that you can look at the pistols, but the Captain has the option to swap that boltgun for a combi-weapon, and that opens up a bit more damage potential.

 

The two highest damage options are the Overcharged Combi-Plasma and Melta, being fairly similar at the top end. The Captain might have inbuilt 1 rerolls but do you really want to risk a model costing over 100pts to overcharging plasma? I figure the Melta is the much safer option, and as the Combi-Melta is actually 1 point less than our Inferno Pistol why bother with the pistol? Yes, you get to fire it in a long combat, but that means failing to kill something in both your own charge turn and the enemy's turn.

 

Builds

Here's what I'm thinking...

Anti-Horde: I don't think I'd focus a Captain on this, but if you really wanted to I'd probably go with a pair of Lightning Claws. Assuming horde targets tie you up into the opponent's turn you'll still get the benefit of that extra attack.

 

Anti-MEQ: Thunder Hammer plus Combi-Plasma. Even without overcharging, the rapid fire plasma will be efficient against MEQ. You could take a Fist or Relic Blade instead of the Hammer but given what the Hammer adds elsewhere I'd still take that!

 

Anti-Monster/Vehicle: Thunder Hammer plus Combi-Melta. Highest damage from your melee weapon, plus decent damage (with decent range) from the combi. If you think you'll be tied up in combat through to your own turn the pistol variant is an option but to me the Combi looks great.

 

Power Armour and Terminator Armour don't seem to make much difference here, given both have access to the same weapons highlighted above, except the obvious of being able to give a Jump Pack to the power armour version. You could drop the ranged weapon for a Storm Shield on the Terminator, but is it worth losing the combi now when you'd have the 4++ built in already?

 

Anyhow, what does everyone think about the new Captain options?

Edited September 1, 2020 by Jolemai
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[Thoridon]

For comparison, here's Dante:

 

http://i.imgur.com/eKIsR2B.jpg

 

Given how strong that wound reroll is against characters I think I'll use Dante to hunt down characters and a TH Captain to go for big, tough non-characters.

 

I could actually see myself using a couple of Captains with different builds, but I'll have to look a bit more at the efficiency with other units mixed in.

[Blindhamster]

worth pointing out that swords are always cooler than hammers. So thats a reason for the relic blade :D

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Don't you dare stop making these very informative charts and threads unless YOU want too.

Excellent data and analysis! I have been finding them very very useful myself =)

 

On Captains, I like them. I agree with your analsis for loadout as presented. Thanks again!!

 

Remember we have other characters that also provide that hit re-roll buff to certain units too tho folks. So don't quickly perhaps over focus on just that vanilla marine captain, although he is good.

 

An Ultramarine Capt caused me numerous headaches last eve with buffing and making a nusance of himself in combat until My Librarian got over there and burnt his helmet from the inside out with smite. Command point Re-rolls can be soooo awesome... Hell 8th is awesome!!