Post-release roundtable: what worked? what didnt

[Brother Hellion]

I'm the only one using the hellfrost cannon haha on Bjorn, but it's worked pretty darn well.  Being -4 with d6 and a mortal wound possible, I've killed a lot of characters, and shot down flyers with him.  Honestly though, I've done it since the second hand Bjorn I bought and rescued from a kid is plastic glued with the hellfrost on there.  and it felt fluffy.  Ass cannon sounds good, Las sounds meh

 

Update: So yeah I've used Bjorn last Saturday with the helfrost option and frankly I was impressed by what he did. My opponent played Ground hive tyrant with four bone swords, Zoninthrope, Bio-vore, three hive guard with long range rifles, Genestealer patriarch with three 15 man squads of Genestealers. And a Forge world lord of war module that I've never seen before. 

 

The game was Relic and I was a little worried if my force could handle the new nids. I brought Bjorn, Wolf lord with frost axe, Rune priest on bike, TWC with storm shields, 3x GH combi plasma squads riding in Ass cannon Razorbacks, one pimped out stormwolf and the best part wulfen squad with 3x th/ss and gfaxe. 

 

The result: Between Bjorn and the wulfen those genestealers held no chance. My razor backs soften them up and frankly those storm shelids made their attacks almost worthless. The stormwolf meanwhile cleaned up his backfield except for the biovore that got him with max hits.  In CC, Bjorn's trueclaw just ripped apart the hive tyrant in one turn then nearly finished a squad of genestealers. 

 

In fact it was really close game. I lost cause of that lord of war he was using with 2d6 flame attacks and giant claws. 

 

I did another game with bjorn soon after against blue book marines under 1k points and he just blew away units with that heavy flamer and helfrost cannon without needing to go into assault except for the last round where he just killed a sm captain in a go. Man he is brutal now.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

I'm the only one using the hellfrost cannon haha on Bjorn, but it's worked pretty darn well.  Being -4 with d6 and a mortal wound possible, I've killed a lot of characters, and shot down flyers with him.  Honestly though, I've done it since the second hand Bjorn I bought and rescued from a kid is plastic glued with the hellfrost on there.  and it felt fluffy.  Ass cannon sounds good, Las sounds meh

 

Update: So yeah I've used Bjorn last Saturday with the helfrost option and frankly I was impressed by what he did. My opponent played Ground hive tyrant with four bone swords, Zoninthrope, Bio-vore, three hive guard with long range rifles, Genestealer patriarch with three 15 man squads of Genestealers. And a Forge world lord of war module that I've never seen before. 

 

The game was Relic and I was a little worried if my force could handle the new nids. I brought Bjorn, Wolf lord with frost axe, Rune priest on bike, TWC with storm shields, 3x GH combi plasma squads riding in Ass cannon Razorbacks, one pimped out stormwolf and the best part wulfen squad with 3x th/ss and gfaxe. 

 

The result: Between Bjorn and the wulfen those genestealers held no chance. My razor backs soften them up and frankly those storm shelids made their attacks almost worthless. The stormwolf meanwhile cleaned up his backfield except for the biovore that got him with max hits.  In CC, Bjorn's trueclaw just ripped apart the hive tyrant in one turn then nearly finished a squad of genestealers. 

 

In fact it was really close game. I lost cause of that lord of war he was using with 2d6 flame attacks and giant claws. 

 

I did another game with bjorn soon after against blue book marines under 1k points and he just blew away units with that heavy flamer and helfrost cannon without needing to go into assault except for the last round where he just killed a sm captain in a go. Man he is brutal now.

 

 

Glad you managed a win. I faced a similar list, Relic as well with Swarm Lord, Trygon and two huge blobs of genestealers. I didn't have enough firepower to whittle him down and stupidly deployed close enough for the first batch of 20 genestealers to get a charge on Bjorn. Thankfully Bjorns T8 managed to save him from dying completely, but he still had to face the Trygon and its genestealer sneaking out of the hole blob again in second turn. 

 

Stormwolf/fang maybe expensive but I think a better alternative to Long Fangs, tougher and more mobile.

[Brother Hellion]

 

 

I'm the only one using the hellfrost cannon haha on Bjorn, but it's worked pretty darn well.  Being -4 with d6 and a mortal wound possible, I've killed a lot of characters, and shot down flyers with him.  Honestly though, I've done it since the second hand Bjorn I bought and rescued from a kid is plastic glued with the hellfrost on there.  and it felt fluffy.  Ass cannon sounds good, Las sounds meh

 

Update: So yeah I've used Bjorn last Saturday with the helfrost option and frankly I was impressed by what he did. My opponent played Ground hive tyrant with four bone swords, Zoninthrope, Bio-vore, three hive guard with long range rifles, Genestealer patriarch with three 15 man squads of Genestealers. And a Forge world lord of war module that I've never seen before. 

 

The game was Relic and I was a little worried if my force could handle the new nids. I brought Bjorn, Wolf lord with frost axe, Rune priest on bike, TWC with storm shields, 3x GH combi plasma squads riding in Ass cannon Razorbacks, one pimped out stormwolf and the best part wulfen squad with 3x th/ss and gfaxe. 

 

The result: Between Bjorn and the wulfen those genestealers held no chance. My razor backs soften them up and frankly those storm shelids made their attacks almost worthless. The stormwolf meanwhile cleaned up his backfield except for the biovore that got him with max hits.  In CC, Bjorn's trueclaw just ripped apart the hive tyrant in one turn then nearly finished a squad of genestealers. 

 

In fact it was really close game. I lost cause of that lord of war he was using with 2d6 flame attacks and giant claws. 

 

I did another game with bjorn soon after against blue book marines under 1k points and he just blew away units with that heavy flamer and helfrost cannon without needing to go into assault except for the last round where he just killed a sm captain in a go. Man he is brutal now.

 

 

Glad you managed a win. I faced a similar list, Relic as well with Swarm Lord, Trygon and two huge blobs of genestealers. I didn't have enough firepower to whittle him down and stupidly deployed close enough for the first batch of 20 genestealers to get a charge on Bjorn. Thankfully Bjorns T8 managed to save him from dying completely, but he still had to face the Trygon and its genestealer sneaking out of the hole blob again in second turn. 

 

Stormwolf/fang maybe expensive but I think a better alternative to Long Fangs, tougher and more mobile.

 

 

Yeah, I'm starting to re think how I play my wolves from general spread jack of all trades to more high mobility, loads of fire power with elite shock units to hold key positions. I played like that in 7th but when Curse came out I stuck to playing more like the formations they provided with some tweeks from my idea noggin.  So far, Bjorn/TWC/Wulfen are a good combo with Rune priest on bike for psych support. Get that Tempest keep power so you can at least make your assault guys over watch proof. 

 

What I need to adjust is wither I should keep using Wolf lords or switch to wolf priests for more buffs. I have yet to try my wolf lord on TW cause I well I used him like 90% last edition and frankly afraid he might do as well this one.  Another fact is if I should add a Venerable dred for that vanguard command point bonus.

[Kasper_Hawser]

One thing painful for me to admit is that Grey Hunters and Blood Claws may not be the best choice against most "elite" lists unless they camp out in Razorbacks, only coming out when the enemy is sufficiently whittled down rather than being the anchor of my army, sadly being reduced to a "tax" to get the Battalion 3 CPs. So far, my wins are when I pull back on the Troops and focus on the Elites and Heavy Support.

 

I hope I'll be able to find a way to properly use my Grey Hunters and Blood Claws as the mainstay of my lists, rather than constantly sacrificing them for Terminators, Wulfen or god forbid, TWC which I detest out of principle.

[Blackwinter]

hi brothers,

 

My last game was a real victory for The Rout against Chaos Marines. We played a 2000  pts game and he had 6 command points and i had 5. In the 3rd turn opponent understood that he lost the game. But for practice we continued.

 

 

The Good

 

Bjorn with plasma cannon he killed a some bikers and and a helldrake with ease. Don't need tell you the buffs :)

 

Dreadnaugt with axe and shield: It was tanking shooting in front of Bjorn and Muderfang. Under S5 and S7 heavy shooting he was so comfortable. He tanked may "trio - dreads" across the board.  And when he comes to CC he one shotted Khârn.Altough Khârn has charged him :)

 

Land Raider Crusader: It kills infantry very badly and T8 and 2+ arnor is so good. I was so impressed. l killed a squad of bikers and a Chaos Lord on bike with its shooting. Those rapid fire 6 hurricane bolters are so good. 

 

Average:

 

Murderfang: Against high rending weapons he dies so easily. Needs to pickup combats carefully.  

 

Long Fangs: They were ML loaded.  Tearing apart everyting easliy with rerolling 1's. But having the problems of being infantry. In ruins with 2+ save they died under shooting.  In the first 2 turns of game we need to get as much as we can from them.  

 

Stormwolf with melta sponsons: I used it as heavy weapons platform. In the first turn he killed the first Helldrake. İt shoots really good weapons but dies so easliy. 

 

 

For 8th edition, as i get to used to it i realised that getting the first turn and making the assault is key factors(it is much more important then the 7th edition) Because everything hits like a truck and anything can be killed so fast.(except the axe &shield dread :) ) 

 

 

In overall im very happy with our amy and the new way of 40K

 

 

 

 

[Brother Hellion]

Got another dread box and might start making a new one to support Bjorn during missions.

[Bulwyf]

Bjorn has become my favorite HQ of any army I play and it isn't even close. He is unreal. It feels so fluffy to have him blowing things to Hel and back with his assault cannon or helfrost and then to just flat out murder things in CC.

[Kasper_Hawser]

time to try do a March of the Ancients using Vanguard Detachment.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Sadly they can't resurrect units.

 

One thing I envy other chapters is their access to the banner bearers, which can have a dead character shoot/fight one last time before dying. This can result in you killing a plasma gunner, only for him to 50/50 chance shoot you in the face before succumbing to his wounds.

[Garreck]

Finally got a couple of games in against some quality opponents. I think what struck me (and those whose observed) was how well my list performed while excluding thunderwolves and wulfen. My "sense" this edition has been that, within reason, there are no must-takes to be competitive. Yesterday I was able to prove it.

 

On advice and feedback observed here I ran bjorn as my warlord. Won't bore you with basically the same tale of murderousness that's been reported. He's ultra tough and killy.

 

I had 5 combi-plas/ss wolf guard on bikes...my first opponent prioritized those early so they didn't get to show much but were resilient enough to eat the better part of a 1500 pt army shooting at them which meant the rest of my army was mostly unmolested for a turn. Second game they zipped around shooting targets of opportunity. Theyre quite effective against infantry of pretty much any type.

 

Grey hunters in twin AC razorbacks are flexible and effective. This is a combination that has enough firepower to make your opponent regret ignoring them but vehicles require focused attention to address, taking heat off other elements.

 

I liked the stormfang gunship. Great firepower. The relatively increased vulnerability of fliers can be mitigated with positioning and a broad threat spectrum (give the enemy other things they can't ignore.) Don't hit the middle of the enemy line; approach from a flank and use the first turn to shoot the biggest threat to your flier.

 

My dice badly underperformed in my first game so it was tough to evaluate axe and shield dreads. Second game I got bogged down with some wyches that refused to fail invuln saves. I'll continue running at least one because their resiliency is good if you can roll some 3s.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Garreck

[hammer grimblood]

Just had a game against Mechanicus. 50 pl of Mechanicus vs 25 Space Wolves and 25 Smurfs. Managed a win barely but I find it's really hard at this low points level. Some thoughts though. Long Fangs are definitely better than Devastators as my partner's Captain was forced to babysit the Devs. Sniper Scouts are ok, just deadly enough to warrant some attention. I ran a Dread with asscan, 5 Wulfen with hammers and a Wolf Priest. The Priest added some nice bonuses and, while I didn't get to rip apart Onagers with my Dread like I envisioned, my dread did hold the objective for 5 turns and manage to kill a few guys. The Wulfen are powerhouses and will shine when supported. I charged them at 2 Onagers and managed to tie them up the whole game while still killing his datasmith and dominus. Electro priests need to die asap though as their mortal wounds instantly killed my Wolf Priest on the charge. All in all the Wulfen carried the day and prevented my opponent from advancing on the objectives which was the point.

[Brother Hellion]

Played a couple of more games this past weekend. Lost one to Ynearri bike eldar but won against salamanders doing castle defense.

 

The good: Wulfen can hold their own even against Wraithknights but a little support from a RH doesn't hurt. Stormwolf still one of my best units even when it blows, cause it took out half the enemy army in the process.  Extra command point from Bjorn seems crucial when facing off against another battalion army.

 

The bad: TWC have been performing less then stellar lately. They failed to charge in both games and even with wulfen next to them. Only saving graces I've seen is their ability to tank via SS saves, natural T5 and three wounds a module. Even my MVP wolf lord on tw failed to impress as he was killed in overwatch by biker fire. Last edition he was able to kill Imperial knights and now this.

 

Overall I had a better time in the second game versing vulkan and his multa melta devastor squads then against Ynearri and the soulburst mechanic.  

[Kasper_Hawser]

Played a couple of more games this past weekend. Lost one to Ynearri bike eldar but won against salamanders doing castle defense.

 

The good: Wulfen can hold their own even against Wraithknights but a little support from a RH doesn't hurt. Stormwolf still one of my best units even when it blows, cause it took out half the enemy army in the process.  Extra command point from Bjorn seems crucial when facing off against another battalion army.

 

The bad: TWC have been performing less then stellar lately. They failed to charge in both games and even with wulfen next to them. Only saving graces I've seen is their ability to tank via SS saves, natural T5 and three wounds a module. Even my MVP wolf lord on tw failed to impress as he was killed in overwatch by biker fire. Last edition he was able to kill Imperial knights and now this.

 

Overall I had a better time in the second game versing vulkan and his multa melta devastor squads then against Ynearri and the soulburst mechanic.  

 

It's so strange. The new Twin rules which effectively doubles the shots of most weaponry makes them more devastating than the old Twin Link rules more accurate shots ever did. Combined with the new wounding mechanics, my Stormwolf managed to kill more units and vehicles in a single game of 8th edition than it ever did in an entire YEAR of 7th ed. It was so depressing when I use a fully loaded Stormwolf yet fail to kill even a damn Rhino with all its Lascannon and Multimelta.

 

what I'm trying to say is: FLYING WOLF BRICKS NOW LITERALLY SHOOT BIG FREAKING BRICKS AND KILLS STUFF NOW!

 

Ahem, tldr flyer rocks now. They cost a lot but in my opinion, worth every cent, especially since they can hover.

[Brother Hellion]

Both flyer versions have improved since last edition even if you take the minimal points. 

 

Terminators I've only tried once but they seem like a hearty stock to soak enemy fire.  and Th's can bring down large things quick.

 

Wulven are rockstars this edition. I think my wulfen pack leader is like the micheal jorden of melee this edition.

 

Ghs still my go to as a six man team. Their razor backs support giving them ability to hold the line.

 

The only unit I have a real problem with is my TWC. I'm thinking a good replacement might be five man wg with jump packs/th/ss with pack leader taking wolf claws. It will cost a little more the TWC is but it won't cost me two units to field instead of one like other alternatives.

 

Or I may keep then and use them for bullet shields. seems to keep most firepower away from my other units.

[Kasper_Hawser]

The twin multi meltas maybe as expensive as hell but i think they're worth their points if they wreck a Rhino or Tank at every turn. They can also turn multi wound characters into slag.

 

Terminators I'm still not quite convinced. Better against small arms fire but still vulnerable to not just anti-tank multi wound weapons, but also to psychic Smite which some armies like Grey Knights, Daemons and even Tyranids can spam like no tomorrow.

 

The new Death Guard are also absolutely brutal with their aura of potential mortal wounds. I'm learning to hide in my transports until all their HQs are dealt with to minimise exposure to their nasty plague aura. Not to mention the free one they get when they successfully cast a spell.

[Guest]

I played a game as DG, and yes they are slow and sluggish but they are resilient as hell and those poxwalkers as weak as they seem, are terrors. DG psykers will simply cast their spell for -1 to hit, noxious blightbringer will ensure their advances are quick, then their lord of contagion causes mortal wounds.

 

My suggestion. Snipers... I know it sounds stupid but kill their Pskyer ASAP, followed by that Lord of Contagion. Without those 2 the poxwalkers are weak and much more vulnerable. Once the poxwalkers are gone it opens up the Plague marines to be attacked without fear of those mortal wounds from the lord. Toughness 5 is going to be hell to deal with so make sure to bring +Strength weapons. Don't waste points on Thunderhammer as it will only be S8 vs T5 so your hitting on 3+ which is the same as a +2S weapon.

 

The Foetid Flyer is also a star as a flyer it simply uses it flamethrower thing, then charges in if it wants to get some more hits in and tie up a unit and prevents heavy support from shooting at it. Then next turn will fly away again, use its flamethrower, then charges in if blah blah blah it repeats. Shoot it with your Heavy Support as soon as possible but once it gets in on its pattern point your heavies somewhere else until it slips up. Point Plasma Pistols at it and blast it during the shooting phase and it is in melee.

[Guest Triszin]

is there anypoint to take a powerfist in a greyhunter squad over a thunder hammer?

[NightHowler]

The only reason I can think of is having models with powerfists but not having models with thunderhammers (and playing an opponent who is not ok with "counts as").

[Valerian]

is there anypoint to take a powerfist in a greyhunter squad over a thunder hammer?

Only the WGPL can take the Hammer, the GHPL can only take the Fist.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Not much reason to take powerfists apart from the GH squads not able to use Thunderhammers unless it has a Wolf Guard in it. Not to mention power armour size Thunderhammers are quite uncommon except for Vanguard Box, Grey Hunter box, and Crusade Mk 3 power armour box. (looks really tiny compared to the big and elaborate head in the GH box though)

 

Plus there's something cool and sexy about using an oversized fist to smash someone as opposed to an oversized hammer.

[Karhedron]

Just played my first game with my SWs against Tau yesterday. It was 50 power and I ran the following list:

Rune Priest in Runic TDA

5 Grey Hunters with melta, PL and WGPL
Razorback with Twin assault cannons
5 Grey Hunters with plasma, PL and WGPL
Razorback with Twin assault cannons

5 Skyclaws with SL and WGPL

6 Long Fangs with 2 x ML, 2 x PC and 1 x LC

My opponent ran:

Shadowsun
Ethereal

3 Stealth suits with Burst Cannons
3 Crisis suits with triple missile pods

10 Fire Warriors
10 Fire Warriors
10 Pathfinders
10 Breachers
A selection of Drones

The mission was the Scouring with Front line assault deployment (diagonal table quarters). I lost the game 7:8 but that was only because the Superior objective turned out to be near the Tau deployment zone while my Long Fangs turned out to be holding the Inferior objective. The game ended with both of us having 3 objectives while I also got Slay the Warlord and First Blood. I also had a lot more left on the table with my Grey Hunters and Long Fangs mostly intact and my Rune Priest alive and well. My opponent was down to an Ethereal cowering behind a remote objective and a handful of Fire Warriors and Breachers holding the other 2. Given another turn I could have hosed at least 1 objective clear and claimed victory. It was a fun game and my army performed well so I do not feel hard-done by.

 

The Long Fangs were the stars of the show as they killed both units of suits as well as miscellaneous drones and infantry. Their ability to reroll 1s prevented the plasma cannons from overheating and sticking mainly to cover provided them with good protection. However their main protection was their relatively long range combined with the attention that the Razorbacks attracted. Once the Tau player saw what those assault cannons could do to his infantry, he made shutting them down a priority with the Crisis suits whittling one down while Shadowsun hunted the other (dual fusion blasters Hurt!).

 

The Grey Hunters performed respectably but one pack repeatedly failed to kill Shadowsun in close combat mainly due to the WGPL's total inability to hit with his power fist or combi-melta. I never managed to roll higher than a 2 for his shooting or a 3 for his power fist all game. In the end, the Rune Priest had to Smite her a couple of times to end her hi-jinks (after passing an invulnerable save for his Runic TDA that would have vaporised him otherwise). I am wondering if Power Fists are a good idea on Pack Leaders due to the -1 to Hit and low number of attacks. Unless you have a source of reerolls, I am thinking that a Frost Sword would likely be cheaper and more effective.

 

The Razorbacks did good work. Although they both died, they lived long enough, killed enough and absorbed enough firepower to allow the rest of my army to get on with the job. I did spend a CP on 1 Razorback to reroll its save for it final wound. This meant it survived another turn to fire again and my opponent had to dedicate another squad's shooting to finishing it off in his next turn. In a smallish game like this, keeping a unit alive 1 turn longer can make a big difference.

 

The Skyclaws were a disappointment but this was partly due to poor saves and partly due to me wanting to assault with them. Although I dropped them into cover, the 2 units that had LOS to them had enough firepower to put down a small 6-man squad. I should have gone for one of the more distant objectives. Although it would have given them little opportunity to assault, it would probably have won me the game on VPs.

 

My take away from this is that most of our infantry is solid. Razorbacks make great, cheap mini-tanks. Claws need to be fielded in decent numbers to be effective. Power fists need volume of attacks or a source of rerolls to be effective. MEQs in cover are hard to shift.

 

The Tempestus discipline is very good and Smite is always useful. I think in future games I will take Njal if possible as only getting access to one Tempestus power is very limiting. If you are unsure what power to take, "Storm Caller" is probably the best as the ability for all units within 6" of the RP to count as being in cover really makes the army a lot harder to shift.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Karhedronuk

[Lord Ragnarok]

Bjorn has become my favorite HQ of any army I play and it isn't even close. He is unreal. It feels so fluffy to have him blowing things to Hel and back with his assault cannon or helfrost and then to just flat out murder things in CC.

Don't say that! I am trying to consolidate my list. 

 

Kidding aside can you provide anymore details on how he is performing and how you are using him?

[Bulwyf]

I have played several games against SM, IG and Necrons. Bjorn is a flat out murder machine. He has FNP, doesn't risk blowing up if he is destroyed, has amazing CC ability with Trueclaw and his ranged options are potent. He gives you +1 CP if you take him in any list and he lets you reroll to hit for all your guys within 6 inches. I like moving him up with Wulfen/Blood Claws so that he's there to help them reroll.

 

There's no list I can think of that Bjorn doesn't fit in. He is honestly the only HQ that should be mandatory to take because he is that potent.

 

Edit: I think the real  question is can anyone think of a reason not to take Bjorn on any list? He's truly that good.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Bulwyf

[Valerian]

And he's a Character that cannot even be targeted, unless he's the closest model.

[Deadnaughty]

@Karhedronuk

 

I would only take -1 to hit weapons on people that already hit on 2+ if I can help it (so guys like wolf lords). The -1 to hit just costs you to much attacks to really be effective. esp if you only have 2 to begin with. If your worried about high toughness things I would rather take a Wolf Claw for +1 str and re-rolls to wound for half the price.