Post-release roundtable: what worked? what didnt

[Hellrender]

if you place the wulfen to the left, and the terminators to the right, so that there is a 6'' gap between the two, the terminators are out of range for Hunt. Then charge the terminators first, and when the wulfen succesfully charge, you get Kill.

 

Or, if that is not possible, you can try and charge the wulfen first, and hope that after their charge they are more than 6'' away from Hunt. Then the terminators gets Kill. 

 

In either case, got to play with the positioning. But i think that if you deep strike the terminators, Hunt is quite a nice buff to have.

[Kasper_Hawser]

if you place the wulfen to the left, and the terminators to the right, so that there is a 6'' gap between the two, the terminators are out of range for Hunt. Then charge the terminators first, and when the wulfen succesfully charge, you get Kill.

 

Or, if that is not possible, you can try and charge the wulfen first, and hope that after their charge they are more than 6'' away from Hunt. Then the terminators gets Kill. 

 

In either case, got to play with the positioning. But i think that if you deep strike the terminators, Hunt is quite a nice buff to have.

 

Another alternative to get charge rerolls is Ragnar himself, whom became quite cheap. It'l require a drop pod and some bodyguards tax though.

[Nrthstar]

 

if you place the wulfen to the left, and the terminators to the right, so that there is a 6'' gap between the two, the terminators are out of range for Hunt. Then charge the terminators first, and when the wulfen succesfully charge, you get Kill.

 

Or, if that is not possible, you can try and charge the wulfen first, and hope that after their charge they are more than 6'' away from Hunt. Then the terminators gets Kill. 

 

In either case, got to play with the positioning. But i think that if you deep strike the terminators, Hunt is quite a nice buff to have.

 

 

Another alternative to get charge rerolls is Ragnar himself, whom became quite cheap. It'l require a drop pod and some bodyguards tax though.

If you're running Ragnar, it's more effective to advance him up in a rhino. I've done it, although that game I didn't get first turn, and my opponent had two imp knights and Magnus, so it turned out I didn't get to go forward at all. He is nice now though with his double buffs and 6" heroic intervention.

[Kasper_Hawser]

My problem with Ragnar is that I don't have a decent model of him. :( sob. And I really hate proxying.

 

Recently I bought Krom Dragongaze, planning to use a Frost Sword and Ragnar head. Missing his iconic wolf pelt, but I really don't like the latest but old Ragnar model which looks like a cartoon poser.

[Karhedron]

My problem with Ragnar is that I don't have a decent model of him. sob. And I really hate proxying.

You could probably make a decent Ragnar out of the Space Wold accessory sprue. It has an extra large and ornate frost blade, a pelted torso and a bare head. Add the rest of the parts form the normal SW infantry sprue and voila! A proper Ragnar with no proxying.

[PeteySödes]

This probably isn't news, but Runepriests are actually really, really effective in combat. I had mostly been hiding mine so far in 8th providing smites and tempests wrath(s) keeping him safe. I played a game though Tuesday against a really competitive Tyranid list, playing the good elite general I stuck to playing the objectives (big guns never tire) but got whittled down to nothing by the late game.

 

2 models left on the board for me, my WP (warlord) holding my objective and the RP who was right up in their line. Im basically playing for the tie in my mind. Decide to go for the warlord hail mary and get both powers off on his Tervigon for 3 mortal wounds, overcharge the plasma pistol for 2, and then charge him (getting the rolls i missed all game) for 9 flippin' wounds. One shot (kinda) the Tervigon for the points that win it... 

 

I realize this is 100% anecdotal since the dice worked out but the runic axe on this guy along with -1 to hit from tempestas is pretty great. I'll definitely be playing him more aggressive going forward though.

[Karhedron]

Runic Armour helps compared to regular librarians.

 

But of course as your example shows, there really is no substitute for hot dice!

[PeteySödes]

Runic Armour helps compared to regular librarians.

 

But of course as your example shows, there really is no substitute for hot dice!

 

Yea for 7 points?? Done, every time.

[Hellrender]

 

 

if you place the wulfen to the left, and the terminators to the right, so that there is a 6'' gap between the two, the terminators are out of range for Hunt. Then charge the terminators first, and when the wulfen succesfully charge, you get Kill.

 

Or, if that is not possible, you can try and charge the wulfen first, and hope that after their charge they are more than 6'' away from Hunt. Then the terminators gets Kill.

 

In either case, got to play with the positioning. But i think that if you deep strike the terminators, Hunt is quite a nice buff to have.

Another alternative to get charge rerolls is Ragnar himself, whom became quite cheap. It'l require a drop pod and some bodyguards tax though.

Yes.. But. If you are in the 6" range of the wulfen whennyou charge, Hunt is always triggered. Doesnt matter if you have a reroll elsewhere.

 

 

 

And on characters in transports: once in a transport, the aura stops worling as the character counts as being off the table, unless otherwise stated.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Hellrender

[MeatGrinder]

This probably isn't news, but Runepriests are actually really, really effective in combat. I had mostly been hiding mine so far in 8th providing smites and tempests wrath(s) keeping him safe. I played a game though Tuesday against a really competitive Tyranid list, playing the good elite general I stuck to playing the objectives (big guns never tire) but got whittled down to nothing by the late game.

 

2 models left on the board for me, my WP (warlord) holding my objective and the RP who was right up in their line. Im basically playing for the tie in my mind. Decide to go for the warlord hail mary and get both powers off on his Tervigon for 3 mortal wounds, overcharge the plasma pistol for 2, and then charge him (getting the rolls i missed all game) for 9 flippin' wounds. One shot (kinda) the Tervigon for the points that win it... 

 

I realize this is 100% anecdotal since the dice worked out but the runic axe on this guy along with -1 to hit from tempestas is pretty great. I'll definitely be playing him more aggressive going forward though.

 

This is something I copped when i read the book first, theyre significantly better in combat than most of the equivalent psykers.

[Jarl Caldersson]

So how are people running our WG now that they can only take 2 weapons. I am trying to justify their cost with Jump packs since they cost more than the Veteran Vanguard w/ Jump Packs but have no Special Rule and 1 less leadership. Not sure what GW is thinking...

Edited July 28, 2017 by Caldersson

[Karhedron]

So how are people running our WG now that they can only take 2 weapons. I am trying to justify their cost with Jump packs since they cost more than the Veteran Vanguard w/ Jump Packs but have no Special Rule and 1 less leadership. Not sure what GW is thinking...

Probably with magnets. The FAQ has changed this once already and there is a chance it may change again in the final codex. Even if the options remain the same, points costs may change or a new trend may sweep the meta. If mechanized armies became a big thing (hypothetically) then combi-meltas and thunderhammers might become all the rage.

 

Personally I am not hugely taken with PAWG as CC troops. It is possible to spend a lot of points on something that is still 1 T4 wound with a 3+ save. My experience with basic jump pack units in this edition is that they are quite fragile. I prefer to run cheap Skyclaws and use them to snatch objectives rather than front line assault troops.

 

If I want a hammer to hit the enemy that I prefer Terminators or bikers. Both get 2 wounds. Terminators get Teleport attack and 2+/5++ save while bikers get T5 and faster movement. Points spent on upgrading these units will generally live longer IMHO.

 

PAWG are probably best fielded as special/combi weapon caddies.

[Deadnaughty]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Jumppack Wolfguard either. If I want deepstriking plasma/melta I would rather take Skyclaws or Scions, both are much cheaper.

 

For combat i'd rather have bikers, much more survivable and yes you won't get a t1 charge but I don't like to bank on that anyway.

[Gherrick]

I like my PAWG jump pack CS/SB unit, although it was better when I could also use two chainswords to make their attacks the same for shooting and melee. 40 S4 shots is still a lot of dakka, and the overall unit cost is pretty reasonable IMO.

[PeteySödes]

I like my PAWG jump pack CS/SB unit, although it was better when I could also use two chainswords to make their attacks the same for shooting and melee. 40 S4 shots is still a lot of dakka, and the overall unit cost is pretty reasonable IMO.

 

I use the same build in a TLAC razorback rather than jump, but its pretty great. My only beef is thats its basically unusable if people insist on using power levels.

[Gherrick]

I could see using pawg bikers with SBs. That's 8 shots per model within 12", and a 14" move to make sure you get there.

[Hellrender]

I have been thinking today about how to make a shooty wolf list with enough counter melee punch (and speed) to engage a shooty army in close combat. Sort of the ideal i guess :P

 

However, i struggle with a few things. The idea is to tick of a few boxes: i want a solid anvil. For me this will include a Bjorn and a leviathan dreadnought, possibly even a Ven. Dread aswell. (i love dreads). This will form the anvil. However, they lack in bodies, so i need that.

 

For bodies we have a few options: Wolf Guard (see below for Bjorn synergy), Grey Hunters or Intercessors. I do not rank Blood Claws for this job. These guys focus on objective holding. So need to be fast and flexible. Blood claws aren't really into that. Intercessors with their new stalker boltguns look very interesting, but i have no idea what they cost, and defintly do not fill into the flexible mid field objective takers. For backfield objective holding, maybe. But if they cost more than 130-150 points, we have other options with long fangs and heavy bolters in razorback for example, which are faster, and have a ton more firepower. Grey Hunters are very flexible, especially as MSU. so i was thinking two 6 man grey hunter squads with as much plasma as i can, in a razorback. I also wanted a 10 man squad in drop pod, land raider or rhino. But the pod is expensive and doesn't do much else, the Land raider is expensive, but does provide a lot of firepower, and the rhino is just a nice transport, but then i wonder why not just the 2 msu units in razorback?

 

The 3rd element is counter assault. For me this is my Arjac with Terminators. They drop exactly where i need them, and just start disrupting whatever they are near. Arjac can hunt for troublesome characters, while the terminators go for something juicy. With 3 storm shields and 1 assault cannon, aswell as a thunder hammer and a chainfist or 2. The question is, is this enough. Both Inceptors and Grey Hunters in a drop pod can provide a similar role, but in a more shooty capacity.

 

The last and 4th element that i want is a small homebase. Since the anvil will advance, and the counter strike element will be upfield most of the time, i need something to hold potential home objectives. 3 units speak to me: Hellblasters with Heavy plasma cannons, Long Fangs and Intercessors. 

 

All that in mind, let's get back to my Anvil. Bjorn forms the heart, together with the leviathan and possibly a ven dread (points permitting, he is an excellent bodyguard for Bjorn, and will help a lot of he reaches melee. However, he doesn't provide any shooting). But i would like a unit nearby Bjorn that provides a few bodies, makes use of his aura, and can keep up with the dread's speed.

 

The first thing that popped to mind, are combi plasma units, Hellblasters with the assault or rapid fire variant of weapons, Inceptors with plasma exterminators, and aggressors with boltstorm gauntlets.

 

Wolf guard with combi plasma is the first option, and altough relatively solid, i'm just not 100% sold on the idea.

 

Hellblasters with the assault variant work nicely i think. They don't move that much slower, and being assault i have some flexibility with advancing while Bjorn can mitigate the overcharge risk. 

 

Inceptors: Okay, i am sorry. I quite like the models. And having faced Tau, these appeal to me due to their mobile firebase. I can have them hang around Bjorn for overcharge goodness, or i can let them roam the battlefield in search of juicy targets. I like this flexibility. But i guess that they will cost more than the bolter variants, thus closer to 300 points. A big investment for 3 models that will form part of my anvil (and thus attract attention).

 

Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets. A unit of 3 will pump out 18 + 3D6 Strenght 4 shots per shooting phase, twice that if they stood still. The real juice though is that they move 5'' + D6 each turn, and still shoot at normal efficiancy. However, it's just Strenght 4 shots. 

 

Last, another dreadnought XD I love dreads, and i can either add a Gatling Redemptor Dread or a Kheres Contemptor Relic dread. The redemptor is cheaper, and looks bad ass, and with 20ish shots, makes well use of Bjorns aura. My anvil will then be 3-4 dreadnoughts and nothing else! Maybe should consider an iron priest at that point. It certainly will look absolutely BAD ASS.

 

So what do you think? This is mainly for 2000 points :) Asking to much with 4 dreadnoughts? Will that leave too few for bodies? 

[PeteySödes]

(*snip)

 

Personally I don't think the lacking bodies is much of a thing here unless you play last man standing type stuff all the time. I've been running so many weird list tests where I'm out numbered at least 10:1 and have found that as long as i play the mission i tend to do well. 

 

I think the key is to do what you're already doing and take units that have a specific purpose. That said, the highest I've played is 1500 so far so its likely a different animal but in my experience it just affords people bigger toys rather than more bodies.

[Karhedron]

I like the way you are thinking but possibly 4 Dreads is too many. 3 should be ample, particularly if you are taking a couple of hunter units in Razorbacks. I feel an Iron Priest might be worthwhile to help patch up the Ancients when they come under fire but points are likely to be a limiting factor here.

 

I am definitely planning on walking some Hellblasters alongside Bjorn myself. As soon as I see more than a couple of units advancing together, I immediately think of a Rune Priest for Storm Caller. Giving multiple units the benefit of being in cover is huge.

 

I am just not sold on Inceptors. Even with the points drop they are 60 points for 2 T5 wounds and a 3+ save. If you have a couple of TLAC Razorbacks, they should meet your need for high ROF weaponry.

 

Aggressors on the other hand could have mileage. Advance them just in front of Bjorn and the Hellblasters to absorb the charge with their flamer overwatch. Bjorn and Hellblaster will make a real mess of tough targets while Aggressors and the Razorbacks will help deal with hordes. Again Aggressors will really benefit from being near the Rune Priest.

 

For backfield units, I have been very impressed with Long Fangs so far. The built-in reroll of 1s when they focus their shooting makes them very effective and with something like a Dreadmob and Hellblasters bearing down on them, the enemy will rarely have much firepower to send on your old guys hiding in cover at the back.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I think more than 3 dreads will put you out on bodies. (Especially as you have roughly 700 to 750 points of dreads spaced already depending on the leviathan load out but Bjorn and ven are already 400 and I don't think you can get a leviathan below 300). So you have about 1200 left for bodies.

 

Troops-

The plasma greyhunters in the razor back look to be my current favorite objective grab/harass unit. They run (with razor back TAC) about 225. If you want to pack a bit more punch, you can go lascannon for a bit more. But 2 of these units seem to be ideal in the couple of games I have run them.

 

Left over points to flesh out the list. If I were building it I would use the points for the cendrwad on Arjac as I think you will get more mileage out of his character hunting than the ven dread which will take some time to reach combat.

[Hellrender]

Thanks for the advice guys. I like the idea of aggressors and hellblasters around Bjorn. A runepriest nearby with the cover power would be nice too! Nice catch that.

 

What is your guys experience in need for command points around 2k points? Granted, we have no real access to unique strategems yet, but do you think 4 is too much or very much needed? The idea now is to aim for a Battalion, with Bjorn that is 4 CP. 

 

Then you have Bjorn and Arjac as the 2 HQ's, 2 MSU grey hunters in razorback, and a 3rd cheapish Troop (intercessors with stalker bolters, or simply MSU grey hunters on foot), as troops. But a Vanguard Detachment is a lot easier to build. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Actually it's 7 CP with batallion and 5 CP with vanguard, as all battleforged armies start with 3.

 

As for the crucialness of it. I forgot them in my first 2 games except at the end, but rerolls are powerful for those inconveniently missed charges. In later games the reroll was goid for charges and keeping Bjorn alive. And the combat one was effective that game as well to keep my TCAV swinging after they got charged by some chaos terminators. All in all they are useful.

[The Wolfguard]

I don't really have much experience but I wanted to try to contribute. I played 1k points against orks, my army was two thunderwolf squads, one with 2 axes, 1 thunder hammer and 3 SS's. The second squad had 2 bolters, leader with hunder hammer and 3 SS's again. Then 5 wulfen with 2 TH/SS and 3 Great Frost Axes. 5 Termies, 2 TH/SS and 3 frost claws. As well as a wolf lord on thunderwolf with frost sword and SS.

 

I was versus orks who used a load of boyz, squad of nobz, squad of shooters, some dakkacopter things a mega armoured warboss and 5 lootas.

 

It was looking pretty rough at the start due to me losing a model and a wound of the expensive thunderwolf squad, only because I forgot toughness 5 and forgot to use the cover bonus though. (oops)

 

Then when we first hit combat I firstly forgot the wulfen +1 attack from great frost axes charge and forgot the wulfen +1 attack on allies. I also forgot the wolf lords rerolls of 1 to hit.. So I got pretty hurt in the first turn or so. By second turn I'd caught up on my rules and my men turned around and creamed the orks. Funnily enough, I thought Wulfen had regular frost axes so I was using their rules for them all game.

 

Either way, the wulfen buff + the wolf lord buff on thunderwolves and each other works like an amazing little pack. Storm shields kept them relatively unharmed and whilst expensive I will keep them on the wolves everytime. Just one 'wound' causing d3/6 wounds and killing a wolf outright is too brutal for me, especially against orks where you really need to be able to take a hit it seems? Either way, my first game of wolves, I highly endorse wulfen, they are so good. With the wolf lord near the termies with wolf claws too that's a lot of rerolls which is really nice for slaying the green tide.. Next game I have to deal with ork fliers and tanks however so not sure how I'll do with them.. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

The flyers will be tricky with that list as you have not way of dealing with them as you have just 2 bolters for weapons with range and no fly units to charge them.

 

Do you get more points for your next game or are you at 1k still

[Deadnaughty]

I like my PAWG jump pack CS/SB unit, although it was better when I could also use two chainswords to make their attacks the same for shooting and melee. 40 S4 shots is still a lot of dakka, and the overall unit cost is pretty reasonable IMO.

5 bikers with SS/SB are cheaper (15 pts) and have T5. 

Unless your really consistently getting the benefit of T1 deepstrikes that you wouldn't have been able to do with Bikers I think the bikes are much better.

 

Edit: Sorry 65 points cheaper even, forgot to count the jumppacks...

Edited July 29, 2017 by Deadnaughty