The "What has 8th invalided" thread

[Xenith]

Ok, so I really hope that this thread is short, but I noticed that my assault sergeants can no longer dual wield pistols. I thought I was getting the hand of the index, but apparently not.

 

This thread is to compile all the stuff we could do in 7th, but cannot do in 8th, so save us model making headaches from the edition hangover.

 

Please present the issues in the form:

 

+What's changed+

+The wording that prevents it (if applicable)+

+Alternative (if any)+

 

I'll Start.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+Change+

Text

+Wording+

Text

+Alternative+

Text

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+Change+

Assault marine sergeants can no longer dual wield pistols, or take combi meltas (bye bye meltacide)

+Wording+

Most sergeants can pick from the sergeant equipment list, but ASM sergeants can swap their pistol for another pistol or melee weapon, and their chainsword for another melee weapon. They cannot swap their chainsword for a second pistol.

+Alternative+

None

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+Change+

Assault marines cannot take melta or plasma guns anymore, 

+Wording+

Normal Codex ASM entry, the BA section has no permissions to allow meltaguns

+Alternative+

Company veterans with special weapons, although these are more expensive, and have different coloured helms.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+Change+

Terminator and Sanguinary guard can no longer include a banner holder

+Wording+

Banner Bearers are now individual units

+Alternative+

Sanguinary guard can be taken at 4 men strong. If you had modelled a terminator standard bearer, you need to add a new terminator to the unit to make them 5 men strong.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+Change+

Death Company thunder hammers now replace both weapons, so no hammer and bolter

+Wording+

Death co entry

+Alternative+

None.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+Change+

Death Company Chaplains no longer exist

+Wording+

Unit entry removed

+Alternative+

Use normal chaplain, Lemartes or Astorath to buff DC. 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+Change+

Standard drop pods can no longer carry dreadnoughts, the pods you left the harnesses from to transport dreads arent too useful now.

+Wording+

drop pod entry

+Alternative+

Use Forge world dread drop pod entry. May be issues with drop pod size.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+Change+

Blood Angels named characters and units: Karlaen, Raphen's Death company, Squad Aphael, Cassor the Damned

+Wording+

Deleted

+Alternative+

Generic unit entries for Termiator captain, Termonator squad, death company, cassor. At least Raphen's loadout isnt so terrible this edtion.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Xenith

[Jolemai]

Meltacide - yes Meltagun RAS are covered above but not it's primary use.

 

Fragioso alpha strikes - namely Dreadnoughts in Pods (so Lucius only now - assuming you can get hold of the model and FW is permitted where you are), but also because of the range of the frag cannon.

 

TLHF & HF Dreadnought alpha strikes - see above.

 

Charging into combat from Deep Strike - namely the SG tactic and TFA tactic from Angel's Blade. Basically arriving 9" away makes this less useful imo.

 

Double thundehammer DC gone?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

No more Bolter + Thunder Hammer DC.

No more Techmarine riding caddy to repair Transport vehicles; must be within an inch and not embarked to repair. Only one repair per tank now.

Rhinos no longer having fire-points so models can no longer fire out of them. Big tactical change for BBQ squads.

 

Death Company Chaplain (for now) Completely removed, will count as codex marine's chaplain.

[Fallenturtle]

I think in order to now take a meltacide unit and dual wield pistols, they have to be Vanguard vets now. it sucks as I'm starting blood angels and loved the idea of just flying around meltaing everything but also wanting to actually fill up my fast slots ( right now that's the only slots in two of my lists I'm not taking anything in.

[Quixus]

Fragioso alpha strikes - namely Dreadnoughts in Pods (so Lucius only now - assuming you can get hold of the model and FW is permitted where you are), but also because of the range of the frag cannon.

 

TLHF & HF Dreadnought alpha strikes - see above.

Only the singular heavy flamer does not work anymore. Fragcannon, TwinHF and meltagun are assault weapons meaning you can advance to be in range (rolling 1+ on a d6 should work most of the time ) and shoot them. While this procedure invalidates charging, we didn't have that previously anyways.

 

@deep striking inferno pistols: this does not work you have to drop 9" away from the target, and you cannot advance and shoot pistols. Inferno Pistols have a range of 6".

[Jolemai]

I was referring to it arriving via Drop Pod but that is an important addition.

 

Another niche tactic is the Rhino bunker (namely with two grav cannon Devastators) but at least this can be replicated elsewhere.

[Xenith]

OP updated, thanks for the input - I'm keeping the mentioned examples purely model related for now - mny rules have changed and listing them all is just typing out the rulebook, but keep saying them, and I'll keep updating OP with the ones that invalidate models you own.

[Jolemai]

Does the lack of rules for Karlaen, Squad Alphaeus, Raphen's DC, and Cassor the Damned count?

[Quixus]

I think so. Karlaen lost counter-attack the DC and dread lost the troops slot. Not sure what Squad Alphaeus lost, but I am pretty sure that they somehow differed from the regular TDA squad.

[Xenith]

I think so. Karlaen lost counter-attack the DC and dread lost the troops slot. Not sure what Squad Alphaeus lost, but I am pretty sure that they somehow differed from the regular TDA squad.

 

Raphen was a character and had an extra attack over a regular DC member, as I recall.

[Arkhanist]

 

Only the singular heavy flamer does not work anymore. Fragcannon, TwinHF and meltagun are assault weapons meaning you can advance to be in range (rolling 1+ on a d6 should work most of the time ) and shoot them. While this procedure invalidates charging, we didn't have that previously anyways.

 

@deep striking inferno pistols: this does not work you have to drop 9" away from the target, and you cannot advance and shoot pistols. Inferno Pistols have a range of 6".

 

 

This doesn't work for any deep strike units, even with assault weapons. Advancing now happens in the movement phase, as an optional D6 extra distance. Deep strike units arrive at the end of the movement phase, and cannot do any further movement that turn - including advances. (sidebar, page 177). 

 

So any weapon with a less than 10" range (you must usually deploy more than 9" away i.e. 9.001") can't alpha strike any more, except for the rare units that can deploy closer.

 

That tactic does work if deployed on foot or from a storm raven of course, particularly with autohit weapons like frag cannon and flamers.

[Quixus]

Woops, you are right. Too bad.

 

Remind me how you you get a flamer on foot close enough to the enemy in turn 1.

 

Speaking of Stormravens, we lost Skies of Blood Fury, which was really nice for dreads with the old Magna Grapple

Edited June 26, 2017 by Quixus