Can someone explain hour factions work for Chaos?

[Custodian Athiair]

My third topic in the space of a few days, I'm really rusty with all things Warhammer apparently. And I haven't actually played CSM before so obviously confused by a lot of things going on.

 

Anyway in my previous threads a lot has been mentioned about "how factions work now" or the ilk. Can someone explain what I can/can't take in a single detachment (Battalion/Spearhead etc) in a Chaos list.

 

For context wanting to start Iron Warriors, wondering how legion rules, mark rules etc. But also there was talk in a threat about somehow making Khorne Bezerkers troops instead of Elites by choosing legion key words right. Additionally can I take (for example) a Spearhead detachment with a Warpsmith as the HQ, but the HS options filled by Renegade Guard gun batteries? Is that legal because of the Chaos key word?

 

 

I don't have my rule book around to check at the minute, and even when I do I get a little confused, so I thought I'd pass it on to you experts who seem to know what they're talking about.

 

Thanks in advance

[Kol Saresk]

Okay, so you have your typical faction keywords for us are Chaos, Daemon, Heretic Astartes, <Legion>, and <Mark of Chaos>.

 

All you have to do, is choose one of those keywords. And then every unit in your army just needs to have that keyword.

 

So if you never plan on using daemons, you could just use Heretic Astartes, and etc.

 

And then you can add more for your detachments, but its not necessary.

 

So, for example, an Iron Warriors army.

 

Let's use Chaos for the army. Lets you take anything.

 

Let's make your first detachment <Legion> keyword Iron Warriors. That means this one detachment, will only be able to take units with the keyword Iron Warriors. Which is pretty much anything in Index Chaos and FW's Chaos book except for characters, daemons, and the four Cult Legion options.

 

Then say, you want another detachment of some Berzerker troops to run into the breach? Well, the only way to take Berzerkers as troops is if you organize around the keyword World Eaters. But this has a restriction; you also have to take the <Mark of Chaos> keyword Khorne wherever it is applicable. So while you get 'Zerkers as troops, in this detachment you will not be able to take any of the other Cult units, or psykers.

 

I'm honestly not sure how the Renegades and Heretics will work because I haven't looked at them, and everyone keeps going on about how they can't mix with CSM because of the astra militarum keyword or some other nonsense.

 

If you have access to their rules and they have the Chaos keyword, you can take them.

 

But homestly, unless you plan on doing something like a modular army, you'll only ever need one detachment.

 

So just use the Chaos keyword and go crazy.

 

Just keep in mind you only have to pick one keyword, and go from there.

[Custodian Athiair]

Okay that has helped immensely. Chaos keyword means it is possible to renegade guard, as the forge world book states replace the word "Imperium" with the word "Chaos".

 

Thank you Kol Seresk!

[Kol Saresk]

Yep. Basically the only thing the BRB demands is that all of the units in your army contain at least one word in common.

[Sception]

You do NOT need to have a second faction in common for your detachments.  All of the units in your entire army that do not have the UNALIGNED keyword (mostly just terrain & fortifications, I think?) must share at least one faction keyword.

 

Additionally, in a battleforged army (ie, an army for matched play, the standard format for tournaments, leagues, and pick up games), each unit must be part of a datachment, and detachments may have additional requirements.

 

Right now, there are only the core rulebook detachments, most of which* require that all units in the detachment be "from the same faction", but nothing prevents a detachment's faction from being the same as your army faction.

 

*apart from the super-heavy auxiliary detachment (which only allows one unit anyway) and the fortification network detachment (which will generally be comprised of UNALIGNED units)

 

 

EXAMPLE:  It is completely legal to select CHAOS as your army faction, select a Supreme Command detachment to be part of the army, and include in that detachment a Malefic Lord (a Renegades & Heretics HQ unit), a Heralds of Nurgle (a Chaos Daemons HQ unit), Typhus (a Death Guard HQ unit), a unit of Chaos Terminators (a Heretic Astartes elite unit), and a Renegade Knight Titan (a Questor Traitoris Lord of War unit).  All of these units share the CHAOS faction keyword, so they are all 'from the same faction', and are thus all legal choices within the same detachment, even if they are each form a different 'sub faction'.

 

In the future there may be new detachments which have more stringent requirements.  Detachments that might require the units in them to be from a particular faction rather than just generally sharing one.  There may also be additional advantages for armies that follow a particular faction keyword.  For instance, extra stratagems to spend command points on.  It's likely when the Death Guard codex comes out, that there will be extra rules cookies for people who run armies that are entirely made up of Death Guard units (note that such armies could still include Nurgle Daemons via the summoning rules, as summoned units aren't part of your initial army selection and thus don't count for detachment requirements or the like).

 

But for now, As long as everything in your army is from some chaos subfaction, they'll all share the CHAOS faction keyword, and your army will be good to go.

[Plaguecaster]

Once codex are churning out for all the factions then there will be more restrictions if you are waning to get the benefits sticking to one faction or sub faction until then you have absolutely nothing stopping you mix and match what ever units you want provided they are chaos apart from certain characters buff which won't affect certain units

[Commissar K.]

It's quite simple but can lead to oddities. As for now though there is only a limitation on <Mark of Chaos> Keyword (which is not the same as the Keywords you might want to change it in) and Keyword <Legion> ONLY has limitations for changing it into Death Guard and Thousand Sons.

It's possible it will change in the future but even more likely is that newer Datasheets will have less <Legion> Keywords and have them filled in allready by another Keyword. Again remember once Keywords change they are not the same. So the narrative approach in this is not there. It helps when you see them like currency or types from Magic the Gathering the card game. 

With this I mean that once you change your dollar to an euro that euro is not a dollar again. Likewise, you pick and choose. From a narrative perspective or matched play perspective and those are most certainly not the same. For example, you cannot change <Legion> for the Chaos Lord on Disc of Tzeentch to Thousand Sons or Death Guard. You can however change it to Black Legion, World Eaters or Skulltakers.

Once codex are churning out for all the factions then there will be more restrictions if you are waning to get the benefits sticking to one faction or sub faction until then you have absolutely nothing stopping you mix and match what ever units you want provided they are chaos apart from certain characters buff which won't affect certain units

Exact, the only thing that is required is that Chaos is amongst the Faction Keywords for now. 

[Commissar K.]

Okay that has helped immensely. Chaos keyword means it is possible to renegade guard, as the forge world book states replace the word "Imperium" with the word "Chaos".

 

Thank you Kol Seresk!

 

For all intends and purposes those are two different datasheets and while they can otherwise be the same keep in mind that we as players cannot change Keywords unless that specific Keyword is on the datasheet (such as <Legion> or <Mark of Chaos>).

 

What I mean by this is that it's never a question of what is replaced with what but what is on the actual datasheet. With this I mean that in all cases just check what is on there and don't try to assume what is or what isn't changed to X or Y. 

 

Cheers,