"New" BA Units - Primaris Captain, Librarian, Reivers

[Panzer]

Well let's just wait for our Codex and hope they decided to do so because we get access to Encarmine weapons on more units where we had Power weapons before. Basically like SW got Frost weapons instead of Power weapons on half of their units. :P

[Arkhanist]

One small improvement is the updated primaris pdf does lower the points of inceptors to 30, same as C:SM, and makes them 3-6. It also says we add all these units to our list in the index, and use the datasheet in the box - which presumably will add the plasma option that the index lacks. So it's an official new unit datasheet and points for BA. We'll also get the new weapon options for hellblasters and intercessors (bar power swords), along with the new primaris stuff, if you're so inclined.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Arkhanist

[caladancid]

Is anyone planning to make significant use of the new Aggressors? I have a couple boxes and trying to decide if I should paint for my Salamanders or BA. 

[TheHarrower]

Is anyone planning to make significant use of the new Aggressors? I have a couple boxes and trying to decide if I should paint for my Salamanders or BA. 

 

I'm considering putting the flamer ones in a Repulsor.

[Charlo]

Maybe we're going to get -1ap on all attacks? :P

[LutherMax]

Maybe we're going to get -1ap on all attacks?

Maybe it does have to do with something like that... I mean, there has to be a reason!

Edited July 30, 2017 by LutherMax

[Blindhamster]

I think it'll just be that the intercessor kit doesn't come with any melee weapons beyond the knife.

 

But the chapter sprue do, blood angels one will just be a chain sword :/

[LutherMax]

I think it'll just be that the intercessor kit doesn't come with any melee weapons beyond the knife.

But the chapter sprue do, blood angels one will just be a chain sword :/

You mean there will be Chapter upgrade sprues like for the normal marine kits? And there'll be a Space Marine one with a power sword, and Blood Angels and Space Wolves ones will have chainswords?

[Karhedron]

One small improvement is the updated primaris pdf does lower the points of inceptors to 30, same as C:SM, and makes them 3-6.

I thought Incetpors were 60 points in the new Codex. At 30 points they would be a no-brainer but at 60 they are still a bit steep for me.

[Arkhanist]

They were 45 points plus wargear in the index; they're down to 30 plus gear in the pdf, so still 60 all in, or 86 for the plasma exterminator version.

[Blindhamster]

 

I think it'll just be that the intercessor kit doesn't come with any melee weapons beyond the knife.

But the chapter sprue do, blood angels one will just be a chain sword :/

You mean there will be Chapter upgrade sprues like for the normal marine kits? And there'll be a Space Marine one with a power sword, and Blood Angels and Space Wolves ones will have chainswords?

Exactly this. I bet the deathwatch one comes with both options and there are neither in the base kit.

[Pathstrider]

Looks like warhanmer community today confirms the theory - the ultramarine upgrade sprue contains a power sword. Either our upgrade sprue will have a chainsword or the intercessor sprue has one as default (though I don't see one on the photos)

[Karhedron]

What are people's thoughts on Intercessor weapon choice? The Stalker looks quite nice since I see the main role for these guys in a BA army being objective campers.

[Arkhanist]

I don't see much point to the auto bolt rifle - don't get me wrong, it's a decent cheap weapon, but reivers do it even cheaper with the identical stat bolt carbine with their additional options to boot, though obvs they're not troops. Intercessors do get the grenade launcher to make up for lack of special weapons, so the standard rifle squad doesn't entirely suck. I too initially liked the stalkers for back field camping, knocking the odd wound off with the -2ap. but I worry they'd be more vulnerable to deep strikes or fast movers and x5 S4 shots is not going to scare much.  

 

Some mathhammer (not mine) on the options which doesn't favour the stalker:

http://tabletopteacher.blogspot.fr/2017/07/space-marine-unit-spotlight-intercessor.html

[TheHarrower]

Does anyone have the old PDF with the Reivers points on it saved? There was a pic of a Blood Angels Reiver in black. I'm painting mine and wanted to go that route. Looked cool.

[Panzer]

Yeah I don't see a reason to take the assault variant.

The Stalker variant does sound cool but considering that it's not that much more powerful than their Rapid Fire variant means that unless I go for some fluffy/thematic/narrative based squad I'd go with the Rapid Fire variant one over the Stalker variant. (seriously, 30" is enough range and for a S4 weapon there is not much of a difference between AP-1 and AP-2)

[Blindhamster]

Yeah I don't see a reason to take the assault variant.

The Stalker variant does sound cool but considering that it's not that much more powerful than their Rapid Fire variant means that unless I go for some fluffy/thematic/narrative based squad I'd go with the Rapid Fire variant one over the Stalker variant. (seriously, 30" is enough range and for a S4 weapon there is not much of a difference between AP-1 and AP-2)

Based on linked math hammer, looks like there is a lot to be said for the auto bolt rifles, if we get the advance and charge rule, they'll honestly be a no brainer.

[Panzer]

Advance&charge is nice, tho why exactly would I want Intercessors that desperately in melee? That's probably one of the last units I'd think about when thinking about using advance&charge. ^^

[Blindhamster]

They're as good as an assault squad in melee though?

[Panzer]

Yeah but Assault Squads can have Jump Packs to get into melee faster and better melee weapon options. ^^

That being said I'm not a fan of Assault Marines as dedicated melee unit either. That's a job for our Elite section imo.

[Blindhamster]

Yeah but Assault Squads can have Jump Packs to get into melee faster and better melee weapon options. ^^

 

They can indeed get there faster, but they'll survive less time when they do. They also would be giving up any kind of shooting to advance and charge. As for better melee weapon options - the sergeant does, otherwise... not especially. Intercessors are as good as assault marines with chainswords. The Eviscerator is too expensive to typically be useful.

 

Intercessors with auto bolt rifles if they can advance and charge feel very blood angelish (not a word, i know), in their approach. constantly on the front foot, pushing forward, always being able to lay down fire as they push toward the enemy. Couple them with a priest for +1 Strength, and hope for the Sergeant to get power sword option back (which makes him better than an assault squad sergeant with power sword incidentally - but even without, intercessor sergeant has 4 attacks due to our free chainsword, vs assault squad sergeant with 2 attacks with an axe, sword or fist).

 

 

That being said I'm not a fan of Assault Marines as dedicated melee unit either. That's a job for our Elite section imo.

 

This much is true, in terms of primary assault units, but assault squads and intercessors can make fine bully units, or support melee units.

[Arkhanist]

Does anyone have the old PDF with the Reivers points on it saved? There was a pic of a Blood Angels Reiver in black. I'm painting mine and wanted to go that route. Looked cool.

Found it by accident :)

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/K3ns3JDOGE2asjf/Primaris-week-3/239fhfght_ENG_Primaris_Marines_Release_03_July_22nd.pdf

[Panzer]

 

Does anyone have the old PDF with the Reivers points on it saved? There was a pic of a Blood Angels Reiver in black. I'm painting mine and wanted to go that route. Looked cool.

Found it by accident

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/K3ns3JDOGE2asjf/Primaris-week-3/239fhfght_ENG_Primaris_Marines_Release_03_July_22nd.pdf

 

It's actually a Deathwatch Blood Angel. Tho no reason to not paint them in black. Looks way more fitting anyway. ^^

[Arkhanist]

Reivers with bolt carbines are 18 points per with the same stats as Intercessors with auto bolt rifles for 21 (from the new points pdf if I've done my sums right). Reivers get the heavy bolt pistol, -1 ld and shock grenades for free. If you give them grav chutes or grapnels, they're still only 20 per. The intercessors are troops, and looks like the aux grenade launcher is free (but only 1 can be used per squad as it's still a grenade attack), and BA can only give the sgt a chainsword (no powersword for us in the pdf)

 

It seems to me reivers are cheaper and better at moving up the field laying down fire than auto bolt rifle intercessors. Sure, you can fill the troop slots with intercessors, but then you probably want them hanging around holding objectives in the back, at which point you'd be better with a heavy weapon tac squad, sniper scouts, or intercessors with standard rifles.

 

In a pure primaris army or because you like them? Sure, fair enough. 

[Blindhamster]

I don't see much value in comparing intercessors to reivers. Reivers are elites. Intercessors are troops. In elites slot we have better options than reivers assuming a mixed army.

 

In troops, I prefer intercessors to scouts or tacticals. I'd personally run a mix of auto bolt rifle and standard bolt rifle, a couple of smaller units with bolt rifles for back field objective, a single larger one for more front line.

 

Btw, a tactical sergeant with power sword will statistically lose to an intercessor sergeant with chainsword. Intercessor has 4 attacks, so is more likely to get the wound in to force a save. Intercessor also has 2 wounds so is twice as durable.