Stompin' Humies - the Orks Tactics thread.

[Caillum]

Tactics Time! :D

 

Now, I am no Orks expert, nor even an Orks player yet. But they are very much on my radar at the moment (I have two "Start Collecting" boxes in my cart right now). And 8th Edition rules are such a drastic departure from 7th that a clean slate has been applied to the game, giving everything a degree of playability. It's a great opportunity for us to playtest units, weapon options and army lists. It's also past time we got an Ork Tactics thread started. :)

 

For some added benefits, here's a link to Da WAAAGH!'s Tactics forum:

http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?showforum=4

 

To kick things off - the Brigade Detachment. At 2000 points, it is definitely a possibility, as every compulsory slot has units that cost <50 points. This allows you to meet the minimum requirements whilst still creating a themed and competitive army. 12+ Command Points is nothing to sneeze at!

 

So my question is this... What would you take in a Brigade Detachment?

Edited July 5, 2017 by Caillum

[Redtoof]

I'd focus on boyz with a load of cheap supporting units like the elite characters, individual rokkit buggies and rokkit kans. if I could squeeze some trukks in for a couple of the smaller boyz squads that would be nice.

[Caillum]

That's a good point Redtoof. I was actually thinking something along the lines of this:

HQ

Warboss: big choppa; shoota; attack squig 64

Weirdboy: Warpath XX

Big Mek XX

 

TROOPS

25 Boyz: Boss Nob (big choppa); 2 × rokkit launcha 183

25 Boyz: Boss Nob (big choppa); 2 × rokkit launcha 183

10 Gretchin XX

10 Gretchin XX

10 Gretchin XX

10 Gretchin XX

 

ELITES

Mad Dok Grotsnik XX

Nob with Waaagh! Banner XX

Runtherd: squig hound XX

Runtherd: squig hound XX

 

FAST ATTACK

Deffkopta: kustom mega-blasta; bigbomm 64

Deffkopta: kustom mega-blasta; bigbomm 64

Deffkopta: kustom mega-blasta; bigbomm 64

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Deff Dread: skorcha; skorcha 153

Deff Dread: skorcha; skorcha 153

Morkanaut: kustom force field 374

Meka-Dread: rippa klaw & rattler kannon; Kustom Force Field 256

 

Detachments

• Brigade Detachment

 

2,000 points

 

I am pretty keen on the Deathskulls fluff, so I figure I will use Mad Dok Grotsnik (as Warlord), and the plethora of Command Points sounds like a good way to represent their lucky warpaint! :D I also love the Dread Mob concept, and I nearly started it many times throughout 7th. But after looking at the discussions around 8th, it seems a "combined arms" force of Boyz and Walkers would work better. A KFF bubble on a pair of tough walkers seems like it could work well.

 

The HQ slots were easy. Having a Warboss for a Waaagh! is only going to help those Mobs. Weirdboyz are very good now, and an absolute bargain. And the Big Mek is there to repair his Morkanaut.

 

I went around in circles with Troops. I think 10 Ork Boyz (or 12 in a Trukk) don't do enough to warrant spamming, and 20 is too close to giving up their "Green Tide" bonus, so 25-30 is the trick. Gretchin were necessary to fill the other slots, pretty much as screens and objective-grabbers. Points becomes the issue when you have to fill 6 slots.

 

Elites was the easiest area to fill, with units like the Waaagh! Banner Nob and Grotsnik being too good to pass up when it comes to buffing those Mobs. Runtherds are necessary when you have Gretchin, so done deal. With 8 available slots, I also toyed with Nobz, MANz, Burnaz and Meks (I only disregarded Tankbustas as Deathskulls don't like them).

 

Fast Attack was such a pain. I toyed with a Goffs army, using Zagstruck and 3x5 Stormboyz (cheapest unit in the slot), but I figure they needed numbers to get across the board. Are Deffkoptas even worth taking with KMB's? The AoBR models have kopta rokkits, and look excellent, but saving 19 points per model was necessary. Skorchas and Wartrakks do look more appealing sometimes...

 

Lootas are a quintessential Deathskulls unit, so I would love to get them into Heavy Support. I also prefer the idea of a Gorkanaut over a Meka-Dread (with the Big Mek also grabbing a KFF), but I cannot get it to fit within 2000 points. Killas Kans seem to be pretty solid now, but again points were my Achilles heel. The Deff Dreads might need to go in order to gain more flexibility in the list...

[Sviar]

I thinking that a few Deffkoptas would be a good tactical choice. Considering(if I remember the rules correctly) that you may hold them in ambush and you do not have to roll a die when you want them to fly in at the start of your turn. This mean that you can attack your opponent in the back and he/she does have to assign at least one unit to turn around and engage the Deffkoptas, it would be even better if he/she has to rescue another unit so you'll be tying up two units with them. As a bonus to this Deffkoptas aslo have Big bomm which is nice.

[Aothaine]

Orks are scary in 8th. They get so much for the points. Also I would do some testing with your minis and see how your Orks fair against the continued shooty and stabby armies and units you will see.

 

Just a heads up. Blood Angels players will be catching up on Death Company and their roll at erasing horde units soon. With chainswords they get 4 attacks on the charge.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Aothaine

[Caillum]

Funny you mention choppy Marines, as I had my first 8th Ed game last night against a Blood Claw force!

My mate @Lachdannan brought his very first army (Space Wolves) and one of his many side-projects - a Freebooterz force. Gave me an opportunity to test Orks out before I make any purchases. 1000 points a side, completely un-optimised.

I ran a Spearhead Detachment:
- Badrukk & 3 ammo runts,
- 30 Slugga Boyz with power klaw Nob
- 3 kannon Big Gunz,
- 3 rokkit Killa Kans,
- 7 Flash Gitz & 7 ammo runts,
- 15 Kommandos with 2 big shootas and power klaw Nob.

He ran a Patrol Detachment:
- Ragnar Blackmane,
- Ulrik the Slayer,
- 2 x 10 Blood Claws with a power fist each,
- 5 Long Fangs (1 heavy bolter, 2 missile launchers, 1 lascannon),
- 5 Wolf Guard Terminators with an assault cannon.

We kept it very simple and ran the "Only War" mission, Slay and Secure objective, Dawn of War deployment, with him as the underdog. Straight away I made the mistake of not allowing myself room for my units in deployment. Flash Gitz are huge (40mm bases), so they ended up in a really poor position.

He went first, advancing most of his army, and took out a few Boyz. I moved my Flash Gitz up, but they were still out of position with no good line-of-sight. The Boyz advanced (too far, as it turned out). Didn't have a good place to bring in the Kommandos, so I held them back. Kans moved up and didn't do anything. Kannons didn't do much except hold an Objective.

He had one Blood Claw unit centre stage (with Ragnar and Ulrik supporting), which he got up close to the Boyz. The Wolf Guard Terminators were nearby on an Objective - they were within Rapid Fire range and let loose with their storm bolters. Wow! 4 shots each at half range! Between them and the Blood Claws, I lost around 10 Boyz. The Blood Claws, Ragnar and Ulrik charged, with Ragnar attacking first. I used "Counter Offensive" to get some attacks in with the Boyz, which was very good - took out half of the Blood Claws before they swung. Morale finished off the Boyz though. We forgot about Ulrik's "Slayer's Oath" rule. :/ The other Blood Claw unit engaged the Kans in slogfest that lasted the whole game. My turn consisted of shooting the Flash Gitz at Ragnar and charging him (brutal). Badrukk didn't make it into combat unfortunately. The Kommandos came up near the Long Fangs, but failed their charge.

The Blood Claws engaged the Flash Gitz, but the ammo runts absorbed the damage. Badrukk took a pile of damage from the Long Fangs (also forgot about the rule where he can't be targeted unless he's closest). Kommandos were almost completely wiped by the Wolf Guard Terminators' deadly shooting. Ragnar went down to the Flash Gitz (they are Nobz, after all). I sent Badrukk in to fight Ulrik, but Ulrik survived and killed him. The Flash Gitz eventually finished off the Blood Claws and Ulrik. The last Kommando died to Overwatch. :/

The Flash Gitz were now in the open, which meant they were doomed - Wolf Guard Terminators and Long Fangs ripped them apart.

The other Blood Claw unit finally finished off the Kans in Turn 5 and it was over.

We both had an Objective (2 VPs each) and D3 for slaying the Warlord. I rolled 3 vs his 1 and won the game! Was brutal though - we had less than 20 models on the board between us!

Orks takeouts:
- Boyz are gonna go down hard. KFF was on my wish list, but even then you need lots of bodies.
- Kommandos have to stay in cover, or they are pointless. Cheap at least.
- Kannons are ok, but I would have preferred a Painboy or Big Mek for the price.
- Killa Kans were tough, but they need higher numbers too. They missed a lot in combat, but when they hit they are nasty.
- Flash Gitz are exactly what you expect. They got 1 good round of shooting, which was brutally accurate for Orks, but they die easy. Cover, Battlewagon or KFF is a must. Always take the ammo runts! 4 points for a re-roll and a wound is unbelievable value!

Space Wolves takeouts:
- Ragnar is pretty solid. Re-roll charges is especially good.
- Ulrik the Slayer is, IMHO, an auto-include. The 9" bubble of Ld9, the 6" bubble of re-rolls to hit in the Fight phase, and the potential wound re-rolls is such a good deal, especially when you can heal models too. Not too shabby in combat either.
- Blood Claws are pretty good! Add in a Wolf Guard Pack Leader, plasma weapons & Lukas the Trickster and you have some powerful, points-efficient Troops.

- Terminators are exactly like you imagine them to be. Tough as nails, brutal firepower. Actually something to consider.

 

Combat is definitely back on the menu in 8th Edition! Some units like Killa Kans would have been better if they were near a Waaagh! Banner Nob. Painboys seem to be very good, especially compared to Space Marine Apothecaries (they don't have the save-after-a-save). And while they don't seem like much in a vacuum, Command Points are absolutely incredible. Counter-Offensive was so much better than you'd expect. I will be trying to run my Brigade for sure now!

[Lachdannan]

Was a good learning game, and it was good to field that ancient army. Shame about the photo's but that is probably a good thing, due to the ancient paint schemes they are in, as well as resplendent in all their old school banners.

 

I thought it might be useful to have my input from the other side of the table.

 

Orks in a big mob will always be target, so a KFF or multiple large mobs will ensure they hit the lines and do some damage. Your use of stealing the initiative was a good one, and one I will certainly look to use in the future! It also showed you that even a few orks will dish out some damage.

 

Flash gitz were good at dishing out a lot of firepower, but like you saw, they are fragile against shooting. Probably need some screening units in front (grots?). That said, their ablative wound grots took a lot of the damage going their way, so they were able to club Ragnar good.

 

I like the Kannons, and thought the use of shells was a good amount of damage and hits, I just think I was fortunate with the saves, that and they were aimed at units in cover or terminators.

 

Killa Kans did a good job to tie up those Blood Claws. I think in hindsight, it was unwise to send the Blood Claws in, though I had nothing else available to take them down. I am glad, however, that they did take them in the end. I do think numbers here would help, maybe 4 to start so it doesn't matter if you lose one early so you can get those extra attacks. Otherwise, rather solid.

 

Kommandos just takes some getting used to. I think cover is very important to them and perhaps have used them to help an existing unit (Kans or Flash Gitz). Either that or skulk as a potential target and put some worry on the opponent. They were unfortunate against the Wolf Guard as they did pump out the shots amazingly.

 

Despite the hoard of models across from me, the Space Wolves did will to make a dent. It was a good game, Though man of the match for me would be a tie between the Wolf Guard Terminators and Long Fangs. It would definitely be the Flash Gitz for you, as they soaked a ton of hits, and only the Wolf Guard and Long Fangs took them down.

 

Poor Ragnar and Ulrick! They will have their rewenge!

[FlamingDeth]

While you can do a brigade detachment I'm not sure you necessarily should. Extra CPs are handy but if you're making a list that's less than 2k you may be gimping the individual units. I'm usually sticking to 1500 points myself since I don't have much game time and I like things to go quickly, so I think battalion is more my cup of tea.

 

Which brings up the next dilemma! I have a plethora of trukks looted from the lesser factions' basic transports, as I'm sure many ork players do, as basic transports are probably the most plentiful things to find on the battlefield. However with 8th edition trukks more than doubling in costs I'm having a hard time making list that uses more than a couple of them, especially with ork leadership being tied to a core of large mobs. Anyone have any ideas for a moderately effective trukk heavy build, or do they just have to gather dust until GW vomits forth an actual codex?

[Caillum]

Oh, absolutely! At 2000 points, I am struggling a bit to build a Brigade list. Determined to make it work though! :)

 

Trukks and their place in 8th has come up a few times around the forums. They do seem to struggle to fulfill a role now, especially given the strength of Green Tide Boyz. What I did notice, however, is how much damage a small mob of Boyz can do. Using the "Counter-offensive" stratagem allowed 4 Boyz and a Nob with PK to kill 5 MEQs. This was without a nearby Waaagh! Banner or Warpath or any other buffs. Maybe MSU Orks in Trukks could work...

 

Imagine this - 6 units of 10/11 Ork Boyz (each in a Trukk) will leave room for all your Characters (Warboss, Weirdboy, Big Mek, Waaagh! Banner Nob, Painboy, +1 extra). All your units won't get every buff, but you can hedge your bets with a bit of crossover

- 2 units could be in range of one or more auras. If you go for just a big choppa Nob, the Squad & Trukk will only cost 151 points...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Trukk are nice to transport burnas boys and tankbustas. Makes burna boyz more able to deal their damage and keeps tankbustas "safe" for drive by shootings also increasing their reach.

[FlamingDeth]

I was sort of looking at it and thinking of running a vanguard instead, but the loss of CP would make me sad. We'll see what I can come up with.

[MagicMan]

In an Ork army, since our saves and to hit rolls are generally so poor anyway, I've found I'm not using that many CP's on those sort've re-rolls that i'd burn with marines.

 

 

Re-roll that 5+ to hit? That 5+ save? Ehhh... 


I've mostly been using mine to re-roll damage dice, or charges. Although you might be able to re-roll one or both of the charge dice anyway with ere we go, depending on your groups interpretation of that rule.

[DeRome90]

Personally i would drop Mad Dok... I think he is too expensive for what he does. (except your opponent spams snipers  )

Your brigade list lacks some long range DAKKAAAAAA (IMHO)
read: Lootas.

You already mentioned that you want to field them, so drop maybe a deff dread... they are worth it 
I know that you also like the walkers, but with only Kustom Blastas as Dakka it might get a little bit too "hot" for your boyz. It's just too bad, that Rokkits cost more.

[civsmitty]

Boys over toys. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of trukk boys in this version of the rules; trukk is too pricey, you lose mob rule, no +1 attack for having lots of ladz, you can't hop out and charge after moving....

 

Basically I'd rather have 30 howling psychopaths running every turn than a trukk. Heck, they didn't even give us the fun version of Ramshackle back.

[Perry]

Has anyone tried using a Stomper yet?

 

I have a 2k tournament coming up and was thinking of taking one, supported by a KFF Big Mek.

[toaae]

Basically I'd rather have 30 howling psychopaths running every turn than a trukk. Heck, they didn't even give us the fun version of Ramshackle back.

 

I've always been partial to big mobs of boys, but I do agree with you. Trukks are for the specialists, tankbustas, nobs or such. Not really worth sticking boys in. In the few games I've played with boyz in a trukk, they haven't done much.

[Caillum]

@DeRome90, you're right. I wanted some Lootaz in there anyway, so I'm playing around with a unit of 8-10. Think there's gonna be less walkers than I planned, but the list should be pretty good & balanced. I want to keep Mad Dok though - he fits the fluff side for me, and he's a tough Warlord.

 

What's everyone's thoughts on the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut debate? Is the KFF worth 10 more points AND the loss in firepower/melee prowess?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I think the KFF debate depends on how valuable Ork lives are to you.

If you have precious few and vital stuff to protect, it's worth it. If you have boys before toys army then you need aggression instead of defense because numbers will be your armour.

[Warhead01]

I think the KFF debate depends on how valuable Ork lives are to you.

If you have precious few and vital stuff to protect, it's worth it. If you have boys before toys army then you need aggression instead of defense because numbers will be your armour.

I don't see it that way at all. Protecting units is easily as important as protecting the good stuff. Holding ground covering objectives and defusing incoming firepower is as important as being aggressive. You can easily do both thing with Orks. Port off a suicide unit to tie up the enemy or beat them up, do it again the next turn. and still have points for other units, like grot mobs and shoota boys the move up the board at their own speeds. This is how I do it and it works very well for me. Nothing in my army is valuable, beyond that weird boy.

I can't as of now be deepstruk against due to large well spaced 9" bubbles. They can land near the edges but that's not that good for them or bad for me.  And don't forget your Kommandos! 

 

You can see the frustration and disbelief on the other players faces when they fail to kill grots. Priceless. (Oh, and Grots get a 6+ save now!) 

 

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I see where you are getting at, but in my experience, sometimes people are so eager to always get that KFF save taht they lose agressiveness and let the enemy dictate the tempo. In other words becomes a distraction. I'm not saying it's at all bad for hordes but the eagerness to save boyz sometimes can be a downside. Like many things YMMV... Im only talking from my personal experience. :) 

[Warhead01]

Ah. Indeed. Don't become distracted by the shiny save.   
It's really there for turn one to protect a good bit of your whatever you wants. Have a sort of fluid plan and stay on mission is the way. We have so many sharp teef now it's amazing. 

Question for everyone. What do you like better for the points or Power Level. 1 Gorkanaut/Morkanaut (Your choice) or 3 Deff Dreads? I've tried the Gorkanaut and it can take a beating.

I really want to try the 3 Def Dreads they're  not much more in cost than the Gorkanaut.

[Sith’ari]

Simply due to target saturation, I'd say that three dreads would be better than a Gorkanaught. However a KFF Morkanaught in a Kan wall list would be worth its weight in gold!

[civsmitty]

Tested out trukk boys this weekend. *fart noises* would be how I could sum them up. However, loading trukks with shoota boys and having them run around...possible.

 

Buggies are remarkably durable, the fact the big shoota doesn't lower an armor save is a war crime, big choppas are pretty good, a warboss on a bike with a PK ate three Moon Bounce Marines for breakfast...I'm pleased, generally.

 

It's feeling like 8ed is going to be the edition where the tougher lists win.

Edited July 24, 2017 by civsmitty

[Galron]

Any feelings on how a Rollin' Thunder List would work. A couple battlewagons with supa-kannon, kill-tank with giga-shoota, big trak with a flakka cannon, a couple deff-dreds, rokkit 'coptas, supported by a couple squads of stormboyz and kommandoes and a couple big meks with KFFs.

 

 

I think it would be fun and unexpected. Not sure how well it would do. I have been grabbing a vehicle here and a vehicle there over the years as I find them on ebay and figured I would try and make a playable list with it.  Anyway, tossing it against the wall.

[civsmitty]

Any feelings on how a Rollin' Thunder List would work. A couple battlewagons with supa-kannon, kill-tank with giga-shoota, big trak with a flakka cannon, a couple deff-dreds, rokkit 'coptas, supported by a couple squads of stormboyz and kommandoes and a couple big meks with KFFs.

 

 

I think it would be fun and unexpected. Not sure how well it would do. I have been grabbing a vehicle here and a vehicle there over the years as I find them on ebay and figured I would try and make a playable list with it.  Anyway, tossing it against the wall.

 

Hmmm....I have an 1850 game this weekend. You want I should test this out for you?

Edited July 26, 2017 by civsmitty