FLY model pivot over enemy models?

[MisterDutch]

I have a question with this. Last night my StormTalon, the Space Marine flyer, went into "hover mode" and was subsequently charged by a blob of conscripts. Like so:

 

The question was, Is the Stormtalon able to pivot on the spot and then fly away?

 

This question is relevant for situations where a flyer gets stuck in combat in this manner (f.e. when it's charged by Gargolyes, which can fly and are therefor able to charge and surround flyers).

 

If we'd rule that the flyer is NOT able to pivot because it's blocked from being placed that way by the infantry, then he can only fly straight forward for a minimum of it's min. move characteristic - potentially forcing him off the board, and thus destroying him.

 

Relevant rules seem to be:

 

 

Stormtalon special rule: 

 

SUPERSONIC: Each time this model moves, first pivot it on the spot up to 90 degrees (this does not contribute to how far the model moves), and then move the model straight forwards. Note that it cannot pivot again after the initial pivot.

 

 

Rulebook (Move phase)

 

MOVING: (...) It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, (...) If the datasheet for a model says it can FLY, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there.

 

MINIMUM MOVE: Some models that can FLY have a Move characteristic consisting of two values. The first is the model's minimum speed - in the Movement phase, all parts of the model's base must end the move at least that far from where they started. The second is the maximum speed - no part of the model's base can be moved further than this. If a model cannot make its minimum move, or is forced to move off the battlefield because of its minumum speed, it is destroyed and removed from the battlefield - the model has either stalled and crashed or been forced to abandon the battle.

 

We ruled that it could NOT pivot, since we reasoned that after the pivot the model should at least be able to be positioned in a legal manner, and "moving over" enemy models only allows the model with FLY to get across them, but not end on top of them. In my case, the Stormtalon had just enough room to not go off the board - of course, it could also have Hovered again and escape the combat but the original question still stands.

 

 

MINIMUM MOVE: Some models that can FLY have a Move characteristic consisting of two values. The first is the model's minimum speed - in the Movement phase, all parts of the model's base must end the move at least that far from where they started. The second is the maximum speed - no part of the model's base can be moved further than this. If a model cannot make its minimum move, or is forced to move off the battlefield because of its minumum speed, it is destroyed and removed from the battlefield - the model has either stalled and crashed or been forced to abandon the battle.

Edited July 7, 2017 by MisterDutch

[Jolemai]

If it's in Hover mode then it's eligible to be charged and thus locked in combat. The only movement option is to fall back, so it would remain in Hover mode and follow the rules for falling back.

 

IMO.

[MisterDutch]

If it's in Hover mode then it's eligible to be charged and thus locked in combat. The only movement option is to fall back, so it would remain in Hover mode and follow the rules for falling back.

 

IMO.

 

No, the rules state that if a model starts the movement phase within 1" of an enemy model (check) it must either remain stationary or fall back. Falling back means that it must end its movement phase more than 1" away from an enemy model. So the Stormtalon could either go into Hover Mode again and hover away up to 20" in any direction, or it could fly straight minimum 20", and both would be legal Fall Back moves as long as they end 1" away from any enemy model. But the question is how to handle the pivoting before movement if the flyer is surrounded: for more details see my rules quotes from the OP..

[MysticTemplar]

I believe it would be allowed to pivot - as that's part of the model's movement, even if it doesn't contribute to distance, and as you noted with the Fly keyword, models are allowed to move over enemy models.

 

While you are correct that sitting on top of enemy models isn't a legal place for the flier to end, it hasn't finished its movement yet, (and indeed, has to move 20" from that spot), so it's ultimately irrelevant.

[OutlawSixActual]

The pivot and the forward movement are all part of one move. Saying that the flyer must be placeable during the pivot would be like saying it must also be placeable at every point along its straight-line move.

[Adeptus]

Agreed, the pivot is part of the move, and fliers can move over enemy models.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

So consensus is for flyers...

 

1. if flyer is in hover mode and it is surrounded then it can only fall back, but since it has key word fly it can still shoot all it's ranged weapons.

 

2. if flyer is zooming/supersonic (etc) then it can pivot freely above enemy models before it moves in a straight line (minimum move distance).

[Eddie Orlock]

So consensus is for flyers...

 

1. if flyer is in hover mode and it is surrounded then it can only fall back, but since it has key word fly it can still shoot all it's ranged weapons.

 

2. if flyer is zooming/supersonic (etc) then it can pivot freely above enemy models before it moves in a straight line (minimum move distance).

Both moves are technically 'fallbacks' as that is the procedure called out in the rules for leaving a close combat. Move restricted models need to remain compliant with their move restrictions. A move isn't complete until it is complete, thus an exemption during the move is available at all steps during the moving process unless stated otherwise.

[MysticTemplar]

So consensus is for flyers...

 

1. if flyer is in hover mode and it is surrounded then it can only fall back, but since it has key word fly it can still shoot all it's ranged weapons.

 

2. if flyer is zooming/supersonic (etc) then it can pivot freely above enemy models before it moves in a straight line (minimum move distance).

 

I think it'd be more accurate to say: 'Fall back' doesn't impose any additional restrictions on a model's movement than the general movement rules - so if you assaulted a Valkyrie that had opted out of the airborne/supersonic/hard to hit rules, it would still have the full breadth of its movement options available to it.

 

Which leaves you with:

1.) Any models falling back (regardless of type or special rules) may move in any way they would normally be legally allowed to, as long as they end up more than 1" away from all enemy models.

 

Also, that a model with Supersonic and no option to ignore it *must* always choose to fall back by zooming ahead.