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I was musing my way through a 500pts list when I remembered my Mandrakes (still in cellophane, before you ask...). They seem quite useful, albeit not particularly cheap. With their shrouded rule they have a little bit of resilience so could do well as a unit to pop up unannounced to send some baleblasts somewhere your opponent doesn't want them (you get a few shots so can fish for those 6s too) and to top it off they're fairly swift with an 8" move and no slouches in combat with their number of attacks so they can follow it up with some combat if you need. If you wanted more MSU sounds best to get the most from their rules by targeting different units potentially. Extra numbers would be good to absorb return fire as well as extra shots. Has anyone used them in 8th yet? Special bonus question: my DE are pale skinned, should I still stick with the classic dark skin? I'm thinking a more charcoal colour...

I been thinking on how to equip the Reivers in a all-comer list. First we got Grapnel Launcher that allows you to to come in from any bordedge within 6" and more than 9" from any enemy model. It's allso do not count any vertical distance in there movement. The other option is Grav Chutes thats lets you Deep Stike anywhere but still more 9" any enemy model, at the end of any of your movemnt phases. For me i think thats the Grave Chutes is the better choise becurs you choose what turn you want to come in and anywhere you want to. The option that the Grapnel Launcher's disregurd any vertical distance is very situationel. Secondly we have the choise between either the Bolt Carbine thats is a assault 2 at 24" or a Combat Knife thats give you 1 additional attack, so you get 3 in total. But the only shoting you got is your Heavy Bolt Pistol that 12" and -1 AP. This one is more difficult one and will depend alot on what Chapter Tactics you use. If you use the Black Templars I will take the Combat Knife. But if you are using Raven Guard the Bolt Carbine simes the better choise becurs it's lets you stay more then 12" away form enemy model to get there buff and still shoot 2 times. But by taking the Bolt Carbine you will proberly not get to use there Shock Grenades, thats is one of the bigger reason thats you take the Reivers in the first place with there ability to stop a enemy Infantry unit from shooting Overwatch and they get a -1 to any to hit rolls (both shooting and fighting) until its your turn again. I like to hear your choices on equipment and why.

I cannot find the page in the rulebook for this and search yielded nothing related to this question. Q. Khan has ability to add +1 S during fight phase. TH/PF multiple STR by 2 during fight phase. Does the player who owns the models decide whether to add +1 S to base model S before multiplying it by 2?

I have a question with this. Last night my StormTalon, the Space Marine flyer, went into "hover mode" and was subsequently charged by a blob of conscripts. Like so: The question was, Is the Stormtalon able to pivot on the spot and then fly away? This question is relevant for situations where a flyer gets stuck in combat in this manner (f.e. when it's charged by Gargolyes, which can fly and are therefor able to charge and surround flyers). If we'd rule that the flyer is NOT able to pivot because it's blocked from being placed that way by the infantry, then he can only fly straight forward for a minimum of it's min. move characteristic - potentially forcing him off the board, and thus destroying him. Relevant rules seem to be: We ruled that it could NOT pivot, since we reasoned that after the pivot the model should at least be able to be positioned in a legal manner, and "moving over" enemy models only allows the model with FLY to get across them, but not end on top of them. In my case, the Stormtalon had just enough room to not go off the board - of course, it could also have Hovered again and escape the combat but the original question still stands. MINIMUM MOVE: Some models that can FLY have a Move characteristic consisting of two values. The first is the model's minimum speed - in the Movement phase, all parts of the model's base must end the move at least that far from where they started. The second is the maximum speed - no part of the model's base can be moved further than this. If a model cannot make its minimum move, or is forced to move off the battlefield because of its minumum speed, it is destroyed and removed from the battlefield - the model has either stalled and crashed or been forced to abandon the battle.

My scout units have survived nearly every game I've played in 8th (only about 10 games so far). I have experimented with boaters and sniper rifles, with and without camo cloaks, and with heavy weapons, yet my opponents seem to just leave them alone. Now this might sound like a good thing, especially since I use my scouts primarily to control board space at deployment and for holding objectives. They are doing almost everything I want them to do. But I want them to be a bigger threat. So I am asking for some RG veteran wisdom: How do you equip and play your scouts for maximum impact? Do you consider camo cloaks to be a maybe or a must, or perhaps not worth the points? How many snipers does it take to be a threat? Do you use the shotgun or combat knife varieties? How many scouts do you put in a unit? Do you use Land Speeder Storms? If so, how do you use them and equip them? Thanks for the help!

Well I am going all in with Primaris for 8th. Hell I am going to be playing again as well. With this I have chosen to retire my Blades of Alaric. (5 years project) But 8th and the Primaris gives me a new lease of life. I am super looking forward to this. Colours will be the same as before maybe a little more gold on trims. Messing with PS gave me an idea what they might look like. I can't wait to get my paws on these guys.

Question: Is a CSM army of MSU units functionally as good as a CSM army composed of large units? Better? Worse? Here's some ideas I've come up with: 1) Now that character buffs are auras you can get the same benefit by bubble wrapping a Lord, Prince, or Dark Apostle in four 5-man squads as you with one 20-man squad. 2) 5-man CSM squads will only ever lose 1 model to morale and only then if you lose 4 models in one turn and roll a 6 (assuming you kept the Champion alive). 3) Large squads will benefit more from Sorcerers especially considering the rule of one. 4) The Icons will be more cost effective on larger units, but spammed Icons of Flame on 5-man squads has the potential to get silly. Still not worth it in matched play with points though, unless you're fighting pure Knights or something weird. 5) Even if they are all sticking within 6" of a buff character four 5-man squads can spread out further than one 20-man squad and deny more deep strike area. 6) With the exception of Pox Walkers I don't think we have any Heretic Astartes units that gain a bonus for having large units. 7) Champions are now a free upgrade and power weapons cost as much or less than our former Champion tax. 8) Two 5-man squads can now carpool in the same vehicle making mounted MSU not as inefficient. 9) Mo' detachments, mo' Command points. 10) Four 5-man squads forces the enemy to choose their targets more wisely in both shooting and CC compared to one 20-man squad or else risk losing shots or attacks to overkill. 11) A large unit charging into a 5-man unit and trying to pile in/ consolidate into other nearby small squads avoids a lot of overwatch, but can only attack the unit it charged for that turn. The units piled into will still be able to fight normally. 12) You will almost certainly go second with lots of min sized units. 13) RaW (for now) Raptors +1 morale rolls for enemies within 1" stacks. I'm currently thinking a mix of both will be best depending on role. Deepstrike units hoping for same turn assault via Warp Time or Icon of Wrath will want to be bigger. Obviously Pox Walkers will want to be in big blobs. Everything else though I'm thinking min-sized. I haven't put much thought into cultists though. I don't have any and don't have any imminent plans to get any. I've got Orks to scratch that itch.

Hi all, I wanted to see what the consensus was for a reasonable load-out for the flying tyrant? Luckily I haven't put mine together as yet (lazy), and it seems the old dual twin-linked devourer setup is not the be all and end all now. Looking at doing a deathspitter with slimer worms, and monstrous rending claws potentially, is this possible with the flying version? (given the upper arm slot being taken up with wings) Would i be wrong in thinking from a point of view of the kit itself; you glue on the wings (upper slots), glue on deathspitter arms (lower), then the 'legs' count as rending claws, and the tail is the prehensile pincer? I had bought the forgeworld dual twin-linked devourer kit on the cheap on ebay to get around the lack of arm slots, but this should do the job? Thanks.

Edit, 9th edition stuff starts here. Page 17, post number 404. Hello! First I'll reintroduce myself. Once upon a time and for many years I was uberwolve here on the B&C. I just changed my name because it's the one I use nearly everywhere else. I've been playing Orks Since 3rd edition and suffered through the last 3 editions as best I could. I was ready to get rid of everything and then the announcement came. 8th edition was coming! And 8th edition is here! I played my first two games yesterday and enjoyed both of them. It was refreshing. This will be an ongoing thread. The first game was only 1000 points just to get my feet wet. As in editions before there are things that play out much as you expect they would regardless of the rules changes. For example feeding the enemy one unit at a time, which they then destroy goes as you'd expect...Poorly. But I quickly learned what my opponent had in mind and tried out a few of the new rules. Having lost the game but successfully probed his head movies for "tactics." That's right. He was going to have a huddle around a commander to get reroll 1's and hid behind a wall of razerbacks... and shoot me to bitz! I did however manage to BBQ his commander with my Burna Boys! (Take that!) I managed to get slay the warlord and that's it. We called it in 3 turns, he had a blast! Game two. 1500 points. I traded out a few units and were were ready to go. Secure and control, table quarters (Old school cleanse deployment.) I deployed in a corner packing the trukk, Battle Wagon Weirdboy, 30Boys and 3 Kannons with krew under my KFF. (Easily and with room left over.) I put Komandos and 2 solo Deff Koptas in (what ever it's called where you don't have to set them up)... reserve/outflanking/hiding/scouting/ I wasn't sure where to put my 30 Stormboys but they were forward and to my right side. I set up 15 grot in front of my kannons and 10 more on my objective. Burnas boys and Banner Nom were in the trukk and 4 Nobs with big choppas were in the Wagon. Whitescar Space Marines went first. Two Stomtallons?(the small ones) came right up and started shooting. Killing loads of Stormboys. (Who were being bossed around by Zagstruk.) Over all my opponent was trying to figure out what to do. He'd changed his commander on foot out for the same but on Bike and added a biker Chaplin.(And the two flyers) Ork turn. Lunch time! Burna boys hop out of their trukk, now acting as two mobs of 5 burnas. Trukk and Battle wagon move out towards the enemy as fast as they can. Stormy boys set up to charge the flyer on my right (Burnas were looking at the one on the left.) Weirdboy gets +2 to casting Da Jump and sends to Boys all the way to the other side of the table.9" 1MM away from the Marines rear Rhino. I decided to bring up all my reserve units right then and right there as well. Now I have 4 units right to his rear right flank. Shooting. Burna boys cook the heck out of the Storm talon. (I learned in game one that 1 mobs of 5 is actually better than 1 mob of 10. Rolling 1 D3 for each mob gives me, it seems, better odds of more shots. I managed a might 1 for one mob and 2 for the other 5, 10.) The storm talon was left with 1 wound remaining. My Storm boys charged his other flyer and made contact then Zagstruk charged as well. Both units were as close as they could get so the charges were easily made. The boys mob managed a might 12" roll for their charge range and contacted the rhino and the Chaplin and avoided dragging other nearby units into combat, much to the dismay of the Space Marine player. (A lesson in model placement.) The rhino was left with one wound. The Orks rolled out 92 attacks, none bothered to try to swing at the Chaplin. Hitting on 3+ is amazing. Wounding on 5+ is old hat. We're used to it. An amazing first turn that left a very shocked opponent. (Terror is my favorite weapon. Shock and Awe! ) The drags the space marines into combat for the next 3 turns while the Orks fight for all their worth! Form this point on he has no real plan. His storm talons go to hover mode, Shoot poorly and try to move a bit. Nothing much. One tries to run off really far to my right to escape the storm boys. His shooting is fairly pointless over all. His army is locked down. My next turn the trukk and battle wagon move into charge position , transported units get out.( in the correct order) My bruna boys ran towards the Battle wagon with plans to get on board as soon as they could get close enough. (1 mob of 5 remain at that point.) And Huzza for assault weapons that don't roll to hit! Burnas hit the talon 10 times and it explodes! My kannons take aim and hit the other talon 3 times wound 3 and 2 get through, it had taken 2 damage already. Kannons roll a total of 9 damage. KA-BOOM! Talon no more! Charge phase. Wartrukk charges a Razorback as does the Wagon (with Deff Rolla.) Truk makes it in, wagon rolls in(No over watch against the battle wagon thanks to the trukk!) My Big choppa Nons charge and can all fight. My def Koptas and komanado were all stuck in at this point ( it's all a blur what turn is this? haha.) Long story short, the Rhino transport had been destroyed, my Kopptas were in and only one had been wounded my Komandos had killed an attack bike. (Marines have too few attack to divide up and do much with.) He had two units of 5 in the rhino of which 4 models got out due to disembarking and not having room for more models. (Good tactic, play it right and it could do more for you.) The scrum was on and the clock was running out. I was nearly out of boys bur had enough units still there to tie him up and fresh units rolling in, the war trukk and Battle wagon. Deff rollin down maines several units buffed by the WAAAGH banner nob. he game came to a close with my 4 units on his objective to his one commander. He wanted to call the game, just like he always does before he takes a big loss, I played out my turn for the win. I owned both objectives and had line braker, he had first blood. Neither warlord had been killed. This battle report was all over the place, I'll do better next time. Lessons. Burna Boys are Madness! Da Jump is fantastic! 30 boys isn't enough. Needs more Orks in my list. 30 Storm Boys has a place but I probably could have done more with less. Single unit Deff Koptas work. Remember how forced Disembarkation works. First you see how many models you can set up with in 3", the rest are dead, now roll to see how many of the models you set up live or die. 4 of his models got out but it could have been 4 in any combination from the models of either unit. A Re Roll can be a single dice. and you can't reroll a reroll. So no spending a command point to reroll one dice and then using a reroll on two dice(as in charge distance) Fixing a vehicle is done at the end f the movement phase and by models outside and within 1" of a vehicle. Big Choppa Nobs mob is kinda cool! Remember to use command points when it looks like you may super fail a LD test! Keeping models from "running off" is good. Would have maybe been good for keeping his models locked up in combat but it's a double edged sword. It could draw them closer to where you don't want them. My opponent has now played 4 games. His plan to hide his squads behind T7 rhino walls was and is to be expected. Easy plan for deployment seems reasonable. He seemed shocked at the loss of his commander in the first game and his Chaplin in the second game. Both provide some kind of buff. Remember to look for ways to shut those down. None of my characters died or were even wounded. WAAAAAAGH Da 8th edition Orks! WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! Thanks for reading. More Mayhem to come! Hope to have pictures next time.

Apologies if posted in the wrong forum, mods please move if needed, however played my first game of 8th yesterday guard v death guard. We played 3 a side and so it was very slow but overall everyone came away with a positive view and are already talking about a summer campaign in the club. There were two things that came up that I wanted to ask about: Mortars & characters So Characters can only be targeted if they are the closest visible enemy unit, however mortars do not need line of sight, therefore we came up with 3 possibilities: Can only ever target characters if they have line of sight to them as well as them being the closest target Can only ever target characters if they are the closest target (irrelevant of LoS) Can snipe characters if no enemy units are in LoS even if the character is not the closest We believe it should be the second but wanted to ask The other one was more generic, are we doing cover wrong? Is it correct that in this edition it’s the same to hit a tank in the open as it would be if it’s through a small hole in two ruins but not actually in the ruins itself? Feels wrong but if that’s how it should play to speed it up so be it. Thoughts / views appreciated

i was wondering what is the benefit of using khan in the new edition. His ability to add 1 S to units in the fight phase doesn't seem that great when compared to the smurf characters like calgar. I am sad he lost his army wide ability to allow transport to scout in 7th edition, but that is the past. Q. how would white scar players use khan in their list now in 8th edition? Q. does his ability add +1S before a melee wargear? e.g. PF, TH, CF

Been looking for ways to maximise the FNP banner as using it for assault has been more than awkward in execution during test games. Rought draft: Mephiston Captain jump pack Lieutenant with jump pack or in pod? Company Ancient with jump pack and FNP banner (index flowchart to take the jp) 3x Inceptors 6xPlasma Exterminators 9 Sternguard, special issue boltgun Drop Pod -Mephiston: (wings, quicken, unleash rage) He goes in pod and uses wings to jump over screens. -LT: In reserve, ideally in range of both shooting units and a DoA assault units -Ancient: can start on the board to buff ground drops then redeploy to firebase or start in reserve. In addition to FNP the banner gives (on a 4+) a shooting or close combat attack when you die -Inceptors Alot of good stuff to say about these: * An avg. of 12 plasma shots for around 170 points * They have the fly and jump pack keyword (can leave combat and shoot + use redeploy later in the game) * T5 2 wounds has great synergi with fnp * Effective range of 18" makes it easier to shoot past screens -Stenguard: They have been proven really strong with the SM codex. Lots of str4 -2 shots with +1 to wound is great on anything from conscripts to veichles/monsters and we are already bringing a pod for Meph. This clocks in to about 800-900 points depending on character wargear. We would want some scouts to secure a landing site and a couple of assault units in reserves. Not sure on the last 6-700ish points. Thoughts?