Lets engage in some fun speculation

[dtse]

Rest were just leaked.

 

iron hands get 6+ ward save (FNP)

Imperial Fists get reroll wounds against buildings and ignores cover

Salamanders get reroll one hit and wound roll per unit each time that unit shoots or fights

Black Templars are rerolling all charges

[Berzul]

I think that the Imperial Fists and the Black Templars are probably among the best in the codex, there. Salamanders, if I read it right, means ONE dice gets rerolled for the entire unit... That can be pretty good, specially in units like devastators, but still feels a bit underwhelming.

[Hoots]

+2 to wound against cypher

lol please NOOO

 

I hope that it won't be something situational like +1 hit against keyword Chaos or Fallen or something...

 

I can see it being this though. GW is determined that I only play chaos

 

Maybe something to improve our plasma ability? I't not like you can expect a company master to be standing next to the boys at ever battle.  Some kind of jink that doesnt require you to advance? 

 

But I'd prefer a better overwatch

 

Hoots

[dtse]

I think that the Imperial Fists and the Black Templars are probably among the best in the codex, there. Salamanders, if I read it right, means ONE dice gets rerolled for the entire unit... That can be pretty good, specially in units like devastators, but still feels a bit underwhelming.

 

er, how so? ignoring cover is not a huge deal this edition due to lack of cover for most things, and the fact that AP removes cover effectively anyway.  And black templars rerolling charges? big deal. 

 

salamanders reroll is ok, but considering most have a character that gives rerolls, and you cant reroll a dice more than once, its not a HUGE deal, and certainly lacks the flavour that their old rule had regarding melta and flamers.  Ravenguard and ultramarines are best I think

[shabbadoo]

Well, I previously posted...

 

It wouldn't surprise me if we see Ravenwing and/or White Scars gain the the ability to disengage and still Shoot and/or Assault.

 

And so I was partially correct in what GW they would do. White Scars get a bonus 2" move, and they get the ability to Charge after Falling Back.

 

Ravenwing will probably just retain Jink, which of course guts our shooting by keeping us from being able to firing anything but flamers from our bikes, and we can't charge after Advancing either. Sure would be nice to have rules that are a benefit without restricting the functionality of our units. And so the Ravenwing's special ability will be that they are the most awesomely evasive non-threatening (excepting bikers with flamers!) shooting gallery targets in the game! W. T. F.

 

The Unforgiven rule is such a non-factor, as Space Marine units with a Vet. Sgt. of Ld 9 are already so unlikely to fail a morale test that it is laughable, and characters and Terminators more so still. I don't think it is too much to ask to have rules that have a real effect most of the time LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S RULES DO.

 

Seriously. They are doing this on purpose, right?

 

So, I am not optimistic. Nothing will likely be done for us.  Let me rephrase that. Nothing will likely be done *for* us, but I think it is very likely something will continue to be done *to* us. Not like we aren't used to that already though.

 

And I was in such a good mood when I started to post this reply, but then I started to think about things a bit.

 

EDIT: Hopefully I have some rules wrong (or are forgetting some) that make me think things are as bad as they seem, and one of you lot will correct/enlighten me.  It is a dream I have.

Edited July 23, 2017 by shabbadoo

[Helycon]

 

I think that the Imperial Fists and the Black Templars are probably among the best in the codex, there. Salamanders, if I read it right, means ONE dice gets rerolled for the entire unit... That can be pretty good, specially in units like devastators, but still feels a bit underwhelming.

 

er, how so? ignoring cover is not a huge deal this edition due to lack of cover for most things, and the fact that AP removes cover effectively anyway.  And black templars rerolling charges? big deal. 

 

salamanders reroll is ok, but considering most have a character that gives rerolls, and you cant reroll a dice more than once, its not a HUGE deal, and certainly lacks the flavour that their old rule had regarding melta and flamers.  Ravenguard and ultramarines are best I think

 

The Salamanders CT is major. It effectively gives you 2 CP's for every unit, or 4 if the unit charges and fights as well. It frees up CP's for other stratagems, such as rerolling other dice, interrupting combat sequences so your dread can smack that Hive Tyrant it's locked in combat with before it can kill the dread, and we haven't seen their other stratagem yet, so it might be worthwile to use that in stead of using CP rerolls.

 

We'll have to wait and see what we get when our codex gets released. Still, these CT's get me hyped for what DA's may receive.

[Berzul]

 

I think that the Imperial Fists and the Black Templars are probably among the best in the codex, there. Salamanders, if I read it right, means ONE dice gets rerolled for the entire unit... That can be pretty good, specially in units like devastators, but still feels a bit underwhelming.

 

er, how so? ignoring cover is not a huge deal this edition due to lack of cover for most things, and the fact that AP removes cover effectively anyway.  And black templars rerolling charges? big deal. 

 

salamanders reroll is ok, but considering most have a character that gives rerolls, and you cant reroll a dice more than once, its not a HUGE deal, and certainly lacks the flavour that their old rule had regarding melta and flamers.  Ravenguard and ultramarines are best I think

 

 

I should clarify (since I didn't mention it), that I did not consider the Ultramarines, Whitescars, or Raven Guards tactics, as they had already been discussed.

 

And between those (salamandes, imperial fists, black templars, iron hands) I think those are the best.

[BlackTriton]

In a optimistic light, I expect (read hope) a few things from the CODEX: UNFORGIVEN

First is a stratagem to allow a deathwing unit to teleport within 3'' of any ravenwing unit, but not within 1'' of any enemy unit.

I expect the "tactics" of the DA to be about their "grim resolve" or "unyielding will", which could be translated in a few way;

a bonus to Overwatch, like in 7ed,

a rule similar to "unyielding ancient" that allow to ignore wounds in certain circumstances,

Or even a rule similar to that of the SmurfMarine, that allow to fire all weapon in the shooting phase, even when within 1'' of an enemy unit (but not at that enemy) albeit at a -1 to hit. for exemple.

I also expect tactics for sub chapter of the unforgiven, Like the disciple of Caliban or the guardian of the covenant, with rules similar to the chapter we have already seen, or something like "with a singular purpose: bonus X when targeting a unit that has been selected as a target by another unit previously in the same shooting phase"

 

How would you represent the grim resolve of our chapter? 

[dtse]

5+ BS on overwatch. Why reinvent the wheel lol

[Frater Cornelius]

5+ BS on overwatch. Why reinvent the wheel lol

That is so situationl, it hurts... Though I suppose UM is also situational, but you can influence it by charging with your own units, then flee and shoot. Overwatch is wasted against half of the existing armies. No bonus we have seen thus far depends on the actions of your enemy (not entirely) and can be influenced by you.

 

I dunno, things are rarely as they are expected, especially if ones opinion is clouded by negativity. And if it turns out bad, just use SM rules instead for competitive play and enjoy being the underdog in all other games.

[SnakeChisler]

Plasma discipline for 2cp's allows overheat no penalty

[G8Keeper]

The way it's going we will get a "chapter tactics" that can be enhanced by strategems which will in turn bring more efficiency to RW and DW (I hope), I just can't think of any examples haha!  I also wouldn't mind seeing teleport homers as an upgrade for RW squads, maybe just the sergeant and make them one use for 5pts?

[Frater Cornelius]

The issue I see with DW and RW Stratagems is that pure Primaris armies would be shafted. Well, unless there are some crossovers between old and new Marines and DW/RW.

[sneakybamsen]

The issue I see with DW and RW Stratagems is that pure Primaris armies would be shafted. Well, unless there are some crossovers between old and new Marines and DW/RW.

 

That is true. So unless GW realizes that DA purists will NEVER buy primaris marines, as strangers are not an option in the first legion, it's unlikely that our tactics will be specific for 1st/2nd company. Also I play 3rd company way more than 1st/2nd, so I don't want a chapter tactic equivalent that I'll never get to use :)

[G8Keeper]

I think it's perfectly logical to have strategems enhancing just DW/RW.  As long as they include something in there for "the rest" which would include Primaris. Chapter Tactics should be more generalised and affect ALL units of the specified types (Infantry, Bikes and Dreads if i'm not mistaken)?

[Bother Cypher]

I would like to see something that motivates us to bring all three wings together into a cohesive and respectable army build. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Turbosnake95

[Aggramor]

Hey everyone,

 

What do you think about our chapter tactic, what is going to be?

 

Do you think our grim resolve rule from 7th edition will return as chapter tactic or it will be completely new mechanic?

[BlackTriton]

See the ''lets engage in some fun speculation'' tread for this topic ;)

[Aggramor]

Thank you, i didn't notice there is already one. :)

[BlackTriton]

I do hope to see an "active" tactics rather than the "passive" bonus to overwatch.

In light of the Ravenguard stratagem, allowing them to "deepstike" any unit at the cost of CP, it look like a similar stratagem allowing deathwing to disregard the 9'' limitation if a ravenwing biker is near that much more likely.

[Frater Cornelius]

Maybe a Stratagem like +1 hit in Overwatch per CP in invested, to maximum of your natural to bit roll.

[Berzul]

Maybe a Stratagem like +1 hit in Overwatch per CP in invested, to maximum of your natural to bit roll.

 

That would be way to costly, I think.

 

Maybe a 5+ overwatch, paired with a Stratagem. Like, did you guys see the stratagem for the first Fate of Konor campaign mission? For 2 CP you rerroll failed shots in overwatch, and for each wound dealt, you reduce the opponents charge by 1. Ideas like that sound good to me.

[HandofAnubis]

Plasma discipline for 2cp's allows overheat no penalty

 

^ This should be a warlord trait

[dtse]

So codex SM troops get obsec again. There's 3 pages of stratagems which don't seem super powerful. And any character can take a relic. Relics seem lacklustre. No points changes. New primaris tank is beast. New dreadnought is meh

[Syphid]

Relics now replace a specific weapon, and seem to be the same relics from the last edition. So for example, Monster Slayer of Caliban would replace a power sword. If that's the case then unless the Mace of Redemption can replace a Crozius Arcanum there are going to be a lot of Interrogator Chaplain models out there that are going to need Weapon swaps...