Chapter Focus: Salamanders

[Minsc]

My first impression is "meh" as well. It's a good CT, no doubt about it, but it's neither what I was hoping for nor what I believed we would get.

It just feels boring and unimaginative.

 

Here's hoping we get a stratagem and/or a relic that somehow synergises with Flamers. I love my flamers, it's one of the reasons I started playing Salamanders (that and their fluff), but currently we are no better at using them than other chapters - we're even worse than some! (UM, who can fall back and then use them without penalty, and IF, who get's ignores cover on their flamers.) 

 

Oh well, our Flamers may be naff, but at least out multimeltas and combimeltas look like solid picks now, and are still fluffy choices. 

GW giveth and GW taketh away.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Minsc

[Zectz]

So, just trying to wrap my head around all the possible examples because it simply says "when it shoots or fights", without denoting phase or singular use...

 

My Turn.

 

5 Man Tac Squad -

 

Shoots - Missed a shot REROLL.

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

Charge Successfully.

 

Swing - Missed a swing - REROLL

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

Wipe target Out. Turn Ends.

 

Opponents Charge that unit.

 

Overwatch - Missed a shot - REROLL

Overwatch - Missed a wound - REROLL

 

They're in melee, we have a guy survive.

 

Swing - Missed a swing - REROLL

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

 

So, from the start of my turn, to the start of my next turn, a single unit (in this example) was able to get the equivalent of 8CP's worth of rerolls for free?

 

Crazytown.

This is exactly as it sounds RAW. I think the people complaining aren't seeing the full scope of this... Additionally for characters locked in combat with each other. This chapter tactic just makes Salamanders flat out better at shooting and fighting - and at 0 points cost. Edited July 18, 2017 by Zectz

[Perry]

I always found the best bits of a squad were its special/ heavy/ sgt weapons.

 

This CT doubles your chance of doing something with the best bit of your squad every phase!

 

Thunderhammer and Plasma pistol on every sgt please, this guy will make his points back!

[Custodian Athiair]

 

So, just trying to wrap my head around all the possible examples because it simply says "when it shoots or fights", without denoting phase or singular use...

 

My Turn.

 

5 Man Tac Squad -

 

Shoots - Missed a shot REROLL.

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

Charge Successfully.

 

Swing - Missed a swing - REROLL

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

Wipe target Out. Turn Ends.

 

Opponents Charge that unit.

 

Overwatch - Missed a shot - REROLL

Overwatch - Missed a wound - REROLL

 

They're in melee, we have a guy survive.

 

Swing - Missed a swing - REROLL

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

 

So, from the start of my turn, to the start of my next turn, a single unit (in this example) was able to get the equivalent of 8CP's worth of rerolls for free?

 

Crazytown.

This is exactly as it sounds RAW. I think the people complaining aren't seeing the full scope of this... Additionally for characters locked in combat with each other. This chapter tactic just makes Salamanders flat out better at shooting and fighting - and at 0 points cost.

 

 

I think you're misunderstanding people's "complaints". People are seeing just how effective it can be, but the problem is that it doesn't feel like Salamanders. It just feels like a very nice buff.

 

The Ultramarines get something which plays into their tactics of withdraw, and redistribute force to make sure you've got a rock to beat the oppositions scissors

The Raven Guard get to hide in shadows out of sight before they launch assaults

The White Scars get to hit you hard, then withdraw before taking too many casualties, before smashing back into you from a new angle

 

All of these fit the background for the chapters. The Salamanders have been - lazily - given good weapons, this doesn't define how the chapter fights, it just tells us what the Salamanders get up to when not fighting. Sallies don't fight like an army hoping better equipment wins the day, they fight with flamer and hammer, advancing like deamons of the abyss towards the enemy and staring them face to face. 

 

Granted I haven't yet proposed something that would have provided this style of game play, but I've joked with a mate to give me the approximate amount of time that GW have been working on this thing (12 months we assumed) to come up with something more fitting.

[Spanish_Muffin]

 

 

So, just trying to wrap my head around all the possible examples because it simply says "when it shoots or fights", without denoting phase or singular use...

 

My Turn.

 

5 Man Tac Squad -

 

Shoots - Missed a shot REROLL.

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

Charge Successfully.

 

Swing - Missed a swing - REROLL

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

Wipe target Out. Turn Ends.

 

Opponents Charge that unit.

 

Overwatch - Missed a shot - REROLL

Overwatch - Missed a wound - REROLL

 

They're in melee, we have a guy survive.

 

Swing - Missed a swing - REROLL

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

 

So, from the start of my turn, to the start of my next turn, a single unit (in this example) was able to get the equivalent of 8CP's worth of rerolls for free?

 

Crazytown.

This is exactly as it sounds RAW. I think the people complaining aren't seeing the full scope of this... Additionally for characters locked in combat with each other. This chapter tactic just makes Salamanders flat out better at shooting and fighting - and at 0 points cost.

 

 

I think you're misunderstanding people's "complaints". People are seeing just how effective it can be, but the problem is that it doesn't feel like Salamanders. It just feels like a very nice buff.

 

The Ultramarines get something which plays into their tactics of withdraw, and redistribute force to make sure you've got a rock to beat the oppositions scissors

The Raven Guard get to hide in shadows out of sight before they launch assaults

The White Scars get to hit you hard, then withdraw before taking too many casualties, before smashing back into you from a new angle

 

All of these fit the background for the chapters. The Salamanders have been - lazily - given good weapons, this doesn't define how the chapter fights, it just tells us what the Salamanders get up to when not fighting. Sallies don't fight like an army hoping better equipment wins the day, they fight with flamer and hammer, advancing like deamons of the abyss towards the enemy and staring them face to face. 

 

Granted I haven't yet proposed something that would have provided this style of game play, but I've joked with a mate to give me the approximate amount of time that GW have been working on this thing (12 months we assumed) to come up with something more fitting.

 

Honestly, as fantastic as I think the current version is for "on the tabletop", if I were to make a fluffier Salamanders version I would have proposed something like "Salamanders add 2" to any flame weapon" (which ensures you get to burn out those 9.0001" deepstrikers from assaulting you.) or "reroll any dice from a FLAMER weapon when determine hits"

[Biscuittzz]

I'll chime in and say I would have liked to see something to do with their propensity for close-range fire fights, not flame or weapon related. Something to do with their character/ psyche. 

 

Fluff says that Sallies are incredibly self-reliant and valiant. So something like leadership bonuses when charged/ outnumbered in a melee maybe? Leadership bonuses when below a certain number?

 

I dislike the reliance on flamer weapons for GW to make Salllies stand out. Would be the equivalent of having Raven Guard CT's buff lightning claws imo. Iconic for both chapters yes, but not showing how they fight.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

They aren't born valiant.....they steal it.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

 

So, just trying to wrap my head around all the possible examples because it simply says "when it shoots or fights", without denoting phase or singular use...

 

My Turn.

 

5 Man Tac Squad -

 

Shoots - Missed a shot REROLL.

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

Charge Successfully.

 

Swing - Missed a swing - REROLL

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

Wipe target Out. Turn Ends.

 

Opponents Charge that unit.

 

Overwatch - Missed a shot - REROLL

Overwatch - Missed a wound - REROLL

 

They're in melee, we have a guy survive.

 

Swing - Missed a swing - REROLL

Wound - Failed to wound - REROLL

 

 

So, from the start of my turn, to the start of my next turn, a single unit (in this example) was able to get the equivalent of 8CP's worth of rerolls for free?

 

Crazytown.

This is exactly as it sounds RAW. I think the people complaining aren't seeing the full scope of this... Additionally for characters locked in combat with each other. This chapter tactic just makes Salamanders flat out better at shooting and fighting - and at 0 points cost.

...except you still need to invest in expensive wargear to maximise it. A standard tactical squad from any other chapter fully benefits but only one roll of ours benefits.

 

I still think your tac squad being harder to hit or falling back and ALL shooting is flat out better than ONE thing hitting and wounding. At best, our tactic kills an extra dude. A rapid fire bolter squad will kill more and can get captain rerolls, a RG squad can withstand more fire...its just more situational.

 

Its shoe horning you into MSU and high strength weapons....

 

That said I am gonna enjoy using it. Its fluffy and I was already planning to take lasrazorbacks, multimelta sternguard and the named characters so thats 3 rerolls doing a hecking lot of damage potential for free.

Edited July 18, 2017 by God-Potato of Mankind

[Jagus Kumkani]

This sounds very mediocre for the Salamanders. Yes, this is dangerously beneficial in the grand scheme of the game (shooting, fighting, etc.). This doesn't sound like the tactics of the Salamanders at all. Yes, they make beautifully crafted weapons and the such, but the Salamanders are tenacious, never die, close-quarters fighters.

What would be more appropriate would be something like

*Salamanders Characters can upgrade one CC weapon and one ranged weapon for free.* Que the combi-meltas and power weapons!

*Salamanders flamers get an extra 2" firing distance*

*Salamanders in close combat gain an additional attack*

*When combat is lost Salamanders units automatically pass morale phase*

 

To me this sounds more Salamanders.

[Zectz]

...except you still need to invest in expensive wargear to maximise it. A standard tactical squad from any other chapter fully benefits but only one roll of ours benefits.

 

--

 

I still think your tac squad being harder to hit or falling back and ALL shooting is flat out better than ONE thing hitting and wounding. At best, our tactic kills an extra dude. A rapid fire bolter squad will kill more and can get captain rerolls, a RG squad can withstand more fire...its just more situational.

Where do I even begin. Just like everyone else. What, do you think UM & RG are running around with no special/power weapons? You think their tacticals and assault squads are bare bones with bolters or chainswords? Get real...

 

 

Regarding your 2nd comment, this is simply not true it depends on what you are shooting at. That one overcharged Plasma or one lascannon or one meltagun makes the difference between a dead monster/flyer/vehicle and an alive one. It's exactly situational as you said, those UM & RG tactics won't be relevant against all armies, whereas Salamander rerolls will be. So to dismiss Sallie tactics as worse is short sighted.

 

Your logic is off as well when you made a case before about points invested in special weapons and now you are now adding in 74 point captains to reroll 1's on bolters. Also the Salamnader reroll gains value in situations were negative modifiers are added. Moving with heavy weapons, shooting vs flyers, fighting with a power fist.

 

"At best our tactic kills an extra dude." What? Are you serious? By dude, you should mean Carnifex, Ritpide, Night Scythe, Chimera etc. If all you think this does is kill an extra 1 wound infantry model then good luck to you.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Zectz

[Irbis]

...except you still need to invest in expensive wargear to maximise it. A standard tactical squad from any other chapter fully benefits but only one roll of ours benefits.

Um, no. That is wrong on both counts. One, this tactic makes some of very good, cheap, but unreliable stuff excellent. Take humble power sword or grav gun - excellent ap, but low S making wounding with it a lottery. Not anymore! Ditto for force swords on librarians, overcharged plasma, pistols, all these things are straight up better than on everyone else.

 

As for other chapters benefiting, I saw that claim several times and it makes no sense. Raven Guard are pigeon-holed into being a gunline, since their melee units get zero bonus from chapter tactic. Enemy deep strikes? Enjoy no tactics whatsoever! Ultramarines can't fall back if they are dead, and SM in general have no unit that would make full use of that tactic. Really, other SM have good bonuses but highly situational ones working for a fraction of their units. It seems to me people latched to best cases of their tactic and can't appreciate much more solid one working on everything, always...

 

I still think your tac squad being harder to hit or falling back and ALL shooting is flat out better than ONE thing hitting and wounding. At best, our tactic kills an extra dude. A rapid fire bolter squad will kill more and can get captain rerolls, a RG squad can withstand more fire...its just more situational.

 

Except A) that dud can be 60 pts termie or meganob, or hell, with melta usage even a 250 pts land raider or hive tyrant, and B ) what exactly stops you from giving captain to Sallies too and rerolling not just 1s but that rare 2? Never mind that the fact you DON'T need that captain means it's 2 units fighting against 1 + captain...

 

Its shoe horning you into MSU and high strength weapons....

 

See above, it really shines on cheap, low S gear with good AP and damage. As for being good for MSU, you realize SM want to MSU anyway and that if anything makes Sally tactic better?

 

What would be more appropriate would be something like

*Salamanders Characters can upgrade one CC weapon and one ranged weapon for free.* Que the combi-meltas and power weapons!

 

Congrats. You just made Sallies useless in power level play / made people refuse to play them due to free points from 7th stigma. Not unfounded I might add, with insane points costs of some gear you can easily double the points of your MSU spam. How excatly is that balanced to you?

 

*Salamanders flamers get an extra 2" firing distance*

 

That would be hilariously broken seeing it would allow deep strike flaming, something GW tried very hard to block. Again, how is that balanced?

 

*Salamanders in close combat gain an additional attack*

 

This has zero support in fluff, and is also what Sally tactic does without making units with multiple high strenght weapons (say termies) broken. Again, not balanced.

 

*When combat is lost Salamanders units automatically pass morale phase*

 

Forgot already how exactly this mechanic was so despised and kinda broken in 7th?

Edited July 18, 2017 by Irbis

[Custodian Athiair]

I'll chime in and say I would have liked to see something to do with their propensity for close-range fire fights, not flame or weapon related. Something to do with their character/ psyche. 

 

Fluff says that Sallies are incredibly self-reliant and valiant. So something like leadership bonuses when charged/ outnumbered in a melee maybe? Leadership bonuses when below a certain number?

 

I dislike the reliance on flamer weapons for GW to make Salllies stand out. Would be the equivalent of having Raven Guard CT's buff lightning claws imo. Iconic for both chapters yes, but not showing how they fight.

 

This is what I was hoping for from our Chapter tactic tbh.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

In response to all the comments about strength of the tactic compared to others, I think those arguing situational vs non have a point. Also the point about RG becoming gunline again valid point, it has the possbility, but it also allows the possibility for them to get CC units into melee safer - which I believe is GW's intention - but yes the gunline commentary still stands.

 

In regard to 9'' flamers, guys please lets keep this realisitic, flamers were put at 7'' for the reason to nullify deep strike savagery. 

 

Additionally lets not start bickering about how we interpret the rule, at the minute this is becoming a bit of a shouting match between opinions rather than reasoned discussion.

[Jagus Kumkani]

 

...except you still need to invest in expensive wargear to maximise it. A standard tactical squad from any other chapter fully benefits but only one roll of ours benefits.

Um, no. That is wrong on both counts. One, this tactic makes some of very good, cheap, but unreliable stuff excellent. Take humble power sword or grav gun - excellent ap, but low S making wounding with it a lottery. Not anymore! Ditto for force swords on librarians, overcharged plasma, pistols, all these things are straight up better than on everyone else.

 

As for other chapters benefiting, I saw that claim several times and it makes no sense. Raven Guard are pigeon-holed into being a gunline, since their melee units get zero bonus from chapter tactic. Enemy deep strikes? Enjoy no tactics whatsoever! Ultramarines can't fall back if they are dead, and SM in general have no unit that would make full use of that tactic. Really, other SM have good bonuses but highly situational ones working for a fraction of their units. It seems to me people latched to best cases of their tactic and can't appreciate much more solid one working on everything, always...

 

I still think your tac squad being harder to hit or falling back and ALL shooting is flat out better than ONE thing hitting and wounding. At best, our tactic kills an extra dude. A rapid fire bolter squad will kill more and can get captain rerolls, a RG squad can withstand more fire...its just more situational.

 

Except A) that dud can be 60 pts termie or meganob, or hell, with melta usage even a 250 pts land raider or hive tyrant, and B ) what exactly stops you from giving captain to Sallies too and rerolling not just 1s but that rare 2? Never mind that the fact you DON'T need that captain means it's 2 units fighting against 1 + captain...

 

Its shoe horning you into MSU and high strength weapons....

 

See above, it really shines on cheap, low S gear with good AP and damage. As for being good for MSU, you realize SM want to MSU anyway and that if anything makes Sally tactic better?

 

What would be more appropriate would be something like

*Salamanders Characters can upgrade one CC weapon and one ranged weapon for free.* Que the combi-meltas and power weapons!

 

Congrats. You just made Sallies useless in power level play / made people refuse to play them due to free points from 7th stigma. Not unfounded I might add, with insane points costs of some gear you can easily double the points of your MSU spam. How excatly is that balanced to you?

 

*Salamanders flamers get an extra 2" firing distance*

 

That would be hilariously broken seeing it would allow deep strike flaming, something GW tried very hard to block. Again, how is that balanced?

 

*Salamanders in close combat gain an additional attack*

 

This has zero support in fluff, and is also what Sally tactic does without making units with multiple high strenght weapons (say termies) broken. Again, not balanced.

 

*When combat is lost Salamanders units automatically pass morale phase*

 

Forgot already how exactly this mechanic was so despised and kinda broken in 7th?

 

These were merely suggestions to the issue facing Salamanders. Maybe others can compound on this.

The WS and RG, UM, IF, even the IH have pretty good chapter tactics befitting their fluff.

Every homebrew chapter around will be using the Salamanders chapter tactics because its just plain unexceptional in my opinion.

[CaptainMarsh]

I can see why some people may not consider this a very fluffy rule. I love it a lot because of its utility, but I know it ain't fluffy.

[highwind]

Bray'arth Ashmantle with this rule = win

[highwind]

@Andres Pacheco

 

I'm sure there will be synergy and nice combos to be exploited. But I'm mainly getting on that we haven't been given a chapter "tactic" (would italicise, but mobile).

 

This rule doesn't let me play like the Salamanders would engage in warfare, it's just a nice bonus. Okay very nice when you think about game impact.

 

But what this rule does is allow gunline to be more damaging, and combats to be more bloody.

So Devestators and Assault Marines...

 

But Salamanders main thing (in my opinion) is Tactical Marines bringing burning retribution to the enemy up close.

 

 

 

I dunno, I'm not in the majority it seems, and that's fine if people like it great! Just to me it feels like minimal effort has gone in, and it's not encouraging me to play like the Sallies should. Unlike Scars or RG

 

Well, Im not a Salamanders player myself but when I read all the chapter rules today my first thought was "hey, thats quite fluffy for Salamanders with those single Melta / Multimelta in a tactical squad" and just later I realizied that the rule itself is quite strong because it is 1 hit and 1 wound for every damn squad in every damn round.

 

I think the Imperial Fists chapter rule is far worse regarding fluff because those guys arent siege breakers (thats what Iron Warriors are), they are siege builders... something like "+1 to armor saves while being in cover" or "-1 to enemy hit roles while being in cover" would have been so much better, both in terms of fluff and fair balancing.

[Custodian Athiair]

 

@Andres Pacheco

 

I'm sure there will be synergy and nice combos to be exploited. But I'm mainly getting on that we haven't been given a chapter "tactic" (would italicise, but mobile).

 

This rule doesn't let me play like the Salamanders would engage in warfare, it's just a nice bonus. Okay very nice when you think about game impact.

 

But what this rule does is allow gunline to be more damaging, and combats to be more bloody.

So Devestators and Assault Marines...

 

But Salamanders main thing (in my opinion) is Tactical Marines bringing burning retribution to the enemy up close.

 

 

 

I dunno, I'm not in the majority it seems, and that's fine if people like it great! Just to me it feels like minimal effort has gone in, and it's not encouraging me to play like the Sallies should. Unlike Scars or RG

 

Well, Im not a Salamanders player myself but when I read all the chapter rules today my first thought was "hey, thats quite fluffy for Salamanders with those single Melta / Multimelta in a tactical squad" and just later I realizied that the rule itself is quite strong because it is 1 hit and 1 wound for every damn squad in every damn round.

 

I think the Imperial Fists chapter rule is far worse regarding fluff because those guys arent siege breakers (thats what Iron Warriors are), they are siege builders... something like "+1 to armor saves while being in cover" or "-1 to enemy hit roles while being in cover" would have been so much better, both in terms of fluff and fair balancing.

 

 

But it is actually nothing about melta's tbh, it's just "you've made a shiny gun therefore it works slightly better", just feel more could have done, but I've made my point half a dozen times by now.

 

In response to your Fists comment, yes their's is pretty pathetic even as just a rule - highly dependant on battlefield, and the second half of it is night on irrelevant in 90% of games. But in regard to the comment of siege builders/breakers. They are both, as were the Iron Warriors. That was kind of the point, both did the same thing and so when one got chosen over the other (and praised over the other) it lead the other one down a dark path. Just look at the battle of the Iron Cage. Fists should have gotten something about never retreating - again GW got lazy there - cause if they expect CF to use IF, the one they've written them doesn't define the CF.

 

Anyway back to Salamanders. Flames, hammers and smoke and all that ;P

[Andrés Pacheco]

Bray'arth Ashmantle with this rule = win :rolleyes:

When you add the flamer stratagem on top, he'll get completely schwifty ;)

 

Does this mean attack bike spam is now a thing? And people said the rule wasn't fluffy.....

 

:D

Edited July 19, 2017 by Andrés Pacheco

[Sonoftherubric21]

How could ANYONE look at this and say (with a serious / straight face) "oh thats bad" 

Are you bloody kidding me?  A standard space marine army in 2000 may have between 8 and 10 units in a given game, more if you decide to MSU or spam certain options....and EACH of these units can claim 2 re-rolls during a shooting phase, and then 2 during a fighting phase? (I think that was the implication of the rule off memory) 

So at a glance sallies are getting......100+ re-rolls a game. HOW DOES THIS EVEN COME CLOSE TO BEING BAD?!?!? 

I get some people may need to change up their army lists; but holy heck. Missiles, Fists, Las cannons, anything with low volume quality fire just got that much better, melee attacks with important weapons got that much better, dreads confirming wounds easily on just about anything, let alone hits.  hitting high value targets easier. I mean.....that sounds pretty fan-freakin-tastic to me!  

 

This of course is discounting all that sallies get from FW and from relics/strategems/traits to go with what they have now. Sounds pretty good honestly. 

[God-Potato of Mankind]

After much brainstorming, I think I have to side with the "it is pretty awesome" camp.

 

It makes everything better so long as you take one high strength weapon per squad.

 

A lazorback with a lascannon tactical and a comversion beamer techmarine sounds juicy....

Edited July 19, 2017 by God-Potato of Mankind

[Custodian Athiair]

How could ANYONE look at this and say (with a serious / straight face) "oh thats bad"

 

Are you bloody kidding me? A standard space marine army in 2000 may have between 8 and 10 units in a given game, more if you decide to MSU or spam certain options....and EACH of these units can claim 2 re-rolls during a shooting phase, and then 2 during a fighting phase? (I think that was the implication of the rule off memory)

 

So at a glance sallies are getting......100+ re-rolls a game. HOW DOES THIS EVEN COME CLOSE TO BEING BAD?!?!?

 

I get some people may need to change up their army lists; but holy heck. Missiles, Fists, Las cannons, anything with low volume quality fire just got that much better, melee attacks with important weapons got that much better, dreads confirming wounds easily on just about anything, let alone hits. hitting high value targets easier. I mean.....that sounds pretty fan-freakin-tastic to me!

 

This of course is discounting all that sallies get from FW and from relics/strategems/traits to go with what they have now. Sounds pretty good honestly.

*Sigh*

 

Initially people felt it was poor, until applying it logically. I think everyone agrees it is a darn good rule.

 

What some people - myself included - argue is that it isn't a "tactic", it doesn't define how the Salamanders as a chapter actually engage in warfare.

 

Yes they have custom weapons, made with skill, but they don't take to the battle field and win by superior weaponry. That's never been a part of their fluff. GW just seem to have gone "oh they all make their own weapons, therefore they must be better weapons than anyone else, we'll give them that rule instead of giving them something that showcases their grim tenacity and aggressive short range fire fight tactics".

 

 

TLDR:

Rule in Game = Amazing

Representative of fighting style = Meh

Edited July 19, 2017 by Custodian Athiair

[God-Potato of Mankind]

It has been part of their fluff though, their wargear has always been masterworked. As a Chapter they have mich more potent wargear because of it. I mean it is but one of many avenues they could have taken but it is still fluffy. They take their wargear unto the anvil and it survives the fire due to their masterful artisan nature. Fluffy as heck.

 

I know I would be more comfortable being aggressively short ranged if my plasma weapon wasnt going to kill me more reliably than the enemy :|

[Charlo]

This works as a really nice rule for Iron Hands too, using all kinds of extra cool teched up weaponry :)

[Custodian Athiair]

It has been part of their fluff though, their wargear has always been masterworked. As a Chapter they have mich more potent wargear because of it. I mean it is but one of many avenues they could have taken but it is still fluffy. They take their wargear unto the anvil and it survives the fire due to their masterful artisan nature. Fluffy as heck.

 

I know I would be more comfortable being aggressively short ranged if my plasma weapon wasnt going to kill me more reliably than the enemy :|

I guess we will just have to not agree on this. Which is fine different people view things differently.

 

My opinion is that it doesn't represent the tactic/style of Salamander warfare. Just that they have more reliable/accurate weaponry. Which is Salamander in nature just not the definition of a tactic or strategy

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Relying on the blessed sanctity of the holy weapons of the Omnissiah's chosen warriors is not a good strategy?

 

Report to Servitor Conversion Hub Beta02 for mandatory re-education :p