Chapter Focus: Salamanders

[Custodian Athiair]

Anybody found anything for our relic?

 

Also anyone else kinda disappointed that Primaris don't have flame/melta weaponry. I love plasma weapons, but we all know what we really want

[Extropian]

Salamander relic is armour that gives +1 toughness.

[Custodian Athiair]

Salamander relic is armour that gives +1 toughness.

 

Thanks, not that great, but will have a look what the best relic is, seeing as we get a free one each game

[Irbis]

Also anyone else kinda disappointed that Primaris don't have flame/melta weaponry.

 

Um...

 

 

That looks like double flamer dose to me

[Extropian]

 

Salamander relic is armour that gives +1 toughness.

 

 

Thanks, not that great, but will have a look what the best relic is, seeing as we get a free one each game

Yeah, not mega exciting, but T6 Primaris Captain is fun at least :)

[Custodian Athiair]

 

 

Also anyone else kinda disappointed that Primaris don't have flame/melta weaponry.

Um...

 

 

That looks like double flamer dose to me

I meant for line infantry, but well played

[Minsc]

Our relic is pretty "meh" compared to some of the others, as is our Warlord Trait. I doubt I'll use either of them that much.

 

+1T is not bad by any means, but in 8th, +1T isn't all that.

It's best on a Gravis or Bike-Captain for that sweet T6, however as a defensive relic, I'd rate both the Shield Eternal and the Armor Indomitus* as better.
(*except for on a model that already has a 2+ armoursave of course)

 

+1S warlord trait, likewise, isn't bad, it's just really meh compared to some of the other warlord traits. If that point of strenght was added *before* doubling from a powerfist or a thunderhammer, I'd be all over it. S10 is king, while S9 is almost the same as having S8.

 

My go-to Captain will often be on a Bike, with a Thunder Hammer and The Shield Eternal, and the warlord trait that grants +1W and a 6+ FNP.

For 140 pts he's pretty expensive, but he also has 7 wounds at T5 with a 3++ and 6+ FNP, and he halves any damaged suffered. No more getting oneshot by a spiky Damage D6 attack.

Another build I'd consider would be using the Armour Indomitus on a Biker Captain. 2+/4++ with an occasional 3++ plus a 6+ FNP is more resilient towards small arms fire, and you still have one weapon left to replace with something of your choice, i.e. a combi-melta or similar.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Minsc

[Irbis]

 

I meant for line infantry, but well played

 

Isn't that infantry model too though?

[Custodian Athiair]

 

 

I meant for line infantry, but well played

Isn't that infantry model too though?

If you're going to be pendantic, I mean the standard bolter wielding squads. The Intercessors, the Inceptors etc.

 

The Primaris versions of the Tac Squad, Assault Squad etc. At the minute it is bolt or plasma.

[Andrés Pacheco]

Also anyone else kinda disappointed that Primaris don't have flame/melta weaponry. I love plasma weapons, but we all know what we really want

Yeah, it would be great to see a hellblaster squad released with Primaris melta guns. If they get a variety of melta similar to the plasma squad, like Assault 2/8"/S7, or Heavy 1/12"/S9, would be really cool.

 

For the time being though, we can be happy with the burniest Aggressors in town, and still getting some nice efficient mileage out of msu tacs and dev squads with melta up the wazoo.

[Emicus]

Late to the party but for the Emperors sake please re-read the wound chart people.

 

To wound guard on 2+ you need S6 flamers... Marines? S8.

[Extropian]

Late to the party but for the Emperors sake please re-read the wound chart people.

To wound guard on 2+ you need S6 flamers... Marines? S8.

I think I'll have to counter with:

 

For the Emperors sake please re-read the stratagem (which is the discussion).

 

It adds +1 to wound, not +1 strength.

So wound Guard on 2+ you need S4 flames, and for Marines S5.

[Custodian Athiair]

 

Late to the party but for the Emperors sake please re-read the wound chart people.

To wound guard on 2+ you need S6 flamers... Marines? S8.

I think I'll have to counter with:

 

For the Emperors sake please re-read the stratagem (which is the discussion).

 

It adds +1 to wound, not +1 strength.

So wound Guard on 2+ you need S4 flames, and for Marines S5.

Lawyered

[God-Potato of Mankind]

So casting Might of Heroes on a Gravis Captain wearing our relic gives us a S6 T6 6A monstrosity.

 

Ih deligtful stuff.

[Extropian]

T7 in fact. 5 base, 1 for relic, 1 for Might of Heroes. And then for laughs give him the +1A warlord trait....

 

S5, T7, A7.

 

Heh.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Extropian

[CCE1981]

Prefer to put the Relic on a Bike with a Thunder Hammer for a much larger threat radius and huge strength.  Remember as a Captain already re-rolling all ones, plus Salamanders so you get to re-roll one 2.

[Minsc]

I'm probably gonna sound like a negative nancy, but the more I think about it, the more I think we got one of the shorter (although not the shortest) ends of the stick in this Codex.

 

Our Chapter Tactic is very good. I've played 3 games so far with the new codex rules, and I can say that our CT more or less won me the game in two of those games. It's that good, and it comes into effect, alot, especially if you like me can't roll dice to save your life.

However, all our other chapter specific "things", I rate "Meh..."

Our Warlord Trait isn't bad, but it's still one of the worst in the codex.
I'm quite gutted that Vulkan must take this if he's the Warlord, since this means that Vulkan will probably never be my Warlord in 8th.

In a edition where high strenght isn't that important, where even Strenght is king, and where strenght is doubled before modifiers, that +1 Strenght is useless most of the time:
A Fist/Hammer becomes S9 instead of S8. Effective against T8, no effect against anything else.

A Relicblade (And Vulkans spear) becomes S7 instead of S6. Effective against T6 and T7, no effect against anything else.
If it was added before the strenght was doubled, so we had S10 Hammers/Fists, I'd consider it, but now? No. There are other trait's that are both better and more fun.

Our Relic isn't bad either, but +1T isn't all that in 8th Ed. It has some nice combo's on bikes on gravis armours for that pretty solid T6, but it's still a defensive relic. 
If you want a defensive relic, both The Shield Eternal and the Armour Indomitus* will probably serve you better. (*Unless you already have a 2+/3++ of course.)
I can't see myself putting Salamanders Mantle on something that's T5; there's just so many other better and more fun relics to choose from.

Our chapter-specific Stratagem then? I'm gonna get flamed for this ( ), but Flamecraft sounds alot better than it is most of the time:
With 1 Flamer, shooting against T4, you'll go from 1,75 wounds average to 2,33 wounds average (before saves.)
With 2 Flamers, shooting against T4, you'll go from 3,5 wounds average to 4,67 wounds average (before saves).
Hardly seems worth 1 CP does it?
The only time I'd consider spending 1 CP on Flamecraft is if I'm flaming something I really need to kill, or if I'm using it in a situation where I'd go from 6+ to 5+ to wound.
It's pretty good on a Command Squad full of Flamers, or a squad of Aggressors with Flamestorm Gauntlets, but for the regular Tactic Flamer+Combiflamer it's more often than not a wasted CP.

 

Flamecraft also has almost no synergy with our Chapter Tactic, unlike the Hellfire(?) Stratagem which is much more suited for us Salamanders. It also costs 1 CP, but that's essentially an automatic D3 mortal wounds on something, because unlike Flamecraft, our Master Artisans-CT has some great synergy with the Hellfire Stratagem: Most chapters have a 66% chance, we have a 88% chance.

With all that negativity aside, I'm having great fun with my Salamanders now, and they're off the shelf for the first time in probably over a year. I've already had more games with them in 8th than I had with them in 7th. (That 7th Ed. Codex was a bigger waste of money than the 8th Ed. Index was. )
 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Minsc

[God-Potato of Mankind]

So I can wound Land Raiders on a 2+ and then t6 vehicles (which there are a lot of, at least I've encountered playing Crons alot) on a 2+? Sounds like a good deal to me. 

 

Flamecraft is only worth it on dedicated flamer units, I wouldnt ever waste a CP on a tactical squad. Besides, why on earth would you take a combiflamer/flamer tactical over a heavy weapon? Now we have MA a missile launcher, multi-melta or lascannon would work wonders. 

 

I plan to use it to boost my anti-conscript activities and such. Turning flamers to wound on 2s against the horde will clear em out so much easier. Your math backs it up no? You're adding a single wound per flamer. That's 5 extra dead conscripts per volley from my Sternguard! 25% extra casualties on a blob of 20! How is that not great?

 

Edit: I derped, I meant wounding raiders on a 3+ and t6 on a 3+ 

Edited July 24, 2017 by God-Potato of Mankind

[Extropian]

Wait...how are we wounding Land Raiders on a 2+ now?!

[Minsc]

So I can wound Land Raiders on a 2+ and then t6 vehicles (which there are a lot of, at least I've encountered playing Crons alot) on a 2+? Sounds like a good deal to me. 

 

Flamecraft is only worth it on dedicated flamer units, I wouldnt ever waste a CP on a tactical squad. Besides, why on earth would you take a combiflamer/flamer tactical over a heavy weapon? Now we have MA a missile launcher, multi-melta or lascannon would work wonders. 

 

I plan to use it to boost my anti-conscript activities and such. Turning flamers to wound on 2s against the horde will clear em out so much easier. Your math backs it up no? You're adding a single wound per flamer. That's 5 extra dead conscripts per volley from my Sternguard! 25% extra casualties on a blob of 20! How is that not great? 

How do you wound Land Raiders or T6 on 2+?

 

Yes taking a single heavy weapon on a 5man tactical squad is probably the most efficient, but (imo) not that fun to field alot of and it feels unfluffy.

I like having MSU tacticals with a special weapon and a combi-weapon of the same type (especially flamers and meltas) running around being a nuisance. A Multimelta that moves has a 75% chance to hit with MA though, not too shabby.

 

Can't tell if you're being ironic at the end or not. I wouldn't consider 5 dead conscripts (15 points) a good use of a CP. 

[Andrés Pacheco]

I think the latest faq made hammers/fists S10 for S4+1 models.

[Extropian]

Flamecraft really comes into its own with Vulkan nearby, on a unit like all flame Sternguard, Aggressors or Assault Centurions.

 

5 Aggressors with Flamecraft and Vulkan averages 31 wounds against t4. That's not too shabby....pretty much delete a Marine squad.

Double it if they don't have to move, but I won't count on that ever happening personally.

 

Is that worth it? Maybe. It's only 210 point for those 5 Aggressors, and they are almost immune to charges from 8" or less (seriously, nobody will be charging GTA and living). But they will die to shooting pretty easy, so you have to make it count.

 

The difficulty is delivery. Vulkan can't go in a Repulsor, and Aggressors can't go in a Land Raider. Sigh.

I think the latest faq made hammers/fists S10 for S4+1 models.

Still doesn't wound a Raider on 2+. You need S16 for that, or a +1 to the roll from somewhere.

[Andrés Pacheco]

 

I think the latest faq made hammers/fists S10 for S4+1 models.

Still doesn't wound a Raider on 2+. You need S16 for that, or a +1 to the roll from somewhere.

Ha ha, sure - I was responding to an earlier post that the +1S was meh, but lazily didn't quote anything and paid the price :)

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I derped, I meant 3s. Going up to S9 means you wound a Landraider on 3s not 4s and S7 Relic Blades wound t6 on a 3+ too.

 

Also I wasn't being sarcastic, yeah it's only 15 points but if it gets rid of the tarpit that's blocking you from wrecking something more expensive behind them then it becomes worthwhile. I keep hearing how massed infantry is the new meta so anything that helps rid me of that is a good spend in my book.

 

Also what other CP would you use? I see a few that cause d3 mortal wounds and a few more buffbubbles but adding 1 to wound on my Sternguard heavy flamer/combiflamer squad wounding t3 on 2s seems a great use of a CP, much better potential damage than d3 mortal wounds I think...

Edited July 24, 2017 by God-Potato of Mankind

[Minsc]

I think the latest faq made hammers/fists S10 for S4+1 models.

 

Where?

I can't see it in the FAQ, and afaik the rulebook states that you (as in pretty much all editions of 40k since third) double before you add modifiers, so it's (4x2)+1 = Str 9 and not (4+1)x2 = Str 10.

 

 

Also I wasn't being sarcastic, yeah it's only 15 points but if it gets rid of the tarpit that's blocking you from wrecking something more expensive behind them then it becomes worthwhile. I keep hearing how massed infantry is the new meta so anything that helps rid me of that is a good spend in my book.

 

Also what other CP would you use? I see a few that cause d3 mortal wounds and a few more buffbubbles but adding 1 to wound on my Sternguard heavy flamer/combiflamer squad wounding t3 on 2s seems a great use of a CP, much better potential damage than d3 mortal wounds I think...

 

While I don't face Conscript-spamm in my LGS (I'm the only AM-player, and I don't even own Conscripts), I still don't think it's worth 1 CP to kill of 5 more Conscripts, unless it's very vital that they all die this round, now at once, and that you know that Flamecraft will make a difference in killing them off.

 

Most of the time I would probably much rather pick D3 Mortal Wounds on something else for that same CP, or simply save it.

 

Agree to disagree if nothing else.