Chapter Focus: Salamanders

[Custodian Athiair]

Relying on the blessed sanctity of the holy weapons of the Omnissiah's chosen warriors is not a good strategy?

 

Report to Servitor Conversion Hub Beta02 for mandatory re-education :p

 

[Jonny Roxtar]

The reroll thang is pretty much how i used to play Salamanders back when the Armageddon codex came out. The benefits back then were Sergeants could take signums which allowed a reroll for the squad. They could also take artificer armour and master crafted weapons but we cant have everything i guess. The new reroll is even better.

 

I guess what we see as fluffy could depend on when you got into salamanders. Anything after 3rd has been heavily reliant on melta and flamers and Vulcan He Stan

, 3rd was master crafted weapons and self reliance cheap terminators and a crappy initiative.

 

I like the new rules as its my old way of playing them but better, so i guess i will be making a new Sallies army is what im trying to say.

[Lysere]

I keep seeing people say Command points worth of a rerolls and it's kind of weird.

 

I mean mechanically that's what it looks like but the vast majority of the time in an actual game you wouldn't have used a command point there anyway. Since its a once per phase thing you would only use it on the most critical of rolls.

 

If anything the rerolls simply reduce the number of times you might have to consider using that re roll for a hit or wound, but those rerolls aren't really saving you many command points.

[Ishagu]

This CT is a sleeper hit imo.

Will definitely get mileage through a game.

[G8Keeper]

Full Chapter Focus up:  https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/19/chapter-focus-salamanders-july19gw-homepage-post-3/

[Andrés Pacheco]

Sooooo.......what do we think "greatly boosts" means? :D

[Custodian Athiair]

Sooooo.......what do we think "greatly boosts" means? :D

Either reroll wounds, or +1 strength. Not sure.

 

They didn't give us a lot of details compared to RG, but enticing.

 

Thoughts on warlord trait/relic adding +1 Str and +1 T?

[Ishagu]

Getting a T6 str5 Gravis Chapter Master is pretty awesome. He'll be str10 in melee if using his Fist.

Basically not far removed from a Dreadnought.

[Andrés Pacheco]

Crossing all sorts of stuff for +1 rend, but either strength or rerolls are probably more likely. +1S would be a good boost for basic flamers, wounding most infantry on a 3+ would be cool with plenty of auto-hits.

 

For the relic and Trait boost, they're both easily functional, if not a bit bland. Not played enough yet to know how survivable characters are in 8th without extras, but more survivable is always better I guess.

 

The +1S will obviously depend on the character. With the inherent buffs coming from our CT, I'm inclined to try to choose different HQs for variety. Maybe a +1S librarian might be worth a look? The Librarius Discipline is pretty melee focused, although that's no indication of what our unique list might be.

 

Definitely excited though, and had my first Primaris squee reading about the aggressors with flamestorm gauntlets, that suddenly felt all kinds of right.

[CCE1981]

I am thinking of the Chapter Master of my diy being on a bike. Str 5 toughness 6 with a Thunderhammer. Add Might if Heroes that is a Str 12 T Hammer, toughness 7 reroll 1s plus another reroll hit on 3s guy.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Hopefully Gravis Captains will get access to stormshields. Because that would be insaaaaaaane.

[CaptainMarsh]

It is a little sad that they don't go into more depth about what the strategem does. The Raven Guard and White Scars article had far more detail. In order for it to be even close to comparable to those strategems however it has to do several things, or do one thing more than expected.

It would have to be something like +2S, or +2 AP, +4 hits, or like +4 inches if it only does one thing. Don't think thats likely, so I think it will do 2/3 of the following:

+1S
+1 AP modifier
+2 Automatic hits
+2 inches

I think additional range is unlikely, so the first 2-3 are most likely.

[Andrés Pacheco]

I like your thinking, and agree that other stratagems we've seen have been arguably (maybe definitely) stronger than +1 flamers. I'd happily take +S/+rend, that would make normal flamers reasonably handy, and Ashmantle would go beast mode.

 

Maybe a reroll/roll 2 pick the highest for the number of hits, instead of +auto-hits?

[CaptainMarsh]

I like your thinking, and agree that other stratagems we've seen have been arguably (maybe definitely) stronger than +1 flamers. I'd happily take +S/+rend, that would make normal flamers reasonably handy, and Ashmantle would go beast mode.

 

Maybe a reroll/roll 2 pick the highest for the number of hits, instead of +auto-hits?

Could be. A reroll or roll 2, pick the highest to me however aren't all that great. They're not bad- but you could still roll super awful and have 1 flamer hit that you paid some CP for. An automatic +2 or something would make our worst roll close to mediocre for anyone else and our best roll be better than the rest, which fits the theme of the Salamanders being the best at burning up the bad dudes to save the good dudes.:P

[Minsc]

I too think the Stratagem will be that for all flamerweapons this shooting phase, we roll 2 dice and picks the highest.

 

Sounds awesome right?
Wrong, it's on average only 1 more hit per flamer, which isn't much to write home about, especially if it costs more than 1 CP.

[Custodian Athiair]

I am thinking of the Chapter Master of my diy being on a bike. Str 5 toughness 6 with a Thunderhammer. Add Might if Heroes that is a Str 12 T Hammer, toughness 7 reroll 1s plus another reroll hit on 3s guy.

 

Well I just figured out how to run Tu'Shan. 

 

Terminator Armour, Warlord Trait, Relic, TH/SS. Stick a Libby next to him. He'll wreck things left and right. 

[Vanger]

This article was such a tease.

 

So we know that:

- they get the re-roll chapter tactic

- +1T relic (or +1S?)

- +1S warlord trait (or +1T?)

- Flamecraft strategem that is supposed to boost the power of flamer type weapons (+1S maybe?)

- Vulkan offers further benefits to flame type weapons

- Agressors can shoot twice if they don't move

- There is such a thing as Flamestorm Gauntlet. Space marines are getting orky...

[CCE1981]

How about flamers getting 2d3 hits instead of 1d6?

[Andrés Pacheco]

 

I like your thinking, and agree that other stratagems we've seen have been arguably (maybe definitely) stronger than +1 flamers. I'd happily take +S/+rend, that would make normal flamers reasonably handy, and Ashmantle would go beast mode.

Maybe a reroll/roll 2 pick the highest for the number of hits, instead of +auto-hits?

 

Could be. A reroll or roll 2, pick the highest to me however aren't all that great. They're not bad- but you could still roll super awful and have 1 flamer hit that you paid some CP for. An automatic +2 or something would make our worst roll close to mediocre for anyone else and our best roll be better than the rest, which fits the theme of the Salamanders being the best at burning up the bad dudes to save the good dudes.:P

You're absolutely right, +auto-hits all the way. Reroll hits feels more like strapping more burny bits to your gun and hoping for the best, which doesn't quite fit the artisan vibe they've got going on.

 

Do we know if stratagems only affect units also affected by chapter tactics, or could a flamestorm redeemer potentially get this buff (whatever it is?)

Edited July 19, 2017 by Andrés Pacheco

[Minsc]

How about flamers getting 2d3 hits instead of 1d6?

 

That's even worse than rolling 2 dice and picking the highest. You'd average 4 hits instead of ~4,5.

 

I wouldn't spend a single CP on that.

[Custodian Athiair]

This article was such a tease.

 

So we know that:

- they get the re-roll chapter tactic

- +1T relic (or +1S?)

- +1S warlord trait (or +1T?)

- Flamecraft strategem that is supposed to boost the power of flamer type weapons (+1S maybe?)

- Vulkan offers further benefits to flame type weapons

- Agressors can shoot twice if they don't move

- There is such a thing as Flamestorm Gauntlet. Space marines are getting orky...

 

To be fair I think it's safe to assume that Vulkan's buff rule isn't going to change from what it is in the Index

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Well, realistically I've always viewed the sallies as taking extra time in their war gear a practice they carry into their style of combat.

 

A "slower relfex" allows them to examine and better perfect their understanding of war and learn how they may better hone it.

 

Ok, maybe you can't dodge a bullet as fast but why worry when your most basic helmet is a mastercrafted shield of sorts.

[CCE1981]

 

 

How about flamers getting 2d3 hits instead of 1d6?

That's even worse than rolling 2 dice and picking the highest. You'd average 4 hits instead of ~4,5.

 

I wouldn't spend a single CP on that.

Average on 1d6 is 3.5 with a min of 1.

2d3 is a min of 2 and an average of 4

Edited July 19, 2017 by CCE1981

[Jagus Kumkani]

Salamanders being able to use their flamers while locked in combat? everyone else gets their base CC attacks, while you're flamers get to use their normal profile in CC. Rerolling missed wounds as well.

Thoughts?

[TheReclusiarch]

I really like everything I'm hearing! Re-rolls due to great equipment is so sweet! That way, even though I'm not playing a Salamander army, I can get the Chapter Tactics without feeling I have to invest in a lot of flamer weapons - it works for every Chapter, Salamander or not. I couldn't be happier. =)