Chaos codex release date 8/5/17

[Sception]

Updated index point costs and faction rules & artifacts/stratagems in the upcoming chapter approved books would have been a better way to update index forces to keep pace with codex books, rather than the rushed, non-release codeces we're getting, if only because we already paid for rushed, 'tide you over' rules in the indeces, it's a bit obnoxious to be paying for new codeces right after that turn out to be another set of the same rather than a serious book with some actual attention from the design staff behind it.

 

I'm not complaining about the rules themselves - though there are aspects of 8e design i certainly disagree with.  It just feels a bit obnoxious is all, and for people who aren't fully aware of what's going on it can be extremely disheartening.  I've been chatting with at least one Black Legion player on tumblr who was rather crushed when they realized that there would be no new models with this books, hardly any new unit entries, that old unit entries were getting left out (for now still supported in the index, but long term who can say), etc.  Basically that we're getting charged full codex price for what is basically an 'index ++' after only having payed for the index a month or two before.

 

I don't feel the same bitterness about it - I could kind of put together from the codex announcement exactly what was going on - but I can certainly see where they're coming from.

 

 

Re: digital:  in addition to the apple book format, they also sell in an epub format - be sure you buy the right one, as they're different products at different price points.  The epub is actually an 'epub3' file, with set formatting - ie the page looks exactly like the page from the actual codex, so you'll have to awkwardly zoom and pan around on your phone to read it.  Also, epub3 is a garbage format generally and many readers either don't support it or support it poorly.  I've had good luck with 'Infinity Reader' on android - it's free with some adds but nothing too obnoxious.  On a laptop or pc you can read the files with the Readium extension for Chrome.

 

Regular epub files would be a lot easier to read, with better performance on more readers, but they don't support that anymore.

Edited August 11, 2017 by malisteen

[Commissar K.]

Absolutely, it's the newer players Im worried about aswell. I can clearly recall that two months ago I and a buddy of mine started with full fandom in 8th. When I told him about the errata and the ammount of changes he really felt like he bought something bad. While I could convince him to thake the time and read about it doing it once good instead of three times is always better. Especially if your starting with a new game.

What removed all the Warmachine/Hordes shine for me from Mk 3 (their latest edition) was the same rushjobs GW is now comming with. You buy something and what is printed on paper isn't even correct a month later.

Rushjob content is just not the type of content most people like to pay for over and over again. I bought the Codex and feel okay with it, I have the Index in digital format but Im quite certain I am not going to buy DG and TS because this conent is just not truely worth the money. The art is cool but if you have the 7th edition books your not getting anything new.

What really upsets me is that the Codex acts like the Index doesn't excist, the other smaller obnoxious thing is that the content index of the Codex just doesn't line up with the content in the book whatsoever, that's just sloppy and the type of stuff you don't even get away with on highschool. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Commissar K.

[Sception]

I like prompt and attentive errata when mistakes inevitably slip through the design process, but yeah, that shouldn't be an excuse for a rushed and sloppy design process that doesn't even allow for honest attempts to weed out such mistakes in advance.

[Aothaine]

Beware! Rant incoming!

 

Take a trip on the otherside. Release a codex, something is stupidly op, don't update it until next codex. I don't like that idea at all. You also need to remember that it won't matter how much testing they do behind closed doors because everyone plays the game differently and looks at things differently.

 

I really like what they are doing right now. Going with PDF versions of the rules is the best thing they can do. They make more money, can put more into it, and can update it when rules change very easily. Once they start putting rules changes for one book in a ton of different books or sources is when I get upset. I shouldn't need a rule book, a codex and then a third book with all the updates. It just slows the process of having a good time imho.

 

I think they should still print books. Some people like that. But you are buying the books knowing that there will be updates. We all bought the indexes knowing they would be replaced and quickly. Grumbling about it is fine but you shouldn't expect GW to change.

 

Really looking forward to reading my codex tonight! May even buy some snacks!

[Sersi]

 

 

I'm honestly not overly worried about getting Noise Marines as troops or not for now. Cultists are cheap enough to fill the troop slots and are worth taking anyway. I can wait with troop Noise Marines until we get our own Codex whenever that may happen.

 

I don't own even a single cultist. Having a lot of cultists isn't exactly fluffy for EC, what with us cooking them down to make "stimulants".  

 

 

In fact EC army are depicted with lot of Cultist like any other legion warband (for exemple in the Talon of Horus book). EC love to be adored (by cultist), love (Cultist) scream of pain/pleasure (hard to tell the difference with Slaanesh) Cultist and should love make combats drugs with Cultist fluids when under different emotions (excitement of battle, fear, pride of killing a Terminator with one lucky shoot, guilt of desserter) rather than the only I'm-scared-coz-in-some-ship-with-strange-pink-spacemarines. 

Think diversity. Don't let yourself prisonner of a single saviour. 

 

 

Bah! Maybe... I can see having some adoring hangers when they invade some pleasure cults planet. But theres plenty of fluff where we reap EVERYONE including other Legionaries for stimulation.  I like my preening debauched trans-human killers to be well...trans-human.  But I don't play tournaments so it probable isn't an issue in friendly games. Or if I fall hit my head and decide to play narrative games instead. 

[WarriorFish]

I am looking forward to getting my copy - I have a 750pts list planned for use next week that I am eagerly waiting to adjust Though perhaps the real wait is for the updated BattleScribe data so I don't have to work out my lists manually like some kind of peasant

[Arkangilos]

I don't get the "they haven't playtested it" mindset. Just because they are quick to FAQ and errata doesn't mean they haven't playtested. They could have playtested the hell out of it, playing it the way *they think the game should be played* then they release it and see all the rules lawyering, misinterpretation of the rules (which they probably thought were clear) and then they quickly release FAQ and Errata based off that.

 

They could playtested something for years and release something they thought was good, then people play it completely different because they have a totally different goal and mindset, and all that playtesting counts for less.

 

I actually like the pace of the releases.

[Panzer]

Or to make it short: No matter what you do or how long you polish something, some mistakes still remain till release. ^^

[Bat33.1]

Not specific to CSM but when 8e dropped I thought one of the aims was less bloat and a streamlined game without the need for 6 codexes/supplements to play an army, which was possible in 7e.

 

Now as the codex are starting to drop it would appear CSM will be spread across at least 3 possibly 4 books if we include daemons before we get to the possibility of CSM Khorne CSM Slaanesh. That's not quite how I expected 8e to turn out but it's early in the release cycle so I need to wait and see where this goes.

[Panzer]

Not specific to CSM but when 8e dropped I thought one of the aims was less bloat and a streamlined game without the need for 6 codexes/supplements to play an army, which was possible in 7e.

 

Now as the codex are starting to drop it would appear CSM will be spread across at least 3 possibly 4 books if we include daemons before we get to the possibility of CSM Khorne CSM Slaanesh. That's not quite how I expected 8e to turn out but it's early in the release cycle so I need to wait and see where this goes.

That's because many people didn't actually listen to what GW said.

The rules in the actual rulebook were supposed to be less bloated. Which they did. They never ever said anything about the rules in Codices getting less bloated. All they said about the Codices was that they wanted us to have all (or most) of the rules of a unit on their Datasheet so you don't have to search through 2+ books for what their special rules do.

[Sception]

Or to make it short: No matter what you do or how long you polish something, some mistakes still remain till release. ^^

Yeah, but there's a difference between timely response to inevitable post release issues and a deliberately rushed and sloppy development process leading to broken releases and obnoxious day one patches.

[Commissar K.]

Beware! Rant incoming!

 

Take a trip on the otherside. Release a codex, something is stupidly op, don't update it until next codex. I don't like that idea at all. You also need to remember that it won't matter how much testing they do behind closed doors because everyone plays the game differently and looks at things differently.

 

I really like what they are doing right now. Going with PDF versions of the rules is the best thing they can do. They make more money, can put more into it, and can update it when rules change very easily. Once they start putting rules changes for one book in a ton of different books or sources is when I get upset. I shouldn't need a rule book, a codex and then a third book with all the updates. It just slows the process of having a good time imho.

 

I think they should still print books. Some people like that. But you are buying the books knowing that there will be updates. We all bought the indexes knowing they would be replaced and quickly. Grumbling about it is fine but you shouldn't expect GW to change.

 

Really looking forward to reading my codex tonight! May even buy some snacks!

Changes that come quick are good. Im totally there with you. However what I see now is that we have so many small things change that with some thinking should not have to be changed in the first place.

 

To me most of the changes we see in regards to wording directly comes from Games Workshops intend. Getting to the point quickly usually is the best way to do that. E.g. the whole explanation of how marks of chaos work(ed). Things can really be as simple as saying you need to change it to either Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch or Undivided (like they did past 4 editions) and then mention which Legion options are there for those marks, leading to Khorne = World Eaters and Renegades, Slaanesh = EC and Renegades, Undivided is Night Lords, Word Bearers etc.

 

As before Im not upset with the Codex and the fact that I bought it, I'm upset it's just rushed as heck and there really is no hiding to that. In the end there are actually just 30-ish pages of new content and the fact that even those are up for an Errata makes it a bit of a pitty.

 

 

I don't get the "they haven't playtested it" mindset. Just because they are quick to FAQ and errata doesn't mean they haven't playtested. They could have playtested the hell out of it, playing it the way *they think the game should be played* then they release it and see all the rules lawyering, misinterpretation of the rules (which they probably thought were clear) and then they quickly release FAQ and Errata based off that.

 

They could playtested something for years and release something they thought was good, then people play it completely different because they have a totally different goal and mindset, and all that playtesting counts for less.

 

I actually like the pace of the releases.

They have playtested but some of the quick changes they have not. If the design team after 8th editions of Warhammer 40K still doesn't know how to make intend clear then there is something that can be said about that. Let me tell you this, there was a time where Warhammer 40Ks rules where as crisp and clear as they could come. This newer trend is creeping in since late 7th and I don't know why the team allows for it. You can put the intend of every rule in the book aswell. 

 

I don't mind the pace of releases if its content is good and clear. As we speak we have no clearity on how specifically this Codex interacts with the Index. This in itself is an intend other people cannot guess. The fact that there is no mentioned link between Index and Codex in the Codex in itself is a problem for many players and reasons.

 

Being clear about what a product is is so important for any product.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

Not specific to CSM but when 8e dropped I thought one of the aims was less bloat and a streamlined game without the need for 6 codexes/supplements to play an army, which was possible in 7e.

 

Now as the codex are starting to drop it would appear CSM will be spread across at least 3 possibly 4 books if we include daemons before we get to the possibility of CSM Khorne CSM Slaanesh. That's not quite how I expected 8e to turn out but it's early in the release cycle so I need to wait and see where this goes.

That's because many people didn't actually listen to what GW said.

The rules in the actual rulebook were supposed to be less bloated. Which they did. They never ever said anything about the rules in Codices getting less bloated. All they said about the Codices was that they wanted us to have all (or most) of the rules of a unit on their Datasheet so you don't have to search through 2+ books for what their special rules do.

Yeah its mostly the 'community' that complained about multiple dex's. Funny though that some of the same people are happy to carry around the same ammount of books now and are happy because '8th is the kewellest edition EVER *fact!!!* and GW aint screwwing us out of money releasing multiple sub par products'.

 

*praises 7th ed* :wub:

[Panzer]

 

 

Not specific to CSM but when 8e dropped I thought one of the aims was less bloat and a streamlined game without the need for 6 codexes/supplements to play an army, which was possible in 7e.

 

Now as the codex are starting to drop it would appear CSM will be spread across at least 3 possibly 4 books if we include daemons before we get to the possibility of CSM Khorne CSM Slaanesh. That's not quite how I expected 8e to turn out but it's early in the release cycle so I need to wait and see where this goes.

That's because many people didn't actually listen to what GW said.

The rules in the actual rulebook were supposed to be less bloated. Which they did. They never ever said anything about the rules in Codices getting less bloated. All they said about the Codices was that they wanted us to have all (or most) of the rules of a unit on their Datasheet so you don't have to search through 2+ books for what their special rules do.

Yeah its mostly the 'community' that complained about multiple dex's. Funny though that some of the same people are happy to carry around the same ammount of books now and are happy because '8th is the kewellest edition EVER *fact!!!* and GW aint screwwing us out of money releasing multiple sub par products'.

 

*praises 7th ed*

 

It is the best edition so far and GW would've screwed us out of money anyway, doesn't has anything to do with 8th edition. Their goal is to earn money. :P

 

And yeah, screw 7th. I didn't have as much of a problem with the complexity as others since I'm used to complex rules from the Pen&Paper I play, but it really wasn't a good edition with all those screwed up formations and the core rules of 8th are better as well.

[Raven1]

To be fair whether or not 8th edition is the best or coolest edition yet GW would still find new ways to get our money. It seems par for the course these days that a game company will release an unfinished product and then try and charge you multiple times to bring you up to the full experience.

[the jeske]

I don't get the "they haven't playtested it" mindset. Just because they are quick to FAQ and errata doesn't mean they haven't playtested. They could have playtested the hell out of it, playing it the way *they think the game should be played* then they release it and see all the rules lawyering, misinterpretation of the rules (which they probably thought were clear) and then they quickly release FAQ and Errata based off that.

 

They could playtested something for years and release something they thought was good, then people play it completely different because they have a totally different goal and mindset, and all that playtesting counts for less.

 

I actually like the pace of the releases.

yeah well. First of all we were told they playtested it a lot [2 years] and that the playtesting was also done by people who played the game for real. Then the problem is not the fact that they write rules in a strange or odd way, but the fact that no one for the whole time the game was tested did the simplest thing even noob player do. Sit down the the rule book, check what the edition is about[and they knew from AoS, they wanted to move in to a more buff centric edition], then open the codex/index, take the units that do the buffing and cram as many units that work well when given the buffs. Or maybe they did that, noticed that something like a SR gets huge millage from lets say G-man or a chapter master, saw people race to buy 2-3 SR, only to nerf the whole thing twice within a month or so[that is assuming a person with no way of getting 8th ed rules sooner then  its official premier].

 

 

 

Yeah its mostly the 'community' that complained about multiple dex's. Funny though that some of the same people are happy to carry around the same ammount of books now and are happy because '8th is the kewellest edition EVER *fact!!!* and GW aint screwwing us out of money releasing multiple sub par products'.

 

Only it has nothing to do with what a person wants or not. If a SR list with re-rolls gave you a higher % of win rate, then a land based list people went  for the SR list. But my real gripe is how much FW is being pushed as auto includes for some armies, we are more or less at the same point we were, when you couldn't play an efficient IG list without 9 saber weapon platforms. So yeah people don't love the multiple books, specially those they have to pay for, but what else can they do, not everyone has an army that works great out of an index/codex and doesn't get a lot better with FW stuff or mixing.

 

To be fair whether or not 8th edition is the best or coolest edition yet GW would still find new ways to get our money. It seems par for the course these days that a game company will release an unfinished product and then try and charge you multiple times to bring you up to the full experience.

 

Nothing wrong with that, I agree with you. Index feel like a hastened game, that is later being fixed by paid DLC.

[Commissar K.]

To be fair whether or not 8th edition is the best or coolest edition yet GW would still find new ways to get our money. It seems par for the course these days that a game company will release an unfinished product and then try and charge you multiple times to bring you up to the full experience.

I'm not even opposed to that concept! However if you have that content and need 2-3 Errata's next to it aswell things get a bit vague and if those Errata pages keep stacking and stacking it still seems to me that there is something wrong with the way rule ideas are communicated to the reader. Clear intend isn't too difficult to share, you just have to be specific and to the point most of the time.

 

If GW simply says, Index is essentially the first supplement after the Rulebook to get and Codexi are actually updated parts of the Index things would be quite clear to me. But for whatever reason they are not that specific with it and then we have GW online discussions and articles who simply state different things :P Which gives the suggestion that even the designer at hand doesn't know the complete intend.

[Bat33.1]

To be fair whether or not 8th edition is the best or coolest edition yet GW would still find new ways to get our money. It seems par for the course these days that a game company will release an unfinished product and then try and charge you multiple times to bring you up to the full experience.

 

OT here but it's not just game companies that expect customers to pay up front and continue to pay even more to get the product to work correctly - looking at you F35 Lightning II fighter jet ;)

[Cryptix]

Should I post some of the lore from the Codex or...

[the jeske]

yes, but there is the question of effort/materials/mulha put in to something and what you get from it in return. The f35 just like the famed Bradley maked many people rich and gave work to many people. There is no gain[other then maybe negative], if lets say havocks are great one week and then they are nerfed in to the ground two weeks later. I know some oldtimers are "used" to horrible stuff being done by GW [years of bad books, no new models, nerfs or buffs that were never asked for etc] and that the new GW seems awesome, but the new GW is making stuff other firms just did as a normal thing. Also GW games are less and less[well outside of UK probably] the entry/first game of a new table top gamer. And no matter what we think about GW models, a w40k army costs on avarge as much as 3-4 armies for other systems. AND if a new player gets burned by a GW errate/FAQ/codex it is not going to be like it was in the 90s or 2000s [when DE players waited 10 years+for a new dex], they won't stay and keep playing/buying GW stuff. This no longer is the world of system X is better, but only GW games are played, so I have to play GW games.

 

I want GW to make good games, and I want people to be happy playing their stuff, no matter what way the games make them happy.

But right now their games have [or more precise w40k] has problems you can only find within its community. I'll give an outside w40k example here. Not so long ago Inifnities version of GT was won by an army which is viewed as the second... from the bottom. Can you imagine something like that happening in w40k?

[Cryptix]

Some snippets I liked

 

I AM ALPHARIUS

Word reaches the High Lords of Terra of a Chaos Lord claiming to be Alpharius ravaging the adamantium-laced moons of the Danevra Sub-sector. Debate rages about whether this could potentially be the case, for the Primarch’s death has been recorded more than once across the span of Imperial history. The Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum dispatches a force of six Vindicare marksmen. Over a number of years they identify and slay a dozen Alpha Legion champions bearing the name of Alpharius upon the scrolls of their battle plate, but the reports of raids upon the sub-sector’s mining operations only intensify. Five years later, the decapitated heads of all six Vindicare Assassins are found frozen in the food storage halls of the High Lords.

 

TWISTED JUSTICE

After millennia of slaughter, the Night Lords warmonger Anvrex Rarth becomes disenchanted with indiscriminate violence. He vows to embody his Primarch’s early days, punishing only those whom he believes deserve it – but doing so with such grievous acts of retribution that none who hear of them dare stray from the path of righteousness. For a time, he finds a kind of peace, but his notions of morality are broken beyond repair. Within the year he is wreaking the most terrible of atrocities as a response to everything from the breaching of shipping contracts to the incorrect pronunciation of High Gothic.

 

THE FEAST OF A HUNDRED DUELS

The centennial Feast of Blades, where the descendants of the Imperial Fists compete against one another in ritual duals, is the target of a massive World Eaters invasion. The sons of Dorn quickly unite against the Khornate maniacs smashing their way through the world’s defences. The finest Space Marine bladesmen of the age match their power swords against the chainaxes and flails of the World Eaters. Though the Chaos Space Marines finally fall to superior numbers, the skies rumble with Khorne’s approval, for the feast halls are awash with the hot blood of champions.

 

GLADIUS ANATHEMA

Upon the quarantined world of Gladius, the Drukhari Wych Cult of the Seventh Woe fight their way into the great fang-lined fighting pits of the World Eaters in search of a challenge. The violent duels that result are amongst the fastest and most vicious that Gladius’ Daemon Prince masters have ever seen. Though dozens of Wyches and World Eaters die upon one another’s blades, Khorne is pleased by the intensity of the carnage, and blesses the occasion with a rain of blood that brings the dead back to life. A bond of wary respect is forged between the two factions, ultimately leading to the invasion known as the Great Blood Wager of Anathema Quartus.

[Cryptix]

THE SKULL HUNT OF OCTARIUS

The Skullhunt of Vodha Bloodprice invades the Octarius System. After hearing about the Tyranids and Orks that clash there in an ever-escalating spiral of violence, they reason that the fighting there will be intense indeed, and that Khorne’s eye will be drawn to the furore. The World Eaters are not disappointed – within the space of a single year, over eight thousand skulls are offered to the Blood God, the smallest of which is the size of a boulder. Vodha ascends to daemonhood after slaying a Hierophant bio-titan with the greataxe of the fallen Ork warlord Magza da Kollossus.

 

BOO!

 

BLOOD RUNS HOT

The famously ferocious T’au Fire Warriors of Vior’la face an incursion of World Eaters. The Chaos Space Marines are so thoroughly lost to the worship of Khorne that their ranks contain as many Spawn as they do Berzerkers. The T’au’s impeccable fire discipline sees the World Eaters warbands kept at arm’s length – that is, until the infectious rage of the Khorne devotees begins to catch in the souls of Vior’la’s foremost cadres. The T’au, voices raised in primitive Fio’taun war cries that have not been heard for centuries, begin to engage the Chaos Spawn at close range and even charge in to engage them in close combat. It does not end well for the T’au. Millions die before a council of six Ethereals are scrambled to the site to lend their calming influence to the Fire caste cadres, restoring order and allowing the T’au to withdraw into low orbit before the World Eaters can complete the slaughter.

 

Chaos Tau?

 

FLESH MEETS STEEL

The Sensorians, a newly formed warband of Slaanesh-worshipping Chaos Space Marines, treat with the Dark Mechanicum in an attempt to pioneer Daemon Engines equipped with suites of sonic weaponry. In doing so they learn of the sombre Skitarii of the forge world Agripinaa, ancestral enemies of the Eye of Terror’s machine-hereteks. Appalled by the notion that the Skitarii voluntarily exchange their flesh for cybernetic replacements, the Emperor’s Children stage a grand raid upon the planet under the cover of a Dark Mechanicum invasion. They capture several maniples of Skitarii, overloading their circuits with barrages of intense noise and deafening scrapcode, before bearing them back to the Eye of Terror. There they cut out the Skitarii’s bionics and replace them with fleshy equivalents taken from mutants, from corpses, even from fallen Chaos Spawn, until barely an ounce of metal is left. The Fleshlings of Sensoria, though driven mad by the process, prove a potent asset in the Long War.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Swarmlord Unleashed

[Commissar K.]

Yeah the lore is cool, the older artwork aswell.

 

Should I post the bits I feel require additional explanation/errata allready ;)? 

[Khornestar]

Go for it.

[helterskelter]

Wait wait wait.. does that mean that the night lords guy technically fought for the imperium? Technically? That is genuinely really ace, that he's gone that insane/mentally unhinged he kind of fights for the other side, whilst still pulling all the stuff he did before. Because you pronounced "festiverunt" incorrectly