How will you equip Reivers?

[evilmittens]

Great stuff.  Learning a lot.  Have not played a game yet, so just really starting out.  Just stressing out over what my load out would be where I dig some parts as they look...and others cause I want to use them.  I might do the 4 and 4  with a sgt, so then have a squad of 5  to run depending on opponent.  4 stabbies, 4 shooties, then chose which one to run.  I know we cannot mix and match.  Thanks guys.  and possibly gals...

[Lemondish]

 

 

I think if at least some effort and courtesy was made, it would be fine even if someone was not WYSIWYG. I don't think people frown upon not being WYSIWYG just to be a snob or anything, it's usually because the "offender" is either rude about it or is clearly not even making an effort.

 

An army that is confusing, not WYSIWYG, that you can't even remember what each gun is and have to ask every phase? Not fun.

 

An army that is not WYSIWYG, but you can still tell what they are anyway? Such as all meltaguns have red weapons or red bases, all plasma guns have blue weapons or blue bases or no helmet or bandaged faces? That's totally fine, it's no different from actual WYSIWYG that way.

 

WYSIWYG was never meant to be a punishment or to be some super fluffy thing, it was meant to ensure players were good sportsmen and had courtesy for their opponents. It's not your opponent's job to recognize your non-standard wargear, and it's borderline cheating to try to gain an advantage via confusion and misleading the opponent when it comes to information that you must give, like non-hidden wargear.

perfectly sums it up.

 

If you modelled flamers on all your tac squads, and said all the flamers in your tac squads are actually melta guns? fine - easy to remember!

 

If you modelled flamers on your 4 tactical squads, and one is a melta gun, one is a plasma gun, one is a grav gun and one is a standard bolter? Nah. Thats just downright annoying (unless you maybe do stuff like painting the base or put stickers on the base rim with weapon name on it or something!)

 

My OCD means I only use models as the kind of weapons they are lol, rare exception may be if models dont exist yet (I used my primaris marines as stalker bolt rifles in a recent game, the kit wasnt out yet).

I'm open to the "annoying" thing for folks who are upfront about their intentions with this, and will be especially accommodating for those who are testing out new lists and options. I have more fun when others are, and there's nothing more fun for me than trying out new combos. I can totally understand how that would be annoying, though.

 

Back on topic - had some HUGE success with Reivers with carbines the other night paired with a 6 man inceptor squad. The Aggressors I deployed with sfts meant that entire flank had some serious threats that the enemy had trouble dealing with. Kept swinging in and hitting hard then heading back into range to take advantage of the -2 to hit (RG ct, shock nade) for their anti infantry. They crumbled against the heavy weapons, but by that point I was holding everything.

[Blindhamster]

Great stuff. Learning a lot. Have not played a game yet, so just really starting out. Just stressing out over what my load out would be where I dig some parts as they look...and others cause I want to use them. I might do the 4 and 4 with a sgt, so then have a squad of 5 to run depending on opponent. 4 stabbies, 4 shooties, then chose which one to run. I know we cannot mix and match. Thanks guys. and possibly gals...

Set has enough bits to make two sergeants, so make two five man squads?

[Gerhard]

Hmm, I know how stressing about loadout feels. However....

 

With the Reivers there is a very nice little detail for which I have to say that I really love Games Workshop. The only choice you really have to make with Reivers is whether you want to use the Carbines or the Knives. Why? Because the Grappel launchers can also be 'equipped' in a holster. What I've done is that I've modeled the entire squad of 10 with Knives and Heavy Bolt Pistols, and then added the holstered Grappel launchers to them as well. There is room on the model to place both the holstered Grappel (or holstered Heavy Pistol), and the sheathe of the Combat Knive (on the back). 

 

Sure it's not 100% WYSIWYG, because they don't have the Launchers in their hands... but they are on the model, and you can simply choose not to use them. So far I've not had any trouble with that, even with players that are very zealous when it comes to WYSIWYG.

[Tauwolf]

..... to my personal favourite I encountered: "this beer bottle is a drop pod".

 

 

That's just stupid. Everyone knows beer bottles are dreadnoughts.....

[Lemondish]

 

..... to my personal favourite I encountered: "this beer bottle is a drop pod".

 

 

That's just stupid. Everyone knows beer bottles are dreadnoughts.....

 

 

The new rage is lego dreadnoughts these days. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Kept swinging in and hitting hard then heading back into range to take advantage of the -2 to hit (RG ct, shock nade) for their anti infantry. They crumbled against the heavy weapons, but by that point I was holding everything.

 

Shock nades only last until the end of the turn, so you'll never stack them for shooting  

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

Kept swinging in and hitting hard then heading back into range to take advantage of the -2 to hit (RG ct, shock nade) for their anti infantry. They crumbled against the heavy weapons, but by that point I was holding everything.

Shock nades only last until the end of the turn, so you'll never stack them for shooting

RG CT and shock nades stack, sorry that I wasn't clear, and you can grenade a unit each time you shoot.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Lemondish

[Kallas]

RG CT and shock nades stack, sorry that I wasn't clear, and you can grenade a unit each time you shoot.

I think Skimask's point was that the Shock Grenades only last for a turn, so their effect would expire before the opponent's shooting phase.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

RG CT and shock nades stack, sorry that I wasn't clear, and you can grenade a unit each time you shoot.

I think Skimask's point was that the Shock Grenades only last for a turn, so their effect would expire before the opponent's shooting phase.

This

[Lemondish]

Ah, I still get confused by player turn versus game turn. We took it to mean game turn. Suppose they're significantly less impactful, then.

 

Will also have an apology to make with the opponent lol Thanks for the clarification

[SkimaskMohawk]

Game turn is now called Battle Round, player turn is turn

[Lemondish]

Game turn is now called Battle Round, player turn is turn

Yeah, I figured that out after scouring the rules a bit. Whoops. Doesn't help that battle round is only mentioned once in the codex lol

 

Will report back when I actually use them properly.

[Prot]

Wait a second... these shock grenades don't work in the opponent's shooting phase when used in my shooting phase?

 

I had a box in my hands today.... maybe it's a good thing I put them down. I probably picked up an even worse Primaris unit instead but I'm such a sucker for the Primaris models.

[Lemondish]

Wait a second... these shock grenades don't work in the opponent's shooting phase when used in my shooting phase?

 

I had a box in my hands today.... maybe it's a good thing I put them down. I probably picked up an even worse Primaris unit instead but I'm such a sucker for the Primaris models.

Yeah, the -1 to hit really only matters in the fight phase. They're also cheaper than Intercessors base, carry a better pistol, and can deep strike. Just like those Inceptors you bought, the Reivers are good when supported properly. Without support, they'll be focused down and die (just like everything). Even though I was previously using the grenades improperly, from my experience the Inceptors and Reivers work pretty well together in the same turn.

 

I'm honestly not sure I understand all the Primaris negativity haha. Aside from these stupid transport limitations they've performed exceptionally well at their roles.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Lemondish

[Prot]

I'm not negative about the Primaris, it's just my truthful experience between the old marines vs Primaris in the games I'm playing.

 

I've used these guys with Inceptors dropping in with Calgar and Cataphractii. And other configurations.

 

I personally don't think these guys are as good as Intercessors for a few reasons. But don't get me wrong, if you're having a great time with these guys, I'm sure they are workable. I just haven't found the right combo for my meta!

[Gerhard]

With respect to everyones opinion... but if you find Reivers bad because the shock grenade doesn't give a -1 in the enemy shooting phase... you're not using Reivers how you're meant to use them.

 

The reason you use the Shock Grenades is to allow you a charge without getting overwatched and then mess with their counter attack in the assault phase.

 

Adding another -1 in their shooting phase would be seriously broken.

 

Furthermore, they are not meant as footslogging infantry charging into everything, but as a deepstriking unit taking out backfields and stuff in cover on top of building.

 

All games I've used them in like that they have been superior in every way and completely wiped out enemy backlines in 2-3 turns, winning me the game.

[evilmittens]

On the model, which one is the shock grenade. I want to paint it ki d of blueish. I figured the frag is the one with squares on it...just like the nades I used in the army lol

[Blindhamster]

With respect to everyones opinion... but if you find Reivers bad because the shock grenade doesn't give a -1 in the enemy shooting phase... you're not using Reivers how you're meant to use them.

 

The reason you use the Shock Grenades is to allow you a charge without getting overwatched and then mess with their counter attack in the assault phase.

 

Adding another -1 in their shooting phase would be seriously broken.

 

Furthermore, they are not meant as footslogging infantry charging into everything, but as a deepstriking unit taking out backfields and stuff in cover on top of building.

 

All games I've used them in like that they have been superior in every way and completely wiped out enemy backlines in 2-3 turns, winning me the game.

Seeing as the enemy cannot overwatch at all.. the -1 to hit from shooting surely must work till next turn otherwise it's a useless effect

[Gerhard]

The unit can't overwatch, and must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made. This effect is considered to be the 'stunned' effect, and it lasts until the end of the turn. Ergo, the turn of the commander who has the Reiver squad throwing the grenade. 

 

It's not useless, as it is aimed at the melee combat taking place which follows after the thrown shock grenade, and as such the unit that is getting attacked by the Reiver squad has a -1 on hit rolls in the combat that follows as part of the Assault phase of the commander with the Reiver squad (same turn). 

[Gothical]

 

With respect to everyones opinion... but if you find Reivers bad because the shock grenade doesn't give a -1 in the enemy shooting phase... you're not using Reivers how you're meant to use them.

 

The reason you use the Shock Grenades is to allow you a charge without getting overwatched and then mess with their counter attack in the assault phase.

 

Adding another -1 in their shooting phase would be seriously broken.

 

Furthermore, they are not meant as footslogging infantry charging into everything, but as a deepstriking unit taking out backfields and stuff in cover on top of building.

 

All games I've used them in like that they have been superior in every way and completely wiped out enemy backlines in 2-3 turns, winning me the game.

Seeing as the enemy cannot overwatch at all.. the -1 to hit from shooting surely must work till next turn otherwise it's a useless effect

 

 

Not at all, there are a couple of uses for it.

 

Firstly, throwing one (remember: grenade effects are not automatic these days) at the squad the Reivers are charging stops them from being Overwatched and inflicts a melee penalty, this can be utterly brutal for overpowering support units and even swing a combat where the Reivers should be outclassed in their favour (remember: re-rolls are BEFORE modifiers so you can reduce the effect of to-hit auras/buffs).

 

Secondly, you can disrupt quite a swathe of the opponents army if you throw the Grenade at unit A and then charge unit B. Unit A can then not fire Overwatch at any units that charge it that phase and suffer the melee penalty (this is brilliant for powerful-but-fragile melee units like Vanguard Veterans or Aggressors, and hilarious on 50-strong units of Conscripts who suddenly do virtually nothing), unit B can only fire Overwatch at the Reivers and therefore allow your other units to engage them unscathed. If the opponent has really bunched up you can multi-charge to soak up the Overwatch of multiple different units - with W2 the Reivers can take a lot of small-arms hits allowing this to be a viable strategy.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yeah, Reivers are close range disruption as most of their kit relies on them being in or very close to a combat; shock grenades prep charges for units, LD debuff, ap -1 Pistols, potential extra melee weapon. They're a support option most of the time, despite them being in the Elite slot. The value of the carbines is great, but makes people think they're more line infantry, when they should mostly be used after the closer targets are gone.

 

Side note, why are Reivers cheaper than Intercessors with the same gun, in addition to their special rules and kit?

[Frater Cornelius]

You can also throw the Grenade in Overwatch yourself. If you hit, it is going to be fun ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

Tried Reaves in the last few games. Grapple hooks are too limiting and the vertical movement bonus never came into play. The melee version also did very little on the turn it arrived.

 

Now then, deep strike and carbine. They rocked. Very flexible at snatching objectives and putting hurt onto scoring units. They also did well at shooting one unit and then charging a different weaker one.

 

They weren't game makers like Hellblasters, but they were an amazing tactical tool. Considering they cost as much as Intercessors, but exchange OS for deep strike and all their other rules, I would say they are really solid. Not 100% sold yet, but given that Marines prefer gunlines and with the death of Pods their scoring reach is limited, Reivers complement Scouts very well at snatching objectives, while your main Wrecking Ball goes through the enemy.

 

Having said that, maybe deep strike melee has its benefits as well, but I have yet to test it.

[Lemondish]

Tried Reaves in the last few games. Grapple hooks are too limiting and the vertical movement bonus never came into play. The melee version also did very little on the turn it arrived.

 

Now then, deep strike and carbine. They rocked. Very flexible at snatching objectives and putting hurt onto scoring units. They also did well at shooting one unit and then charging a different weaker one.

 

They weren't game makers like Hellblasters, but they were an amazing tactical tool. Considering they cost as much as Intercessors, but exchange OS for deep strike and all their other rules, I would say they are really solid. Not 100% sold yet, but given that Marines prefer gunlines and with the death of Pods their scoring reach is limited, Reivers complement Scouts very well at snatching objectives, while your main Wrecking Ball goes through the enemy.

 

Having said that, maybe deep strike melee has its benefits as well, but I have yet to test it.

I imagine the vertical movement depends entirely on the terrain. If you don't have a lot of los blocking terrain like walls or buildings, then I can see why they'd be mostly useless there.