Erelim Squad (Playtesters?)

[Servant of Dante]

More than Chainsword if it was me I'd use Chainaxes. That "+1S -1AP" is incredibly good and chain weapons fits sisters a lot. Maybe an Eviscerator for the Superior?

Chain Axes are a Khorne thing, aren't they? No Imperium units have them that I know of. Plus, I'd rather avoid using weapons that aren't already in the Sisters list.

 

I guess maybe the Superior could get the option to carry an evicecrator, but I'm not sure they need it, and even if they do, I kinda like the idea of arming the whole squad with the same melee weapon. Idk, it just doesn't feel like something I want to do. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Gen.Steiner]

I think having them all carry the same weapons fits the theme of sacrifice of self; the loss of individuality and identity in order to better fight for the God-Emperor...

 

The name is good.

Chain axes are also used, I think, by the Executioners, Space Sharks, and possibly the Flesh Tearers.

[Ezr91aeL]

 

More than Chainsword if it was me I'd use Chainaxes. That "+1S -1AP" is incredibly good and chain weapons fits sisters a lot. Maybe an Eviscerator for the Superior?

Chain Axes are a Khorne thing, aren't they? No Imperium units have them that I know of. Plus, I'd rather avoid using weapons that aren't already in the Sisters list.

 

I guess maybe the Superior could get the option to carry an evicecrator, but I'm not sure they need it, and even if they do, I kinda like the idea of arming the whole squad with the same melee weapon. Idk, it just doesn't feel like something I want to do. 

 

 

 

I think having them all carry the same weapons fits the theme of sacrifice of self; the loss of individuality and identity in order to better fight for the God-Emperor...

 

The name is good.

 

Chain axes are also used, I think, by the Executioners, Space Sharks, and possibly the Flesh Tearers.

As Gen.Steiner has told are rare, but used

 

For the question of weapons I prefer the idea that the Sister Superior should have something that recognize her as an higher grade, thats why I suggest she could take the Eviscerator.

[Servant of Dante]

Does the chain axe still give an extra attack for using it? I wanted to give them a weapon that did that, for anti-hoard capability. And again, I really prefer to not use weapons that aren't already in the Sisters armory.

 

I'm still not sure about the Evicerator, I think it would work fine, I'm just not sure I like the aesthetic of an Evicerator, for this unit. They'd be using it with one hand.

[Ezr91aeL]

Does the chain axe still give an extra attack for using it? I wanted to give them a weapon that did that, for anti-hoard capability. And again, I really prefer to not use weapons that aren't already in the Sisters armory.

 

I'm still not sure about the Evicerator, I think it would work fine, I'm just not sure I like the aesthetic of an Evicerator, for this unit. They'd be using it with one hand.

No they does not give extra attack. Anyway I've tried to sketch them and the Power Maul is cool too.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

If the Sisters are cyborgs, they probably have the necessary enhancements to let them wield a chainfist. Give them chainfists, freeing their other hand to wield storm bolters.

[Servant of Dante]

I did think about that, and, again, it's not a weapon the Sisters have in their list rn, but more importantly I really want to distance them from Terminators mechanically, and giving them chainfists would make them feel a lot more like Termis than they do right now.

 

Ezr91aeL: I like the sketch! Really neat. I think I imagined them with ambit more heft around the waist/hips, but that's hardly important. I like that you made them look almost like miniaturized titans (the little reliquary looking thing on the top like an imperator, and the feet definitely have that Titan aesthetic). Very symbolic, though I'm not sure how the Mechanicus will feel about the Ministorum imitating their God-Machines :D

 

I guess I also kinda imagined them a little less clean looking, personally. I was thinking of tubes and wires everywhere, trying to emphasize that there's a chopped up person fused into the thing. The clearly robotic limbs help with that, certainly, and I feel bad being critical of a drawing someone made of something I wrote ruler for :)

Edited August 4, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Ezr91aeL]

I did think about that, and, again, it's not a weapon the Sisters have in their list rn, but more importantly I really want to distance them from Terminators mechanically, and giving them chainfists would make them feel a lot more like Termis than they do right now.

 

Ezr91aeL: I like the sketch! Really neat. I think I imagined them with ambit more heft around the waist/hips, but that's hardly important. I like that you made them look almost like miniaturized titans (the little reliquary looking thing on the top like an imperator, and the feet definitely have that Titan aesthetic). Very symbolic, though I'm not sure how the Mechanicus will feel about the Ministorum imitating their God-Machines

 

I guess I also kinda imagined them a little less clean looking, personally. I was thinking of tubes and wires everywhere, trying to emphasize that there's a chopped up person fused into the thing. The clearly robotic limbs help with that, certainly, and I feel bad being critical of a drawing someone made of something I wrote ruler for

No problem! I was inspiring myself to the Purifier Engine (sheet posted in the Codex Wishes thread) that is pratically the same thing but Dreadknight sized.

[Eddie Orlock]

... I've tried to sketch them and the Power Maul is cool too. ...

This is probably where we should spend some more effort. Most of the things I've ever heard of the Gee-Dub game design process emphasise that they start with a concept and some concept art first and then try to write rules to match.

 

I've been fascinated by the direction this has taken. Lots of interesting ideas in play.

 

I admit that it doesn't really look like how I'd imagined it at all, but that's okay.

 

Re: game-mechanical differentiation from terminators: in my original fevered imaginings I hadn't mounted close-combat weapons. Period. I'd used the 'power-loader' type chassis to mount half a hurricane bolter on each arm, perhaps with the option to swap out for a similarly silly array of flamers or melta-guns. I'd imagined it some what open fronted to 'show off' the sororita pilot as an in-universe political concession to make it clear that these were still 'women at arms' and that no-one was sneeking male monks in there. Regarding defensive technologies, I'd've first tried the 'phased powerfield' that I last saw in second edition. Essentially a 2+ invulnerable save against any attack originating more than 2" from the model. So, fierce firepower that would crumple like wet tissue paper if you could actually manage an assault on them. In close-combat they'd have to rely on their 3+ power armour and two or three wounds each.

 

At this point though, this is a wholly different idea, and if sketches were produced, should probably be in a new thread.

 

It's been really neat watching you pull this all together. Maybe we can find some folk out of PC&A to do up some more artwork to refine the image and with that roll into some modeling somewhere? Maybe wind up with a nice .stl that could be uploaded to shapeways? Make the unit available for the table?

[Aqui]

What about something similar to Ad Mech Skitarii? A humanoid shape with perhaps a projectile weapon (bolter or flamer - remember the Holy Trinity ) built into an arm? Edited August 4, 2017 by Aqui

[Servant of Dante]

I mean, I'm pretty happy with the way they are now, I'd just avoid using the same cc weapon as Termis, for a bit of difference. I am a bit worried about looking like Deathwing Knights (maces and shields) but that's just one of many possible load outs for these models. As for not having a cc weapon, I'm to enamored with the assault phase (blame the blood angels being my first army) to take that away from them

 

Actually, I'd love to see if anyone else is interested in doing art of some sort for these guys (or even models)! Though of course none of that is my forte (I definitely have some thoughts on formalizing the fluff for the unit though, starting with a bit of a short story). Since you suggested it, I'll put up a thread somewhere asking for ideas/volunteers I suppose. I don't have time right at this moment, but soon! Even if we don't get any takers, it should be fun.

 

Edit: on that note, would anyone (perhaps Ezr91aeL) be interested in making up a nice looking datasheet for the rules we have here? I think it'd be best to put a mark on it making it clear it's a fanmade datasheet though :P

Edited August 5, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Aqui]

Edit: on that note, would anyone (perhaps Ezr91aeL) be interested in making up a nice looking datasheet for the rules we have here? I think it'd be best to put a mark on it making it clear it's a fanmade datasheet though

Definitely. We don't want this to mislead others into thinking it's an official work from GW.

[Beams]

I mean, I'm pretty happy with the way they are now, I'd just avoid using the same cc weapon as Termis, for a bit of difference. I am a bit worried about looking like Deathwing Knights (maces and shields) but that's just one of many possible load outs for these models. As for not having a cc weapon, I'm to enamored with the assault phase (blame the blood angels being my first army) to take that away from them

 

Actually, I'd love to see if anyone else is interested in doing art of some sort for these guys (or even models)! Though of course none of that is my forte (I definitely have some thoughts on formalizing the fluff for the unit though, starting with a bit of a short story). Since you suggested it, I'll put up a thread somewhere asking for ideas/volunteers I suppose. I don't have time right at this moment, but soon! Even if we don't get any takers, it should be fun.

 

Edit: on that note, would anyone (perhaps Ezr91aeL) be interested in making up a nice looking datasheet for the rules we have here? I think it'd be best to put a mark on it making it clear it's a fanmade datasheet though :P

I'm no great artist, but im good enough for government work?

 

I'm out of town for a bit, but if you give me a decent description, I'll try and take a smack at it once I'm back.

[Servant of Dante]

I'll get on that fluff :D (tomorrow) Edited August 5, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Gen.Steiner]

Ooh. I love that artwork. But - perhaps a touch more baroque? Gothic and eldritch; like a sort of walking shrine? Candles and reliquaries and triptychs of Saints and stuff. Maybe even back banners or icons?

Less clean, more religion.

[Servant of Dante]

Well I was kinda planning on writing something today, but that didn't happen (got caught up doing other stuff, assembling models for a different wargame (heresy, I know)). I'll really try and get some stuff written tomorrow, sorry.

 

I have a scene I really want to try and capture with a little story.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Gen.Steiner]

I'm looking forwards to reading it! :)

[Ezr91aeL]

[Servant of Dante]

Ah, thank you Ezr91aeL! I'll take a look at the point costs if you don't mind. I'd like to at least check them out since it's for a homebrew I did

 

Rather than make Fan-Made a keyword could we just add that label somewhere on the datasheet (maybe below the model point cost box), since it's not really part of the unit's rules?

 

Thanks a lot for doing this though! I'll let you know if I think any of the point costs feel off (which is just my opinion ofc), but the real test of that would be actual playtesting.

 

Edit: actually, the only new point costs here are the models themselves and the Praesidium Protectiva. I think that 28 ppm (2 more than termis) feels about right as a starting point, same for the Praesidium at 4 (1 less than a storm shield). Cool, thanks again!

 

Edit2: Though for Power Level, I think I'd like to start at 14 per 5 models, (one more than terminators), since these are of similar survivability, and have all these special weapons options. It's always better for a homebrew to be overcosted than risk being undercosted.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Servant of Dante]

As for fluff, here's what I'm working on. It's the first part of a short story I'm writing. Ofc it's set before the Fall of Cadia by a year or two, because I wanted to use a certain character, and because I wanted to be friendly to people like me who's headcanon doesn't go past the end of M41. :D This is a draft ofc, and an incomplete one at that. I just wanted to share, and prove that I'm doing something :P

 

Feel free to leave comments! Oh, and I've updated the thread title since this unit has a name now. :)

 

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          It was the final days of the 997th year of the forty-first millennium. Helena sat behind her desk this evening, as she has on so may evenings, for so many years. She had been saving this bit of work for just this sort of time, for when the casualty reports and aid requests and all the ramblings of that Throne-blighted Astropathic choir weighed perhaps too heavily on her mind. This work, the assignment of Novices to their Orders upon the consummation of their vows, had always been a joy. Reams of personal files and summaries of the dispositions of every Order, Militant or otherwise, under her jurisdiction sat before her. She tried not to notice the ever-growing deficiencies the disposition reports showed, just for the moment, and began sifting through the files, annotated by notes from Canonesses seeking the best recruits for their own.

          A knock came at the door. Helena glanced at the timepiece on her desk and nodded to the Sister attending her. Tonight, she was a Sister of the Order of Serenity; though she needn’t have brought her surgeon’s implements with her. The girl cracked the door open, speaking quietly to whoever was outside. She seemed rather startled.

          “Just let them in, Sister Elaine,” the girl turned quickly to Helena, nodded meekly, and pulled the door open. Two women stood outside, one walked immediately into the office, while the other spoke hurriedly to someone standing just out of sight in the hallway before following. Helena returned the sign of the Aquile when it was made, and motioned for them to be seated.

          “Canoness Tadra, how have you been? It’s been quite a while,” Helena smiled to the older of the two women sitting across from her.

          “Prioress, I was unaware that we had been introduced. It is an honor.”

          Helena maintained an amicable expression, “I know all of the Canonesses under the banner of this convent, even if they don’t all make an effort to know me.” She did not like Canonesses like Tadra, keeping to the shadows, so to speak, hardly acknowledging that they pledged to the Convent Sanctorum at all. It had always been something of a bad habit amongst the more esoteric non-militant Orders.

          “What brings you here this evening, unannounced, no less?” Tadra seemed taken aback, which wasn’t entirely unintentional on Helena’s part. She was feeling a little less than congenial. The woman moved as if to speak, stopped, glanced at the Sister accompanying her, and prepared to speak again. Helena cut her off by addressing the other Sister, not unkindly.

          “I agree with the Canoness, it would be best if I let you speak for yourself. What is your name, Sister?”

          “Sister Superior Illiena, of the Order of the Iron Needle,” the Sister replied, deadpan. Helena’s amiable smile almost faltered; that tone spoke of either a deft hand for statesmanship, albeit not deft enough to know how to hide the skill, or else a mind completely devoid of delicacy. Keeping her curiosity in check, Helena responded without skipping a beat.

          “Yes, you’ve traveled quite the distance from your Order’s convent. I appreciate that you wish to share your research with me, if I do not miss my guess on why two members of an Order Pronatus would visit me in person.”

[Ezr91aeL]

Ah, thank you Ezr91aeL! I'll take a look at the point costs if you don't mind. I'd like to at least check them out since it's for a homebrew I did

 

Rather than make Fan-Made a keyword could we just add that label somewhere on the datasheet, since it's not really part of the unit's rules?

 

Thanks a lot for doing this though! I'll let you know if I think any of the point costs feel off (which is just my opinion ofc), but the real test of that would be actual playtesting

I've balanced them to be a bit less expensive than Terminators. Mabye some points less? 

PS: What about something like this for the superior body? I've tried to be more "Ecclesiarchial" and added a bunch of cables.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Ezr91aeL

[Servant of Dante]

Well, you have them costing 2 more points per model than Terminators (sans weapons), which I think feels right, as a starting place. I just think the PL should be 14 to be 1 higher than termis.

 

As for the art, honestly, I still want them to look less clean. I want the aesthetic to match how messy and invasive this procedure is. I'm not telling you to go draw it again how I want it, I'm just saying that this doesn't exactly match the look I have in mind for them. I wanted them to keep the overall bulkiness of PA, just a bit scaled up, and with tubing and nodules and stuff all over their torso

 

Edit: like, tubing and cabling over the surface, injectors, etc. I guess the proper word is grotesque. I imagine they would look rather disturbing, even though the only flesh you see is their head, when they take their helmet off.

 

Otherwise, I like the sketch, though, the eagle isn't a very Sistery symbol. In my mind, they would still have the fleur on the right shoulder and the winged I on the left shoulder. And a Chaplet Ecclesiasticus ofc.

 

I'm not saying that what you've drawn is bad, it's quite good, and I couldn't do anything that nice looking, I'm just trying to describe how I imagine them looking.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Gen.Steiner]

Quick note - Storm Bolters are 2pts not 4pts. :) Otherwise excellent.

[Servant of Dante]

Since I've been talking about how I want them to look, I figgured I should try drawing them myself. My proportions are pretty bad, I can hardly draw a straight line, I didn't even try doing feet, etc. So brace yourselves but this is about how I envision them, scaled up PA using the normal Sabbat helmet, the front bit of armour in front if the helmet would be removable for non-combat situations. Maybe more decoration on the torso. The ranged weapon I'm thinking is basically fused to the end of the left arm. They don't have a left hand, just a gun.

Hidden Content

Edited August 7, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Beams]

Did a quick sketch, but I'm still out of time. Don't have a pencil, so you'll have to forgive the quality.

Wanted to go for a living Relic/Martyr approach. I know it's not the way you guys were drawing but...

Edited August 7, 2017 by Beams