+++ Dark Raiders: Renegade Astartes for 8th +++

[Brother Aiwass]

Well, they are emotes from B&C actually.

[Prot]

Toying with a list.

 

Battalion - 1989/2000 points - 7 CP

 

Huron

Lord in TDA, combi-plasma, power axe

Chaos sorc in TDA, combi-plasma, force axe, Delightful Agonies, Prescience

 

Chaos terminators (10), combi-plasma, power maul

Khorne Berzerkers (8), chainaxes, rhino

Khorne Berzerkers (8), chainaxes, rhino

Khorne Berzerkers (8), chainaxes, rhino

 

Chaos Space Marines (5), Lascannon

Chaos Space Marines (5), Lascannon

Chaos Space Marines (5), Lascannon

 

Predator Annihilator (1)

 

Theoretical:

 

CSM sit on the back in cover taking pot shots at enemy armor, along with the predator. Rhinos rush forward and the terminators drop where they can be more annoying (everybody but Huron and Zerks is Slaanesh).

 

Problems I see with this list;

 

Too much units, almost guaranteed to go second.

Low count troops.

No DS mitigation.

No place for an Exalted Chap.

No place for my Deredeo :(

 

The good things;

 

Target saturation. The enemy should have a bad time when focus firing -goes for the hungry rhinos? Or the 10 FnP terminator squad? My troops?

 

Things I'd left out and would love to include:

 

Exalted Chap, Deredeo, 2x3 (or 1x6) flamer bikes, 5 khorne melta-termies, a Dark Apostle.

 

Share your thoughts on this approach, fellow renegades.

  

 

I think the list looks fun, but I would probably opt out of the marine troops. I realize they have a role here but DA and Exalted in my experience will give you a greater return from the main thrust of the army.

 

 

Well, they are emotes from B&C actually.

It depends on the skin people are using. Unfortunately the lighter emotes just don't show up as well on some of them.

[Rodrick]

I honestly don't see much of a reason to play Renegades over Alpha Legion or Night Lords for a mixed god army except for fluff reasons.

Advance&Charge is nice, but it ultimately is just an average of 3.5" more range on the turn you plan to charge (with exceptions like Bikes who always advance 6").

renegades offers the second best legion trait for CC oriented armies,  World eaters being the first, but most important Renegades lets you take Psykers,   warptime AND advancing for Deamons princes is huge,  also the +2str +1 attack  spell is awesome

[Panzer]

 

I honestly don't see much of a reason to play Renegades over Alpha Legion or Night Lords for a mixed god army except for fluff reasons.

Advance&Charge is nice, but it ultimately is just an average of 3.5" more range on the turn you plan to charge (with exceptions like Bikes who always advance 6").

renegades offers the second best legion trait for CC oriented armies,  World eaters being the first, but most important Renegades lets you take Psykers,   warptime AND advancing for Deamons princes is huge,  also the +2str +1 attack  spell is awesome

 

Legion traits is not everything. I'd rate the infiltrate Stratagem and especially in combination with the -1 to-hit legion trait for units further away higher than being able to advance&charge.

The other things you listed aren't unique to Renegades.

[Rodrick]

 

 

I honestly don't see much of a reason to play Renegades over Alpha Legion or Night Lords for a mixed god army except for fluff reasons.

Advance&Charge is nice, but it ultimately is just an average of 3.5" more range on the turn you plan to charge (with exceptions like Bikes who always advance 6").

renegades offers the second best legion trait for CC oriented armies,  World eaters being the first, but most important Renegades lets you take Psykers,   warptime AND advancing for Deamons princes is huge,  also the +2str +1 attack  spell is awesome

 

Legion traits is not everything. I'd rate the infiltrate Stratagem and especially in combination with the -1 to-hit legion trait for units further away higher than being able to advance&charge.

The other things you listed aren't unique to Renegades.

 

for CC  chaos armies is either WE or Renegades (for me anyway), and that's why renegades are unique, second best trait for cc and also  psykers

[Panzer]

 

 

 

I honestly don't see much of a reason to play Renegades over Alpha Legion or Night Lords for a mixed god army except for fluff reasons.

Advance&Charge is nice, but it ultimately is just an average of 3.5" more range on the turn you plan to charge (with exceptions like Bikes who always advance 6").

renegades offers the second best legion trait for CC oriented armies,  World eaters being the first, but most important Renegades lets you take Psykers,   warptime AND advancing for Deamons princes is huge,  also the +2str +1 attack  spell is awesome

 

Legion traits is not everything. I'd rate the infiltrate Stratagem and especially in combination with the -1 to-hit legion trait for units further away higher than being able to advance&charge.

The other things you listed aren't unique to Renegades.

 

for CC  chaos armies is either WE or Renegades (for me anyway), and that's why renegades are unique, second best trait for cc and also  psykers

 

As said, I disagree. But to each their own I guess.

[Brother Aiwass]

@The Traitor & Prot;

 

The list was just a mental exercise on how to make a renegade army that has punch in CQC and shooting. Yeah, the terminators are points heavy (500) plus the sorc and lord (I take your advice and remove the lord for extra points elsewhere. This will affect their firepower output, but not in a percentage that makes this noticeable with all those plasma shots.

 

About the marine troops, they're here for a twofold purpose. First of them being making possible to take a battalion (later I realized I could make that list with both a battalion (CSM and everything else) and a vanguard (sorc, termies and zerkers) with a total of 8 CP)  for extra CP; and second, to be a second wave/anti-DS (while crappy at it) for grabbing objectives or support the CQC vanguard.

 

This, however, is the current list I'm working on to actually play with (not formated, but includes a vanguard and a battalion detachments):

 

+DRAGON WARRIORS+

 

Huron

Termie sorc with P-Axe

Exalted Champion with the Black Mace

 

5 Slaaneshi terminators with power maul and c-plasma

2x8 zerkers with chainaxes and chainswords

 

3x5 CSM with flamer and c-flamer

3 rhinos (for zerkers and havocs)

 

Hellforged predator with melta cannon and HF sponsons

2x5 Havocs with 4 flamers and c-flamer each (slaanesh)

 

That leaves me free of 243 points out of 2000.

 

Now with that core, I'm wondering what to do with those points. A soulburner contemptor would fit nicely, however, I'm considering replacing those havocs with 10 warpflamer rubrics (almost the same damage output and better rules), this move alone, however, would eat ~100 points of those 243, and with the rest, just maybe for fluffy reasons I could include 2 pets, a summoned dragon (Karanak) and a fire elemental (Exalted flamer of Tzeentch). Maybe this is sub-optimal but those dudes would be summoned in T2 or 3 while Huron is in combat and act as carnifexes or support, in both cases being annoying.

 

But I'd like to know if any of you have flamer rubric experience and how they perform or if they're worth the points (320 with flamers for all but the sorc, who would have an axe).

 

Cheers!

[Prot]

I have used flamer Rubrics a ton. There is always a struggle to find the points for me to make nvlude lots of flamers. I thnk my favourite is 4 flamers per 10man squad.

 

Funny thing is I have 20 of these guys at my disposal but I can't find it in me to include them in my Red Corsairs. I like Noise Marines and Obliterators better for tank killing reasons but it might be that I've used the unit so often it just doesn't appeal to me as much ch.

[Prot]

Hey guys, thought I could post this here....

I tried looking for Huron on ebay, etc, and I found TONS of Hurons had their thumb snapped off. (Often being sold on ebay... at one-fifth off.... /drum roll )

So I realized many of these Hurons had a repair, some good, some bad.

I found a few good thumbs, many used the Terminator claw thumb, but I preferred the aesthetics of the Warp Talon thumb. So I tried to cut it as close as I could to the base of the hand, and used some green stuff to plop it on like so...

I know he's under going a repaint.. just ignore that, but do you think this thumb will hold? I intend on letting the green stuff dry and then 'cutting' the green stuff flat to blend into the hand better. But all I did was take the plastic, and the greenstuff, mould it a bit, and plop it on to the bare 'socket' on the metal hand. I'm worried it will just fall off ... or will it adhere to the metal?

[Panzer]

You maybe want to drill a small hole in both pieces and support it with some metal rod or something like that.

[ChazSexington]

A mock up of my VERY WiP Black Dragon Librarian turned Red Corsair Sorcerer. His other hand will be holding an open book. I'll also do my best to make him a tabard and tubes, and copy the Librarian symbol for his shoulder pad using a press mould. I've almost finished 5 Warp Talons (the puppy chewed up an arm, so replacements are on their way) to go with him, and I'll get 5 more. Some will have the Dragon thing attached to their jump packs and spikes.

This is Huron getting turned into paste by Voldus in my last game.

[Lucerne]

A mock up of my VERY WiP Black Dragon Librarian turned Red Corsair Sorcerer. His other hand will be holding an open book. I'll also do my best to make him a tabard and tubes, and copy the Librarian symbol for his shoulder pad using a press mould. I've almost finished 5 Warp Talons (the puppy chewed up an arm, so replacements are on their way) to go with him, and I'll get 5 more. Some will have the Dragon thing attached to their jump packs and spikes.

This is Huron getting turned into paste by Voldus in my last game.

Where's the dragon bit on his jump pack from?

[Prot]

Nice picture! Huron definitely should have won that battle... ah, I know what went wrong... No Hamidraya! The Hamidraya should be biting Voldus' leg, while Huron hand flames him! ;)

 

Do you have a battle report or more pictures on this game? I'd love to see it.

[ChazSexington]

 

A mock up of my VERY WiP Black Dragon Librarian turned Red Corsair Sorcerer. His other hand will be holding an open book. I'll also do my best to make him a tabard and tubes, and copy the Librarian symbol for his shoulder pad using a press mould. I've almost finished 5 Warp Talons (the puppy chewed up an arm, so replacements are on their way) to go with him, and I'll get 5 more. Some will have the Dragon thing attached to their jump packs and spikes.

 

*snip*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is Huron getting turned into paste by Voldus in my last game.

 

 

Where's the dragon bit on his jump pack from?

 

 

Kromlech - casting is excellent and I can strongly recommend them! I'm going to give them more support through green stuff (to create a flesh-to-metal thing) and pinning.

 

Nice picture! Huron definitely should have won that battle... ah, I know what went wrong... No Hamidraya! The Hamidraya should be biting Voldus' leg, while Huron hand flames him!

 

Do you have a battle report or more pictures on this game? I'd love to see it.

 

Hahah, always need the Hamadrya! I have it painted, but I think he lost his rules. However, sadly no bat rep or more photos. I play twice or thrice a month, and I often use Huron + 3 DV Helbrutes, so I can get more photos next time :)

[Prot]

 

Nice picture! Huron definitely should have won that battle... ah, I know what went wrong... No Hamidraya! The Hamidraya should be biting Voldus' leg, while Huron hand flames him!

 

Do you have a battle report or more pictures on this game? I'd love to see it.

 

Hahah, always need the Hamadrya! I have it painted, but I think he lost his rules. However, sadly no bat rep or more photos. I play twice or thrice a month, and I often use Huron + 3 DV Helbrutes, so I can get more photos next time

 

Oh yea, he's got rules.. .I use him. He can be attacked in CC if I recall correctly. He's T4 with 1 wound. I try to keep Huron out of CC... he's not that great in there. So I rarely lose the Hamidraya.

 

 

 

Renegade Wise I still haven't used Fabius Bile. I keep telling myself to do so.... basically there's a Tzeentch trick where you can slap MoT on a larger squad of Possessed, get them Warp Time and Fate, with a Changling in the area (if possible) and this becomes a super fast, potential T1 assault unit with the assistance of Warp Talons.

 

I want to try this, with a rhino screaming up with character support (huron and Fabius?)

 

I need to add more bikers too. It's challenging to make the list as you could do so with Alpha legion but there's some tricks there. The big thing that is killing me is no "Veterans of the Long War" Strategem. I really hate not having that.

[ChazSexington]

 

 

Nice picture! Huron definitely should have won that battle... ah, I know what went wrong... No Hamidraya! The Hamidraya should be biting Voldus' leg, while Huron hand flames him!

 

Do you have a battle report or more pictures on this game? I'd love to see it.

 

Hahah, always need the Hamadrya! I have it painted, but I think he lost his rules. However, sadly no bat rep or more photos. I play twice or thrice a month, and I often use Huron + 3 DV Helbrutes, so I can get more photos next time

 

Oh yea, he's got rules.. .I use him. He can be attacked in CC if I recall correctly. He's T4 with 1 wound. I try to keep Huron out of CC... he's not that great in there. So I rarely lose the Hamidraya.

 

 

 

Renegade Wise I still haven't used Fabius Bile. I keep telling myself to do so.... basically there's a Tzeentch trick where you can slap MoT on a larger squad of Possessed, get them Warp Time and Fate, with a Changling in the area (if possible) and this becomes a super fast, potential T1 assault unit with the assistance of Warp Talons.

 

I want to try this, with a rhino screaming up with character support (huron and Fabius?)

 

I need to add more bikers too. It's challenging to make the list as you could do so with Alpha legion but there's some tricks there. The big thing that is killing me is no "Veterans of the Long War" Strategem. I really hate not having that.

 

 

I thought the Hamadrya didn't have Codex rules? I saw them in the Index. 

 

The issue, I find, with Rhinos is how easy they are to smash. I blew up a Rhino T1 in this game, then charged the GKs inside with Helbrutes. I'd seruously opt for a Land Raider instead. 

 

I've also decided to go full "concept" army for 8th. There's more internal balance (though I still think CSMs and Cultists are bad, esp. the former), so I'm going narrative.

 

Going for (initially):

10 Warp Talons + Sorcerer with Jump Pack (Black Dragons and Raven Guard turned to Chaos)

3 Helbrutes + Warpsmith (Creations of one of Valthex's apprentices)

Daemons (For the Sorcerer to summon)

 

Then I'll expand with:

2 Rhinos (maybe a Land Raider)

20 CSMs (Space Wolves turned Red Corsairs during the Indomitus Crusade, seeing Primaris as Heretical and agents of Guilliman)

30 Cultists (Pirate Crew of the Black Lady, a Renegade Rogue Trader)

 

I'll even drop Huron soon - I just felt I should have a metal Huron available for eventual bigger games.

[Prot]

Actually my codex states that Huron and the Hamadrya are one unit but it still has its own stat line.

 

My problem with not taking Rhinos is getting alpha'd to death. Sure a rhino dies quick but turn against some armies can be downright crippling.

 

So by dropping Huron is that because you don't like him?

 

I had plans for a bunch of Wolves Corsairs too but.. just can't force myself to use CSM.

[ChazSexington]

Actually my codex states that Huron and the Hamadrya are one unit but it still has its own stat line.

 

My problem with not taking Rhinos is getting alpha'd to death. Sure a rhino dies quick but turn against some armies can be downright crippling.

 

So by dropping Huron is that because you don't like him?

 

I had plans for a bunch of Wolves Corsairs too but.. just can't force myself to use CSM.

 

I don't like using Special Characters - it detracts from the feeling of "your dudes," if you know what i mean. 

 

I know CSM are utter pants, but I'm going full Narrative. I hardly won many games in 7th, I'm used to it - and I can still take some other useful units!

[Panzer]

The question with Transports as Alpha Strike prevention is always....is it worth the amount of bodies you could get for those points for that unit? For expensive units the answer is pretty simple normally, but for cheap-ish units it's not that easy to answer.

[Prot]

It's more a role question for me, so yes it's worth it. I tried it with and without transports. For me they make a difference.

[The Traitor]

I usually pay transports only for assault or short range units, the ones with 24" of range or more have cultists and BLOS terrain aginst alpha strike. On the other hand, zerkers and rubricae always get a rhino, which usually gets at least one turn of movement before blowing off, which should be enough for renegades.

[Prot]

Yes, basically that's my personal rule as well. 

 

I feel a little frustrated though without VotLW and how good Deathguard seems. I could just be having those old jealousy feelings from too many years of playing Chaos and feeling the underdog. What I don't want to do is rely on FW like many tournament players are doing. 

 

Right now the only 'must have' unit I've fielded is the DP followed closely by the Oblits BUT that being said these are not really enhanced by using them with Renegades. 

 

I've played against a few armies now with -1 to hit and it instantly makes me think how nice that would be to have army wide... Still I have this bizarre affection for Huron and Possessed. Still haven't tried Fabius though.

[The Traitor]

Yeah, same thing here, though I still think Renegades are superior for certain builds, and I'll keep using them because it's where the II Legion fits, I apologise to sfPamzer because after a lot of playing I have to admit that Alpha Legion are better in most cases. However Renegades are far from bad, and CC units in Rhinos have a huge threat range with their trait, so things like zerkers or possessed (still haven't tried CC kitted plague marines) get to the enemy FAST.

And I disagree with Death Guard being better, they lack very powerful units such as Obliterators and key abilities like Warp-time, and their main feature is being tough, which isn't too useful against the exaggerated firepower of 8th ed (same reason because of which necrons don't shine in competitive environments).

[Prot]

Well I think we will have to agree to disagree on Deathguard..

 

Alpha Legion does have a considerable leg up but I’m trying to be realistic in what that really translates into on the table top, and in the units I have the most fun using. (As we all do really).

 

For an example, I As just beat by Deathguard again... but I have to wonder if Alpha Legion would have faired any better in that specific situation. And again, fun does come into the picture. Sometimes I wish my Abaddon conversion and Termies hadn’t gone missing, just because of think it’s fun.

 

Huron is a fun character, to me so are possessed and Warp Talons. These units really synergize nicely with Renegades.

 

To be fair, as I mentioned in a previous post, the CSM codex isn’t seen a lot already in competitive circles, but that being said I have to wonder if the recent releases of Eldar and IG will force a slight meta shift towards speed and close combat.

[Panzer]

To be fair, as I mentioned in a previous post, the CSM codex isn’t seen a lot already in competitive circles, but that being said I have to wonder if the recent releases of Eldar and IG will force a slight meta shift towards speed and close combat.

Just found this linked in another forum. Two of the top 5 lists at the SoCal Open are CSM (Alpha Legion). Tho to be fair, one was Obliterator spam with some Nurglings and Cultists added and the other looks like smite spam if I see correctly.

https://spikeybits.com/2017/10/top-5-army-lists-in-8th-edition-40k-from-socal-open.html

 

The GK list is a joke as well since the actual GK part is only 3 GM in NDK and the rest is AM lol but that's not really important here I guess. ^^