Calgar - actually the best choice to lead the Ultramarines

[Captain Idaho]

Controversial title, I know, but consider it for a moment. What does Calgar bring to the table that Guilliman doesn't? Teleportation really and a discount. Oh and he can get inside a transport. What does he bring that's useful regardless of comparison to Guilliman?

 

Let's look at Calgar:

 

- He has 7 wounds and can't be targeted by most units firepower unless he's the closest model. He also halves all wounds rounding up. This is all adds up to a very tough character who will likely be standing come the end of the game.

 

- Decent shooting attack.

 

- Powerful close combat ability.

 

- Grants 2 additional Command Points.

 

- He can Teleport.

 

- Chapter Master Aura.

 

Now, reviewing his abilities and stats, putting him with a large unit of Terminators is a great choice. He can get stuck into close combat straight away this way and has a unit escort to protect him that is also very tough.

 

All for just 200pts!

 

Personally I find points to be tight whenever I build a list and the 160pts discount over Guilliman whilst maintaining powerful attributes and offensive capabilities means I think Calgar is competing with Guilliman as best choice for Ultramarines armies leader. A budget Guilliman though that under states his amazing potential.

[Stoic Raptor]

He might be the one non-Primaris model that I include in my battalion.  Sadly, acquiring the newer model without buying the Honor Guard box has been a challenge for me.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

A very nice break down Idaho, and i think the point that really sticks out is Calgar's ability to teleport on to the table, as to me this sums up his role quickly, he is a forward commander, the one we deploy right at the enemy.

As all our other character units have to advance up the board in one fashion or another, Calgar is there and his synergy with terminators is nice, rerolling all misses for a unit who take -1 to bs for heavy weapons, and -1 to ws from their fists he is a good buff.

[Prot]

I use him repeatedly. I keep telling people that Guilliman is in fact very good but Calgar is almost as good. The pluses and minuses between using these two is actually very tight.

 

I can only speak for myself but what it comes down to for me is:

 

1. Guilliman still requires 2 HQ's in a list to make a Battalion. That makes his 'cost' seem even worse than the sticker price.

 

2. Guilliman's true advantage for me is: Close combat Beastmode (which is entirely wasted in many firefight games) and his "to Wound" Aura.

 

#1 makes my lists feel very inefficient sometimes, because the true damage from using -either- of these HQ's does not largely come from them. When I take Magnus he is doing a ton of damage, and when he goes, so often goes the game with him. But these guys are force multipliers.

 

#2 When... or if Roboute gets in toe to toe, he's largely capable of taking anything on under a 'Magnus' level threat. The to wound aura is mostly a feeling of a Lt. on steroids. It's just so handy.

 

At the end of the day I think it's a very individual decision.Calgar works very well with a mobile army, and flyers, Guilliman works very well with a gunline.

 

+edit+

 

I know this outside of the conversation but I do like a solo Primaris Captain with the 3 CP Aura, for a very cost effective HQ. (can these be refunded?)

Edited August 15, 2017 by Prot

[Captain Idaho]

I don't have my rules handy but the refund of CP depends on whether the Warlord Trait is chosen before the use of a Strategum. That's another discussion for elsewhere I feel though.

 

Anywho...

 

Yes I forgot about Guilliman being a Lord of War as opposed to an HQ choice. That's actually a fairly big thing. It means, no matter what, Guilliman included in the list actually will cost more in practice as an HQ needs to be bought.

[Bugmansgunt]

Okay I like the Topic!

...

now we know that Calgar is the better chois (and i totally agree with that)

But how do we use him right?

 

I always see him die with his 5 terminator friends after deep strikeing into the enemy's line! (even worse if they dont get into CC)

 

Or am I just crap in rolling dice?

[Captain Idaho]

Extra models in the unit will help. I'd also consider additional units for target saturation.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

Also when are you deepstriking? Are you aiming for turn 1 alpha strike or are you waiting until you have other units advancing up the field? As it could just be that they are too exposed if you fail the charge or you opponent just has good target priority, unfortunately the latter cant be helped in anyway unless you blindfold your opponent or use other means more commonly known as cheating, but these methods are frowned upon in gaming circles.

 

Well i think this topic has me sold on finding the drive to finish painting metal calgar, i've really had him too long not to be painted at this point.

[Bugmansgunt]

I just removed the old paint from him to repaint him soon, cause my painting skills got a bit better then befor 10 years :D

 

 

ill try it out with more Terminators still 7 Terminators and one of them with a assault cannon + Calgar is about 500 Points of deep strikeing! isnt that to much?

 

well i Play games with 1850 Points mostly...

 

normally i try to deepstike in turn one and attack a strong unit to get that one out of the game. (I like the imagen of 2 HQ's fighting each other)

 

Do you guys do that the same way or do you say 500Points go and kill some easy troops?

[Captain Idaho]

It's dependent on the circumstances of the game really. What is your list like, what is your opponent's lists like, do you have the staying power to survive without reinforcements, how have you both deployed and what moves have you made etc.

 

On the whole it's best to put pressure on opponents soon as possible but if the opponent hasn't moved out of his deployment far enough yet then hold back if you're aiming to come down and attack a certain point. There's little use dropping them somewhere they will achieve little just because you want them down 1st turn. Remember, in a Maelstrom game or objectives based game, forcing an opponent to hang back and hesitate because you got heavy hitters coming in will allow you to dominate the movement phase and dictate the game.

 

Against Eldar and their ilk, cutting off an attack with a Teleport ambush will give you a chance to hit back when they're most vulnerable - when these sorts of armies are in your grill and they need to skip to a separate side of the battlefield. That requires your opponent to commit 1st.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

It could also be influenced by your long ranged support, as from reading the forums i know myself and Cpt Idaho both like to use Venerable Dreadnoughts with twin Lascannons next to devastators squads in our armies, which does give us a good salvo of heavy fire to chuck out into an opponents tanks or flyers, so we wouldnt necessarily have to commit Calger and the Terminators to charging the biggest threat on the table but still at a unit thaat could cause issues if not dealt with sooner rather than later

[Frater Cornelius]

Calgar and Guilliman fit in different lists. You are probably not going to take a Battalion as often when running Guilliman as opposed to Calgar. Guilliman also gives full re-rolls to Wound, something that has far more mileage than re-rolls to hit when running SM with their almost universal BS3 and better. Both are great, but both are different beasts for different lists.

[Prot]

Okay I like the Topic!

...

now we know that Calgar is the better chois (and i totally agree with that)

But how do we use him right?

 

I always see him die with his 5 terminator friends after deep strikeing into the enemy's line! (even worse if they dont get into CC)

 

Or am I just crap in rolling dice?

 

 

I use him a lot where a fair chunk of my forces will be mobile/deep striking.

 

I don't think you're using him wrong persay, I just think what some people do (and I've been guilty of this) is put Calgar out to die with a flanking force that really has no chance.

 

Stuff dies a ton in 8th. Calgar is a big target, usually a Warlord. So Termies are easy, and maybe even automatic. But maybe we take a page out of our Deathwatch friends and use a Pod or Stormraven force to compliment him.

 

To this point what I've done is drop him in with Cataphractii (but I'm going towards regular Termies now instead) and Assault Bolter Inceptors (probably a bad idea but I'm stubborn; they are too expensive) and I've also recently added a small squad of Reivers.

 

This can do some work, and it makes much better use of Calgar.

 

Remember the regular Termies come with a Teleporter now so you can reinforce your back lines in late game if you need to. (I find most people don't even consider the teleporter and I've used it to great effect.)

[Ishagu]

I love Calgar, easily one of the best Chapter Masters.

 

It's so easy to make a Batallion with him, and having another HQ like the Lieutenant can create a comparable aura to Guilliman.

[Stickeh]

He's become my go to HQ. The benefits he brings over a regular TDA captain are enormous for his cost, to the extent that the only reason I would ever run a vanilla TDA Captain was if I didn't want to run UM chapter tactics.

 

As noted one of the best uses for him is deepstriking alongside terminators. 2 squads of 5 with a heavy weapon gives 20 ablative wounds in 2+/5+ that enemies have to chew through before they get to him, and gives a good amount of re rolls. Don't forget the re rolls work in combat too.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Also when are you deepstriking? Are you aiming for turn 1 alpha strike or are you waiting until you have other units advancing up the field? As it could just be that they are too exposed if you fail the charge or you opponent just has good target priority, unfortunately the latter cant be helped in anyway unless you blindfold your opponent or use other means more commonly known as cheating, but these methods are frowned upon in gaming circles.

 

Well i think this topic has me sold on finding the drive to finish painting metal calgar, i've really had him too long not to be painted at this point.

 

I know the feeling.

[Bugmansgunt]

I'll try that out! even if it means to drop more :D

 

And thank you for the ideas guys ;)

 

I'll tell you guys how it worked out but it may take a while till my next battle starts!

[greatcrusade08]

Calgar does look a tasty choice, I feel his chapter master rule, works best with units of shooty, for those rerolls to hit.

maybe a couple large units of termies, for a 1st co lovin?

[KhorneHunter57x]

Calgar does look a tasty choice, I feel his chapter master rule, works best with units of shooty, for those rerolls to hit.

maybe a couple large units of termies, for a 1st co lovin?

Right now, I'm liking the idea of Termies+Calgar+Sternguard (in a Pod).  Gonna give it a shot once I get them painted up.

Edited August 16, 2017 by KhorneHunter57x

[LordDrakon]

Gunline Guilliman all day every day, Deep strike list, Calgar does seem like an interesting choice, than a cheap captain and lt for your backfield stuff.

[Welf1984]

That is a good tactical concept. I think I will create a Termi/Calgar list and a Guilliman & gunline list for our TT club's next tournament.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

Gunline Guilliman all day every day, Deep strike list, Calgar does seem like an interesting choice, than a cheap captain and lt for your backfield stuff.

Dont forget you can give a non-primaris Lt a jump pack so he can land alongside Calgar and the Termies.

[Igles]

 

Gunline Guilliman all day every day, Deep strike list, Calgar does seem like an interesting choice, than a cheap captain and lt for your backfield stuff.

Dont forget you can give a non-primaris Lt a jump pack so he can land alongside Calgar and the Termies.

[Igles]

I have success with Calgar in a Redeemer with three units of honour guard the chapter champion , chapter ancient, an apothecary and Cypher.

Pretty resilient and punchy charge.

[MayorDaley]

Great thread!

 

What would the optimized Calgar list look like?

 

Calgar deepstriking in with 1 big TDA unit? or 2/3 five man units?

 

Khonehunter mentioned podding in some Sternguard. Maybe load SG in a Stormraven and have Calgar and crew position off of that.

 

3 tac sqds in RBs for midfield.

 

2 Dev sqds with missile launchers and one lascannon.

 

Libby for some defense and smite.

 

Some real possibilities here. I could see this idea working.

 

Cheers

Edited September 6, 2017 by MayorDaley