Vesper Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 The characters in Black Legion are certainly just as evil. Khayon kills several of his former brethren through possessing one with a Lord of Change without blinking Dude, living as Khayon with all the stuff he has done to some of his brothers for the greater good of the Black Legion must be tough. I can't wait for that scene where he is forced to execute a close brother because the poor lad dared defy Moriana. Aaron, can you tell us what part of launching yourself in the Black Legion series was attempting to clarify who Abaddon really is ? Or was it the thrill of describing the workings of the Eye, or Chaos. Or even fleshing out the Black Legion itself. I know you've been quite concerned by how a part of the "community" got Abaddon wrong because he kinda was poorly represented in many of the sources that saw print to that point, so I really wanted to know, was it what motivated you to start the Black Legion series ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Anything can and does happen. Doesn't mean it should. We all had this argument about Guilliman before GS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Yeah it doesn’t really matter why just what happens and TBH Sigs would crush Abbadon as a Leviathan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 If Abaddon has truly reached Primarch levels by now as he should've, he ought to be capable of taking down a Leviathan (Russ and Mortarion have been depicted dismembering Contemptors without breaking much of a sweat) and Sigismund's special lethality would be brutally impeded by such a machine. Also, you're talking about the Templars desecrating the bones of their founder to raise an abomination - did I add that the only time anyone's been seen to resurrect someone from the bones up it was Erebus, and canon states the actual dead can never be revived with a Dreadnought? You speak irrelevancies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle captain corpus Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 So...just finished Black Legion... I enjoyed it immensely. Whether this is partly down to the subject matter and what I collect or down to it being a solid book?.... I think a little of both. The tying off of some plot lines and the seeding of more is handled well. The realisation of how the Imperium now see's the Traitors is wonderful also. My only small gripe was that in previous books I feel ADB has honed in and managed the comedy/comradeship/brotherhood feeling exquisitely. (Night Lords novels are perfect example of this.) Within Black Legion I felt this was toned down a little possibly? I'm talking of the throwaway lines etc that dot the NL books? It maybe just me. The concept of the Black Legion brotherhood is there throughout don't get me wrong. I just enjoy the "human" aspect that ADB inserts through his Astartes and in Black Legion it felt as though it was cranked from 11 to 10? But its head and shoulders above the standard fair of Bolter Porn pumped out by other authors. BCC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I'm hoping that we see some supporting players from the series used in other stories, especially as the end of the HH series frees authors up to do more. I've mentioned Vortigern before, but it'd be neat to see Telemachon (paging Chris Wraight) or Lheor pop up as villains elsewhere. The Iron Hands really deserve a Siege of Medusa novel to compensate for their shafting in the HH series, for my money. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Sweet, resurrect him so Abaddon can slay him all over again. Take his skull twice.Weak bait son. I'm disapoint.Sigismund is dead, just leave it be. Templars don't need to be Mary Sues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Now like I said the characters seem much too likable for me... often the dialog is akin to what Imperial Space Marines would say to each other IMO. What exactly do you expect Chaos Space Marines to say to each other? 'GREETINGS, BARGALARG, LORD OF DARKNESS,' screamed Chaos Marine 1, in the process of fondling a skull. 'HOW GOES THE WHOLESALE SLAUGHTER OF HUMANITY TODAY?' 'EXCELLENT BILBATROP, DEVOURER OF EBULLIENCE,' replied a Chaos Marine covered in so many horns he looked like a porcupine. 'I WAS JUST GOING TO EVISCERATE A THOUSAND VIRGINS BEFORE HEADING TO ISRAEL AND THROWING ROCKS AT BOTH PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELI CHILDREN.' 'STOP BEING FRIENDLY TO EACH OTHER,' said a third Chaos Space Marine, who had facial features roughly analogous to a dolphin. 'WE'RE THE BAD GUYS. BE MORE EVIL.' The reason why his anti-heroes are so popular is that they aren't depicted as evil caricatures of Loyalist Space Marines. Read between the lines. Khayon, Abaddon and the rest do horrific things in a fashion so casual it barely gets highlighted in the text; they don't view themselves as the villains. That casual acceptance of evil is precisely what makes them so incredibly diabolic. And as for the comradely, the Black Legion is literally built to provide the sense of brotherhood and purpose that these warriors had lost in the wake of the Heresy. Space Marines are still Space Marines, no matter the environment you place them in. Honestly with quality writing like that I had to make sure you weren’t ADB in disguise because that’s exactly how his novels read! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Oh yeah I forgot all about Gaunt... at one time he was like IG Jebus... was super annoying. "Personally I don't really understand the concept of author bias. If I'm writing something for money I'd want that something to be of the highest possible quality I can make it, and to appeal to as vast an audience as I can reach. " This is extremely idealistic IMO - some people will change this simply because they can. "The reason why his anti-heroes are so popular is that they aren't depicted as evil caricatures of Loyalist Space Marines." Sometimes it works well but like Khârn in Betrayer, no it is like ':cuss?'. Wait. You're telling me that Khârn in Betrayer doesn't talk like he should? How should he speak, then? I'm guessing you want his exchanges with Argel Tal to go more like: "And did it work?" "Yes Crimson Lord. Killing mothers and clogging my chainaxe with babies is mightily fun." Don't you understand the concept of a villain being inured to their own atrocities and how chilling that can be? It comes up in so much media. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Sweet, resurrect him so Abaddon can slay him all over again. Take his skull twice.Weak bait son. I'm disapoint.Sigismund is dead, just leave it be. Templars don't need to be Mary Sues. Responding in kind, the point was to be blatant about trolling, not serious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Every time someone writes Mary Sue another Black Legionnaire dies a horrid death. Look it the Red Scorpions - they have enshrined their Chapter Master in Leviathan dreadnaught armor - precedent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Culn was also dead for 9000 years right? You think abaddon did such a poor job ripping sig in half that he was still alive? After many hours of healing abbadon, compiling and transferring data, slaying witnesses, transferring ships, and then sailing through the warp to terra? And in all that time no one in the Black Legion realized "woops hes still alive"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 It’s fiction so anything can happen. There’s not much realism to be honest and stuff gets retconned all the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Nonsense. I just said that in many pieces of official literature, that inviolable rule is written. The dead, let alone the dead and decayed to the point of only a skeleton being left, cannot be interred in a Dreadnought. Likewise the Emperor cannot rise from His throne and the Tyrannids cannot be reasoned with. That level of wishful thinking really makes me think that you've drastically misunderstood the nature of this setting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 There are plenty examples such as Eldrad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 How so? Eldrad had a soulstone. Which in a Templar's book is xenos witchery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Read the fluff. I’m not saying or even implying this would hold for Sigs though... there’s many ways he could feasibly be brought back in a reasonable manner. I thought you said you were bowing out of this discussion by the way... not that I really care. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Isn't this wishthinking discussion worth of a separate thread while this one can go back to topic? Already 2+ pages of nagging between 3 or 4 people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Nagging indeed. If you can't talk about the topic in hand please reconsider your participation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338425-the-black-legion/page/58/#findComment-5024373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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