New Codex Incoming!

[Galron]

Not to start a separate argument but using regular marines as chaos marines is pretty common since 30k came out. Many of us have traitor legions that don't like spikes and silly chaos stuff or like to be able to switch back and forth between books. Absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as the weapons are correct, the models are the right size and the opponent knows what he is fighting. Ill be able to swap my IW for Silver Skulls to be able to have guard allies, the only thing I wont be able to use are my terminators, then again, I haven't been able to use half of them since 7th edition anyway(Tyrant termies).

 

But yes we will be able to swap around doctrines regardless of figures. A guard model is a guard model is a guard model. My Elysians are not the airborne drop troops but their ground pounder counterparts and their gunners are as highly trained as the airborne guys. It actually is in the Elysian fluff that every drop trooper has to spend two years in the ground army before volunteering for Drop troop duty. Just depends on what I feel like playing that day.

[Mitchverr]

I think its more the concern seeing things like adepticon where forgeworld units must be from forgeworld the company and not proxy, IE no using cadians/scions as elysians, no using the basalisk gun platform to proxy an earthshaker battery/carriage and so on that has the current door looking a lil worrysome. (so you must spend a couple grand on a DKoK army, not use 3rd party models for example)

 

Though on an individual setting and gaming club it wont be an issue, for those whom wish to go to bigger tournies in the future it might, depending on each groups personal mood.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Mitchverr

[CaptainMarsh]

I can see the worry if you were planning on heading into Adepticon or other major tournaments that might be more restrictive in this regard.

If you aren't however, then it should be no issue.

I like the Catachan stuff. Really excited about Mordia stuff though. Speaking of- the Ventrillan Nobles and Indigan Praefects look awesome. Any idea what kits they used for them?

[Toxichobbit]

 

If GW creates a line for each regiment, then yes it will be proxy. Worse, in tournament if you do not have the official models from GW for each of the potential new regiments, you will be proxying, which depending on the tourney, you could suddenly find your entire army ineligible to field. I'm not even talking third party models, I'm saying someone who played using Cadians, made up his own regiment, painted them up how he wanted them, but uses them in a way that more fits the rules playstyle of Catachan, cannot field his army as Catachans because he has Cadians instead.

 

 

GW don't have a line for each regiment though, so that's irrelevant.

 

The only regiment who have a complete line are Cadians, who are repeatedly, in multiple publications and articles put out by GW, noted as being widely replicated by non-Cadian regiments. Catachans have most of a line and are less generic, but there's still regiments out there that look very similar but aren't Catachan (off the top of my head Kanak Skulltakers, for example). Combined with the long standing rule for Marines that if your Chapter isn't one of the 7 represented by a Chapter tactic (or a known successor) you can choose which one to use, which is very likely to be replicated for Regimental Doctrines, it's safe to say that GW (and by extension, most TOs) are fine with you using whatever Regimental Doctrine you want for a DIY regiment.

 

Now if you've got basic Cadian/Catachan models painted in standard Cadian/Catachan colours with standard Cadian/Catachan markings, then I can understand some people and especially players at tournaments, having an issue when you use them as Valhallans. Technically, that is proxying. If you are using models painted as Ultramarines you don't just use the Raven Guard rules (well some people do, but I doubt many tournaments would support them). Same with Guard. The thing is though, how many people with DIY regiments do you think actually just use bog standard Cadians painted in bog standard Cadian colours with bog standard Cadian markings? None that I've ever seen. Every single one (and over the years, that's a lot) has been painted differently to GWs Cadian schemes and the majority have been converted. DIY players want to make their army unique and it's never just in their headcanon. It's 100% the same situation as when you face a Marine army that isn't specifically from one of the big 7 (or one of their successors) so you just check which Chapter Trait they are using.

[Tirak]

 

 

If GW creates a line for each regiment, then yes it will be proxy. Worse, in tournament if you do not have the official models from GW for each of the potential new regiments, you will be proxying, which depending on the tourney, you could suddenly find your entire army ineligible to field. I'm not even talking third party models, I'm saying someone who played using Cadians, made up his own regiment, painted them up how he wanted them, but uses them in a way that more fits the rules playstyle of Catachan, cannot field his army as Catachans because he has Cadians instead.

 

 

GW don't have a line for each regiment though, so that's irrelevant.

 

 

There are lines for the Cadians, Catachans, Tallarn, Mordians and Vostroyans off the top of my head.

[CaptainMarsh]

 

 

 

If GW creates a line for each regiment, then yes it will be proxy. Worse, in tournament if you do not have the official models from GW for each of the potential new regiments, you will be proxying, which depending on the tourney, you could suddenly find your entire army ineligible to field. I'm not even talking third party models, I'm saying someone who played using Cadians, made up his own regiment, painted them up how he wanted them, but uses them in a way that more fits the rules playstyle of Catachan, cannot field his army as Catachans because he has Cadians instead.

 

 

GW don't have a line for each regiment though, so that's irrelevant.

 

 

There are lines for the Cadians, Catachans, Tallarn, Mordians and Vostroyans off the top of my head.

 

They don't have lines for the Tallarn, Mordians, Vostroyans, or Steel Legion. They have a Troops choice and some select heavy weapons teams, not enough to make an army out of with options available.

[PliskinAJ]

Just throwing this out there for the whole use the correct line of model argument. 

Catachan command squad by GW rocks Cadian flak armor. 

 

I do agree though that if you have multiple regiments in your army they should have someway of marking which ones are which that stands out. 

[Tirak]

 

They don't have lines for the Tallarn, Mordians, Vostroyans, or Steel Legion. They have a Troops choice and some select heavy weapons teams, not enough to make an army out of with options available.

 

 

 

I just checked the GW website and the Vostroyans, Catachans, Cadians and Steel Legion have infantry, heavy weapons, commanders and special weapons. Vehicles are STC and so don't count for missing. So yeah, we've got 4 model lines all ready to roll.

[Toxichobbit]

 

There are lines for the Cadians, Catachans, Tallarn, Mordians and Vostroyans off the top of my head.

 

 

As the post above. I checked the Guard range on the GW store before I posted. They have models for them, but not lines. That is, unless you are fine with every Tallarn squad having a plasma pistol, plasma gun and missile launcher, no Rough Riders (though I think they're a gonner in this Codex tbh), no vehicle crew, no Officers, no other special weapons, no other heavy weapons, no vox-casters etc :p. Sure, you could get that one squad and convert, but there'd be so much work going into them you'd basically end up with a DIY regiment by default. Mordians, Valhallans, Tanith and Tallarn have one squad. Vostroyans and Steel Legion fare a bit better, with some seperate special weapons, heavy weapon teams and officers. Vostroyans even have a Command Squad. But calling either of them a complete line is disingenuous, as they don't have a number of special or heavy weapon options, no alternate options for Sergeants or Officers, no Master of Ordnance and in the case of Steel Legion no Medic or Standard. You'd have to be really stretching it to claim that these are even close to a complete line, as they require sourcing of parts and heavy converting to get just the basic options for an Infantry Squad, never mind the rest.

 

You're right that Catachan are actually more of less a complete line though, just missing a Catachan specific Master of Ordnance. I actually forgot they got access to the rest of the special weapons in the Command Squad. Not that it was hard to source replacements for their flamers ofc, but sourcing from another line still means the original was incomplete.

 

 

 

Also, I love that Catachan officer with the Cadian flak vest. Such a badass.

[Guardsman Bob]

If someone wants their vehicle to be from a particular world then they use the name from the decal sheet included or has GW stopped issuing these? I may be out of the loop on this.

[Toxichobbit]

The current vehicle transfer sheet (as per the last Russ I bought about 6 months ago) is copyright 2000, so fairly old. It has all the regiments that were around back then (so no Vostroyan or Tanith) and then some more, Ryza, Alpha and Turan. Never heard of two of those and isn't Ryza a Forgeworld?

 

Edit: and Necromunda.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Toxichobbit

[CaptainMarsh]

 

 

They don't have lines for the Tallarn, Mordians, Vostroyans, or Steel Legion. They have a Troops choice and some select heavy weapons teams, not enough to make an army out of with options available.

 

 

 

I just checked the GW website and the Vostroyans, Catachans, Cadians and Steel Legion have infantry, heavy weapons, commanders and special weapons. Vehicles are STC and so don't count for missing. So yeah, we've got 4 model lines all ready to roll.

 

All I see for the Tallarns are the single squad of infantry they have that comes with one specific heavy weapon. Vostrayans have more, but don't have access to all heavy weapons, same with the Steel Legion (who have even more poor choice of special weapons). So no, those aren't four model lines 'ready to roll'. The only model line ready to roll is Cadians, with Catachans being second. If someone is hard nosed about, say, Tallarns being the models and thus you must use their regiment at a tournament simply because of the models, then the Tallarn player is limited because of model range- not rules. And that is unfair, and it is why they do not have a line.

[Schlitzaf]

To be fair you can use plastic weapon Teams weapon models and the speciality regiments models to make the various heavy weapons you might desire in your list.

 

But yeah. There simply isn't that much. And I might be alone, but I would if we got new models, atleast give the speciality regiments fine cast, if they can't do plastic. Right now it's a chore to add weapons (Vostroyans of the speciality regiments are best off with, one kit or another having I think every special. Sniper, Grenade, Plasma and Flamer. Only lacking meltaguns).

[HenricusTyranicus]

That line at the end of the Catachan focus about the Mordian's special order is terrifying. A couple heavy weapons squads with autocannons or lascannons and an officer to order them could mulch up key characters of the enemy turn one. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

 

Speaking of- the Ventrillan Nobles and Indigan Praefects look awesome. Any idea what kits they used for them?

 

Mostly Genestealer Cult, Cadians and Tempestus parts. The Ventrillans also use Empire Pistolier heads.

[Captain_Krash]

Perhaps this is a sign that there going to start releasing the old metal guard again? Not just special order? Making rules in a codex for models that don't exist isn't GW's thing anymore. There may a solution if they just bring Mordians, Tallarns, Valhallens, and Vostroyans back into full production lines.

 

Krash

[CoffeeGrunt]

I doubt it, maybe in the future. They'd be making much more fanfare if we were about to see new models coming out.

[Captain_Krash]

True. I mean the Forgeworld Tallarns were seriously gorgeous probably even better looking than Death Korps or Elysians IMO, it would be nice to see 1995 guard models realized finally in epic plastic glory but we've been speculating that for 20 years...

 

Krash

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

 

Speaking of- the Ventrillan Nobles and Indigan Praefects look awesome. Any idea what kits they used for them?

 

Mostly Genestealer Cult, Cadians and Tempestus parts. The Ventrillans also use Empire Pistolier heads.

 

Think maybe we'll see some combined kits?

[Shamansky]

 

 

 

Speaking of- the Ventrillan Nobles and Indigan Praefects look awesome. Any idea what kits they used for them?

 

Mostly Genestealer Cult, Cadians and Tempestus parts. The Ventrillans also use Empire Pistolier heads.

 

Think maybe we'll see some combined kits?

 

Why sell one kit if you can sell three or four?

[NatBrannigan]

They have to be ranked up! THEY HAVE RO BE RANKED UP! I've never been so happy with a Guard codex and it hasn't even been released yet! Shame it's not a straight +1 to hit but still decent.

 

Leman Russ tanks just became amazing. If the points stay the same they're simply excellent now. They almost improved them too much though right?

[PliskinAJ]

New Mordian Leaks from the source. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/26/regiment-focus-mordian-sep26gw-homepage-post-2/

 

Very nice for the Russ. 

 

[gunnyogrady]

Depending on the amount of the points reduction, we could have Russes returning soon to a table near you.

 

I wonder if this will even put some of the variants on competitive tables? I'm thinking Punisher Russes, especially with Pask, Commanders, and Orders in some combination, could be nasty. Along with the "Hit on 5 and 6 in Overwatch" Stratagem, and possibly the Mordian Vehicle +1 to hit in Overwatch, you could seriously start to trouble some Alpha-Strike Assault armies with a wall of Punishers.

 

Could be interesting, and I suppose their competitiveness will now depend on the points drop.

[librisrouge]

I'm suddenly thinking that my Death Riders will be operating in support of quite a bit of armor.

[Tirak]

Grinding Advance makes the Conqueror Cannon and Battle Cannon and Punisher Russes clearly the favorites. The Conquerors because of the Coax are more useful to Battle Cannon Russes in most situations, though how long it will take for them to get the price buff will be interesting. Battlecannon Russes are snipers, not needing to move, and potentially 12 shots with the main gun alone doing a potential 36 wounds. Punisher Russ is obvious, 40 shots. My Punisher Vultures get 40 shots normal and it's nice. Toss it on Pask to hit on 2s and you've got a party.

 

Plasmacutioners fall behind because they're only going from potentially 3 shots to 6, topping out at 12 wounds. I don't see the use given that they are the same strength as the Battlecannon, and while AP-3 is fantastic, it's not worth losing 2/3s wounding potential in my opinion.

 

Vanquishers Annihilators go from 2 to 4 Lascannon shots, going up to 24 wounds. This is cool, but the BC Russ will be more reliable on most of your targets and much more flexible, though still an honorable mention.

 

Demolishers go from 3 to 6, or 6 to 12, putting out between 36 and 72 wounds depending on the number of models in the unit. This seems amazing, but honestly, the short range combined with the fact you must fire at the same target, I'm not sure it's worth it as you waste too much firepower in overkill as you only get the 72 damage on units with 5 or more models, i don't know of many that have more than 3 wounds and come in units of that size.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Tirak