New Codex Incoming!

[Shamansky]

I don't like what i read about the new codex.

They're nerfing conscripts, and as i understand the "changed to better reflect their inferior discipline" line, the nerf is going to be simple and stupid. Lazy bastards!

Doctrines, orders and stratagems are for 8 regiments only. Well... I don't know what to say really. Player-made regiments are pointed at the door.

Say your prayers gentlemen. Some of us are not going to make it in one piece into 8th edition. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Shamansky

[Sete]

Player made Regiments just use one of those 8 regiments rules. Choose one to reflect their way of fighting.

I might pick up my warthogs and use Steel Legion rules.

Mechanised Infantry (I assume)

Hopefully vets will have access to Carapace armour or else my Scions conversion will be useless.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Sete

[Cap'm Heckus]

Doom! DOOM!

 

No, but seriously, I'm excited. I've had no doctrines for the last decade and now we're starting 8th edition with 8. And I can just pick the one I feel like using for my home brew army? Yes, please.

 

We already do well this edition and now we're going to get strategims, more orders and doctrines that make different guard armies feel actually different. Can't be happier.

 

Also, the conscript nerf doesn't bother me in the least. If you wanna make them better, give them the old penal legion exploding collars from RT days. Those were fun.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Cap'm Heckus

[oldmanlee]

Yeah I'm super hyped for the new Dex can't say I sad about conscript getting a nerf as I never run them

Would like to see vets go back to troops chimeras get a points drop the same with valks

[CoffeeGrunt]

I do love how GW can give unique Stratagems, Relics, Orders and Abilities for eight regiments and people talk about it as a negative because GW didn't write custom rules for their own Snowflake regiment they wrote.

 

Just use the Regiment that best fits your own Regiment's playstyle. Counts-as. My guys have Ion Cannons and Drones for crying out loud, don't see me complaining that Gue'vesa are pretty much ignored. :P

[Toxichobbit]

I don't like what i read about the new codex.

They're nerfing conscripts, and as i understand the "changed to better reflect their inferior discipline" line, the nerf is going to be simple and stupid. Lazy bastards!

Doctrines, orders and stratagems are for 8 regiments only. Well... I don't know what to say really. Player-made regiments are pointed at the door.

Say your prayers gentlemen. Some of us are not going to make it in one piece into 8th edition. 

 

Eight regiments is more than Marines got, more than Ad Mech got and equal to what Chaos got. If you expected Guard would get much more than that or some kind of custom Regiment builder for player made regiments, that's your own fault for having unrealistic expectations. It didn't happen in any of the five Codexs released so far so it wasn't going to happen for Guard.

 

You have no idea what the change to Conscripts is, yet you've already assumed it's simple, stupid and lazy. The sky isn't falling yet, you are just assuming it is.

 

I thought Guardsmen were real soldiers, who's planets broke before they did. Not whiners like those heretics and xenos. Chin up lad, there's still the Emperor's work to be done.

[duz_]

Now now chaps! Lets take a deep breath and have a swig of recaff.

 

I can understand some might be frustrated with the potential changes coming in the codex or that things might left out.

 

Either way, lets not slide into making things personal. We want to save that energy so we may unleash it on the Emperors enemies!

 

Now carry on!

[FallenSoldiers]

I'm fine with the nerf to conscripts provided they give us some way if having infantry blobs again. Currently I can take 10 guardsmen who usually crumble like a wet napkin or up to 50 conscripts... who crumble just as easily but there are 50 of them. If I can take 50 infantry in a squad I'd do it and conscripts wouldn't see the light of day!!

[Shamansky]

 

Eight regiments is more than Marines got, more than Ad Mech got and equal to what Chaos got. If you expected Guard would get much more than that or some kind of custom Regiment builder for player made regiments, that's your own fault for having unrealistic expectations. It didn't happen in any of the five Codexs released so far so it wasn't going to happen for Guard.

 

You have no idea what the change to Conscripts is, yet you've already assumed it's simple, stupid and lazy. The sky isn't falling yet, you are just assuming it is.

 

I thought Guardsmen were real soldiers, who's planets broke before they did. Not whiners like those heretics and xenos. Chin up lad, there's still the Emperor's work to be done.

 

I'm not whining because conscripts are nerfed. I'm upset because only their lack of discipline is mentioned. Which means GW did not bother to think of tax variants. They simply made conscripts staying on table ability even weaker. The most plausible variant is change/cancellation of Commisars' influence on them. They will punish the Guard for someone else's fault. I'm not using conscripts so it doesn't really touches me much. I just hate injustice.

And as far as i remember doctrines did not made players buy specific regiment models. It did not matter how the guardsmen look. The Guard could be anything: shooty defence line, agressive melee fighters, surgical deep striking company of specialists or any mix of this. And they were the same dudes model-wise. Now my whole army becomes a proxy. Which honestly i'm not used to. I'm stuck with a couple of regimental options. Am I afraid of that? Hell no! I play Black Templars for nine years. All which bothers me here is possible inability to use all variety of tactics and strategies which used to be the Gaurd's best feature. Now it becomes the one of many single way armies.

[Vel'Cona]

As a player that prefers the hard-bitten, experienced Guardsmen attributed to "elite" regiments like Cadia/Mordia/etc., I prefer to stay away from "green" troops.  I can understand how certain players may enjoy this concept (Valhallans and Savlar make it very characterful) but I'd rather Conscripts not be the CLEAR choice for all IG armies.  They should be exactly what the background dictates: poorly trained "second-line" units that play second fiddle to the Infantry Squads that actually hold the line.  This, of course, is my personal opinion/view, though I hope it explains better why I'm most excited for the Conscript nerf above anything else in the codex :D

[PliskinAJ]

New info on what we can expect for the new armies. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/25/regimental-focus-catachan-sep25gw-homepage-post-2/ 

 

[Henimann]

New info on what we can expect for the new armies. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/25/regimental-focus-catachan-sep25gw-homepage-post-2/ 

 

 

Holy cow this looks awesome.  Fluffy and viable; bunch of meatheads that love firepower, and only listen to their own people.  Can't wait to see the rest of them.  

 

Where did you find this, Pliskin?  Don't see anything like this on the community site. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Henimann

[FallenSoldiers]

It's on the community site. They posted it to FB and there's a link in another thread in this forum! Totally legit

[PliskinAJ]

Posted the link right above the picture. :) 

 

Catachan also gets traps if they are charged in terrain costs a command point but very fluffy. 

[Tirak]

As a player that prefers the hard-bitten, experienced Guardsmen attributed to "elite" regiments like Cadia/Mordia/etc., I prefer to stay away from "green" troops.  I can understand how certain players may enjoy this concept (Valhallans and Savlar make it very characterful) but I'd rather Conscripts not be the CLEAR choice for all IG armies.  They should be exactly what the background dictates: poorly trained "second-line" units that play second fiddle to the Infantry Squads that actually hold the line.  This, of course, is my personal opinion/view, though I hope it explains better why I'm most excited for the Conscript nerf above anything else in the codex

Except they're not poorly trained. We've discussed this before, Conscripts have the same equipment and training as regular Guardsman, they're just not battlehardened yet. Read the Gaunt's Ghosts books, Caff's son Dalin serves in a conscript unit for a battle. They're not idiots, they just haven't fought in a real war yet. Dalin was trained by the Ghosts and he wasn't mentally prepared, but that's reflected in the BS/WS5 and the L4.

[Henimann]

Thanks!  Must've just gone up while I was on there.  Will wait to see the full codex before passing judgement, but I have to say, with the combination of the stratagems and the orders suggested in the article, I feel that they just might do the regiments justice with the rulesets.  The weapons reroll for tanks is BRUTAL - wyvern and bassie spam anyone? 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Henimann

[Tirak]

Thanks!  Must've just gone up while I was on there.  Will wait to see the full codex before passing judgement, but I have to say, with the combination of the stratagems and the orders suggested in the article, I feel that they just might do the regiments justice with the rulesets.  The weapons reroll for tanks is BRUTAL - wyvern and bassie spam anyone? 

Manticores my friend. All the manticores.

[FallenSoldiers]

Hellhounds too!

[librisrouge]

I'm just glad that Catachans didn't get some recycled Raven Guard doctrine.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I don't like what i read about the new codex.

They're nerfing conscripts, and as i understand the "changed to better reflect their inferior discipline" line, the nerf is going to be simple and stupid. Lazy bastards!

Doctrines, orders and stratagems are for 8 regiments only. Well... I don't know what to say really. Player-made regiments are pointed at the door.

Say your prayers gentlemen. Some of us are not going to make it in one piece into 8th edition. 

As a note, Chaos got a "Renegades" Legion Trait that was for any forces that didn't fit into the other specific ones. It was very fluffy overall for CSM. I expect a similar "If it doesn't fit the others, it goes here" Doctrine for Guard.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'm just glad that Catachans didn't get some recycled Raven Guard doctrine.

 

Yeah, seems they're putting effort into them. Here's hoping!

[gunnyogrady]

Those rules look great to me. Characterful, strong, and providing lots of opportunities for fluffy but playable builds. I especially like how it buffs Hellhounds and Scout Sentinels with Flamers, which have always been very "Catachany" to me. Even with their terrible WS, a unit of Catachan Conscripts could still dish out a big ol' chunk of S4 in assault. Combine that with some aura abilities, for example +1 attacks from a Ministorum Priest, and we're off to the races

 

I guess we'll have to see how the conscript nerf goes down. I've definitely got some faith in Gee Dubs at the moment, but then again I haven't been in the hobby as long as some of the 2nd/3rd/4th edition-ers around here.

 

Hopefully the other regiments are just as good: I wouldn't want them to show the best parts of the movie in the preview. Fingers crossed for Tallarn for my mobile light infantry!

Edited September 25, 2017 by gunnyogrady

[our_baz]

Looks like we're getting lots of options. 8 doctrines, various IG specific stratemums plus regiment specific ones too. I'd also wager regimental warlord traits/relics will appear too, in addition to 6 vanilla warlord traits too I'd expect. So much choice, one hyped guardsman here. Apologies if repeating earlier thoughts, 9 pages into this and my memory isn't what is was. Edited September 25, 2017 by our_baz

[Toxichobbit]

 

I'm not whining because conscripts are nerfed. I'm upset because only their lack of discipline is mentioned. Which means GW did not bother to think of tax variants. They simply made conscripts staying on table ability even weaker. The most plausible variant is change/cancellation of Commisars' influence on them. They will punish the Guard for someone else's fault. I'm not using conscripts so it doesn't really touches me much. I just hate injustice.

And as far as i remember doctrines did not made players buy specific regiment models. It did not matter how the guardsmen look. The Guard could be anything: shooty defence line, agressive melee fighters, surgical deep striking company of specialists or any mix of this. And they were the same dudes model-wise. Now my whole army becomes a proxy. Which honestly i'm not used to. I'm stuck with a couple of regimental options. Am I afraid of that? Hell no! I play Black Templars for nine years. All which bothers me here is possible inability to use all variety of tactics and strategies which used to be the Gaurd's best feature. Now it becomes the one of many single way armies.

 

 

I don't think a tax better. It may make Conscripts less likely to appear in non-Guard armies, which is good. but it doesn't address the root of the problem. Cheap, 50 man blobs that are immune to morale aren't good for the game. They're not good to play against and they're limiting to Guard players trying to build competitive lists. Add onto this that there is almost certainly a "Send in the next wave!" Stratagem that will let you recycle Conscripts, ala Cultists, and the problem only gets worse. Also we don't know that it'll affect Commissars yet. It might be a change to Conscripts where Commissars are less effective on them, so instead of only taking one casualty from morale, on Conscripts it might be that they can take one casualty to get a morale re-roll, or maybe reduce the amount of extra casualties from morale. Still useful but doesn't completely mitigate morale for them. We'll find out in a couple of weeks (if not before, it's a fairly hot topic so GW might address it in a preview). For now it's not worth getting any rustled jimmies, as we don't know the details yet and just have a vague bit of information that it affects Conscripts discipline*.

 

Unless I'm mistaken Guard haven't had any Doctrines since 4th edition. They didn't have them in 2nd or 3rd either (as far as I remember, can't find my 3rd ed Codex to check). So that's 5 out of 6 editions with nothing. It honestly boggles my mind that now Guard are finally getting them back and people are complaining because they aren't exactly what they wanted. Especially because the DIY stuff that you want for your own regiment has been gone from the game for three editions. I'm sure 4th was the last time there was any DIY stuff. At least it was for Guard and Marines. Again, you have unrealistic expectations. The writing was on the wall, no DIY stuff since 4th and no DIY stuff in any of five previous 8th ed Codexs. Guard were never going to be the army that broke the trend and got to customise Doctrines. Personally I'm just glad that Guard will once again be able to differentiate regiments and not just all be the same.

 

IMO, it's not proxying so I wouldn't get too hung up on it. Proxying is when you use a model to represent something it isn't, like using normal Marines as Chaos Marines. You won't be doing that, you're just following the rules for DIY regiments as written in the Codex, which will be use whatever Regimental Doctrine you like. It may seem strange, but this has existed in 40k for a long time for other armies. Remember, Guard regiments are very diverse, but often share similar gear. Cadia is a good example, with many non-Cadian regiments equipping themselves in a similar way. So you can use Cadian models with any Doctrine as while those non-Cadian regiments may equip themselves like Cadians, they won't necessarily fight like Cadians (eg, they probably don't have the experience fighting Heretic Astartes that Cadians will almost certainly have represented in some form). The same is true of any other Guard range. The Doctrines don't force you to use specific models anymore than Chapter Tactics force you to paint your models a specific colour.

 

*discipline doesn't even have to mean morale, it could also mean a change to their ability to use Orders, for example limiting which Orders they can benefit from. Granted, given that almost everyone who has a problem with Conscripts has an issue with their Morale mitigation, it's probably that, but we don't know yet.

[Tirak]

 

 

 

 

IMO, it's not proxying so I wouldn't get too hung up on it. Proxying is when you use a model to represent something it isn't, like using normal Marines as Chaos Marines. You won't be doing that, you're just following the rules for DIY regiments as written in the Codex, which will be use whatever Regimental Doctrine you like. It may seem strange, but this has existed in 40k for a long time for other armies. Remember, Guard regiments are very diverse, but often share similar gear. Cadia is a good example, with many non-Cadian regiments equipping themselves in a similar way. So you can use Cadian models with any Doctrine as while those non-Cadian regiments may equip themselves like Cadians, they won't necessarily fight like Cadians (eg, they probably don't have the experience fighting Heretic Astartes that Cadians will almost certainly have represented in some form). The same is true of any other Guard range. The Doctrines don't force you to use specific models anymore than Chapter Tactics force you to paint your models a specific colour.

 

*discipline doesn't even have to mean morale, it could also mean a change to their ability to use Orders, for example limiting which Orders they can benefit from. Granted, given that almost everyone who has a problem with Conscripts has an issue with their Morale mitigation, it's probably that, but we don't know yet.

 

 

If GW creates a line for each regiment, then yes it will be proxy. Worse, in tournament if you do not have the official models from GW for each of the potential new regiments, you will be proxying, which depending on the tourney, you could suddenly find your entire army ineligible to field. I'm not even talking third party models, I'm saying someone who played using Cadians, made up his own regiment, painted them up how he wanted them, but uses them in a way that more fits the rules playstyle of Catachan, cannot field his army as Catachans because he has Cadians instead.