Smbarne's Tactics and Hobby Log ( Updated 5/4 )

[duz_]

They're both amazing! Buy another and then you can build 1 of each! :D

 

Although for your first one a talon is certainly more versatile unless you have a lot of flyers in your meta then go the hawk.

[Buggane]

The meta i will be going into is pretty diverse, but i haven't seen a huge amount of tau and eldar (for flying tanks), and only a couple of flyers (a chap running two hemlocks!?). There is a bloke rocking magnus mind. I love the storm hawk model so i reckon the advice to get both is good....i'll just start with the talon for the flexibility

 

Edit - i didn't see Sanguinary Guardsman's post, if the maths says Stormhawk, and the Stormhawk looks more awesome then there's decision!

[Race Bannon]

I gotta admit, the Hawk does have Rule of Cool in the fine print.

[smbarne]

Hey there smbarne!

 

In regards to your list, ill toss up in 3 catagories:

 

Things I like:

 

Cheap Scouts, Shrike, Ven Dreads outfitted for ranged, Cheap/Effecient Lieutenants

 

Indifference:

 

Mismatched weapons in Devs, Stormhawks (vs Stormtalons)

 

Dislike:

 

Land Speeder Storms

 

Things I would change:

 

I would drop all the Storms - I say this as someone who just built and painted 2 right at the tail end of 7th. In my opinion they are far too fragile and create an exploitable weakness in the list. T5 with a 4+ Save dies VERY quickly to a variety of small arms and light AT weaponry (Heavy Bolters, Autocannons, Plasma, etc). The biggest thing I like about your list is the entire thing leverages the -1 to Hit, EXCEPT the Land Speeder Storms. In addition to that, most games you will be driving them up/out into the enemy (and their rapid fire/charge range), which means they inevitably will get hammered with those types of weapons best suited to eliminate it, and at a preferred target status. Land Speeders this edition just don't make a lot of sense (They're fast, but you don't want to move them due to the -1 BS, they're fragile but still rather expensive irrespective of that).

 

That all being said the model is pretty cool and fluffy, and there isn't a unit in the codex that is at such a lower level that by taking it you greatly diminish your chances of winning.

 

I also don't think 1-of combi-plasma's on scout sergeants are a great investment when you consider the amount of saturation you can bring to that firepower class. What I mean by that is, if you don't have enough of something, whatever you are paying for it feels prohibitively expensive. The inverse is true as well - if something is good, and you have a hefty chunk of it, sometimes it doesn't feel like it matters what it costs (See: Grav-Cannons in 7th Ed). Given the movement/screening/harassing role of the scouts, I think you will find trouble in trying to use those combi-plasmas in a way that allows you to concentrate fire and eliminate targets.

 

With the 450 points freed up, I would consider multiple things. I agree with duz that a couple more units of scouts to screen/score would be good. I think a small unit of Vanguard Vets with Lightning Claws to do their thing alongside Shrike would be fluffy. If you were to do that, I would add another cheap captain to babysit the firebase. The scout bike units seem very points efficient that SG mentioned as well. Also a kitted Stormraven hauling 2 5-man Tactical Squads to drop off and cap objectives is in the neighborhood of ~450 points as well.

 

I would run your JP Lieutenant as either Teeth of Terra/Storm Bolter, or Chainsword/Primarch's Wrath.

 

All in all, I like the list. If you do choose to go with Land Speeder Storms, I look forward to seeing how you paint them. Mine currently feel uninspired. 

 

Great points!

 

I'm not surprised, I do agree myself.  Unfortunately, Land Speeder Storms don't look too good this edition.  They're just pointed too high and that 4+ save is rough.  I'm hoping maybe I can play a few games with folks that agree to let me proxy them to get a feel for them.  But they are the heart of the list :(.  I really wish speeders got chapter tactics as well!

 

A StormRaven with some obsec troops in it would likely be better.  Or heck, even playing as Raptors and letting Issodon drop some in for "free" would also.  The hard part there is it strips the list of any disruption or decently chaffy units.

 

VV with LC would also probably be just as good.  I worry about the lack of obsec and their fragility as well.  I keep trying to run VV this edition with limited results so far at least.  I just need to figure out how to run them I think.

 

The missile launchers in the devs were for horde armies, though I haven't tried 'em out yet.  I've heard good things about having that frag or krak option in multiple games where you might face Russ spam or a horde of orks.

 

Maybe I'll start the list by running more scouts with the VV since I don't even have any storms and go from there.

 

You are constantly -1 to hit, but I guess the hope is that the Interceptor rule (which gives you +1 when shooting at units with Fly) helps offset that. Plus the Skyhammer and Icarus Stormcannon have an additional +1.

 

To me the Stormhawk is strictly an Air to Air choice, but it is more durable than the Stormtalon, so there is that. I am curious if OP has played both variants.

 

Stormhawks are... interesting.  One of annoying products of playing with them is doing the modifier dance every time.  Example:  I'm shooting at another flier with hard to hit with rerolls from Shrike.  Ok, that's BS 3+ with +1 for Interceptor and +1 for my Skyhammer, but -1 for Hard to hit and -1 for heavy weapons and moving.  So I'm hitting on 3+ rerolling, cool.  Except with the Lastalon and Assault cannons I'm hitting on 4's rerolling 1's and 2's due to the reroll mechanics.  But what if I'm shooting a ground target with this weapon, and a <FLY> unit with this weapon without hard to hit, and ... you get the picture.

 

Versus Stormtalon's they're a bit of a toss up.  I think they look cooler and I have been enjoying their pluses:

 

 - Hard to hit, T7 with 3+ save, and rerolling 1's makes them pretty tough vs small arms and medium arms fire ( looking at you assault cannons )

 - My preferred loadout is about 4 points less than a talon ( lastalon, assault cannons, skyhammer ) but has more weapons

 - I almost *always* face something that has something with <FLY>.  So far Deamon Princes with wings, Heldrakes, and Storm Ravens have all been shot down.  And it's *decent* versus ground

 - They look cooler* (YMMV)

 

Minuses:

 - You have to move.  This makes your heavy weapons dumb and planning your movement very unforgiving.  With a StormTalon you can always drop into hover move near a character and get that sweet, sweet 2+ with rerolls versus ground.

 - No bonuses versus ground means if there isn't any air you're hitting on 4's and that's so-so.

 - Lastalon is 24", two lascannons is much longer range.

 

In the end, I built my Stormhawks instead of talons because they look cool.  But I'd like to add at least one talon and make an Air Wing from it.

[smbarne]

Well after a little addition was made to our family, the Raven Guard haven't seen much attention.  Lately I've finally been able to squeeze in some time here and there.  My goal is to get things painted that I already have or have in mediocre condition.  So I've recently worked on two missile devs, five more scouts, two venerable dreads, and *finally* trying to finish my five man Mor Deythan / Sternguard squad.

 

Ven Dreads.  The twins.  The one on the right is my original metal dread from when I started ~15 years ago.  Resprayed and repainted for new glories.

 

Sternguard are about 60% done.  Three of them need highlighting and weathering.  All of the weapons are magnetized though - I had to green stuff their shoulders to get them just a little bit wider to hold modern weaponry!

 

 

Scouts **plus** a converted up RG themed Lias Issodon for when I decide to run Raptors on the table because he is such a beast.  The Cypher model is so cool, I've ended up with about three of them.  They're all about 60% done.  Highlights, weathering, and more details needed.  But they're tabletop ready at least.

 

 

All together now:

 

 

This puts me at 15 scouts that I'd be happy to run.  I've got five without cloaks but I haaaate those models.  I prefer to convert the sniper scouts and run them without the cloaks in game.

Lastly, I'm pretty happy with how the resin Secret Weapons Miniatures base turned out for the dread:

 

[Race Bannon]

Dude, dude, more angles on Lias because ... Awesome idea!

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Excellent work on the Dreadnoughts. Is that a Cypher model converted into a Raven Guard, or is Cypher disguising himself and infiltrating the Sons of Corax for... reasons?

[WAR]

Great stuff man may have steal that cypher conversion for my Lias mk ii

[duz_]

Converted up Cypher looks awesome!

Of course the other stuff look great too!

 

Congrats on the new addition. :)

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

+1 requesting angles of the Cypher to Lias conversion

 

As an owner of that metal dread as well, I recognized it immediately from the cluster of purity seals on the hull, good stuff!

[NiceGuyAdi]

You’re far more productive post little one than me. And Mor Deythan as Sternguard... how have I never seen or considered that before. Yes!

[Race Bannon]

I know, right?  I mean, duh!

[Valaas]

Great minds think alike, great to see someone else converting Mor Deythan as Sternguard, I also use Dark Furies as my Vanguard Vets.

 

Great work, looking forward to seeing more, fellow member of the 4th company.

 

Cheers,

Valaas

[smbarne]

Dude, dude, more angles on Lias because ... Awesome idea!

 

You got it! After I do some more work on him :).  Maybe in a week or two.... **tease**

 

Excellent work on the Dreadnoughts. Is that a Cypher model converted into a Raven Guard, or is Cypher disguising himself and infiltrating the Sons of Corax for... reasons?

 

... Yes ...

 

---

 

Thanks all!  I'm pretty happy when I realized that a ton of my RG troops have cloaks of some form ( sternguard, scouts, captians / Lts / Lias ).  It seems like a way to help break of power armor outlines.  Rule of cool and all.

 

I'm actually going to head to a small 1k tournament tomorrow and I'm pretty pumped.  The missions look good, and a number of them have objectives in aggressive positions worth more that encourage obsec and movement.  That said, I don't know if I've played a single 1k game that didn't end in a tabling.

 

I'm torn on my list to bring.  I think I want to use the list that has most of the stuff I've painted recently, but I'd also like to not get stomped.  Thoughts on them below?

 

List A - Dreads, scouts, and lias bomb with grav cannons

 

Battalion

Lias

Lt w/ pistol and chainsword ( probably teeth of terra )

3x  5 man Scouts with bolters

5 man Sternguard

2x Ven Dreads w/ twin Las and Missile Launcher

1x Devastator squad with 3x grav cannons, 1x heavy bolter, 1x cherub

 

List B - Razorbacks and Lias bomb with las

 

Battalion

Lias

Lt. with MC Boltgun and Chainsword ( probably teeth of terra ) 

 

1x 5 man scouts with bolters

2x 5 man tacticals with combi plas and plasma gun

1x 5 man sternguard

1x 5 man dev squad with 4 lascannons and a cherub

2x Razorbacks with twin assault cannons and hunter killer missile

 

List C

 

Battalion

 

Captain with MC boltgun, power sword, armor indomitus

Lt w/ MC boltgun, chainsword

3x 5 man scouts

2x 5 man devs with 2x missile launchers and 2x lascannons and a cherub

2x Stormhawks with lastalon, 2x heavy bolters, 2x assault cannons

 

----

 

The first list is the most interesting, but I fear least competative.  Everything is -1 to hit, but it lacks mobile objective taking and some durability and maybe horde clear depending on the frag missiles.  The Lt, stern, and devs go with Lias.

 

The second list is likely the most competative.  With Lias you can get it to just 3 drops.  It's got obsec in transports, but man razorbacks are boring.

 

The third list is pretty fluffy ( scouts and fliers! ) and probably has some teeth.  But I worry about getting tabled via killing the fliers and a 4'x4' board.  It also lacks mobile obsec.  It's strategy is straightforward though.  Bubble wrap the devs, put the cap and lt in the middile, let the fliers go snipe things.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I agree with your assessment that List B is the strongest, but I think all 3 are serviceable lists, and I think it ultimately comes down to meta.

 

Typically 1k events are intended to be more casual/friendly and not competitive from a list building perspective, so if thats what you expect I think youll be fine. However if someone starts squeezing 2 super heavies into a 1k list, you're going to have issues for sure.

[smbarne]

Ask and you shall receive, Race!

 

Finished Lias:

 

 

 

I also finished my Ironclad Ebay Resuce as well as added some weapon options to The Twins.  Magnetizing the pewter dreadnought was a major pain.

 

Here they are about to drop a dope beat for their next album, Death to Heretics.

 

 

With their options:

 

 

I also magnetized the missiles

 

 

----

 

Back to the earlier games!  I ended up taking the more competitive but more boring list and went 2-1.  I lost the person who got 1st as well who was honestly quite a better player than myself.  The Razorbacks pulled their weight as expected.  The Sternguard were really nice for their points as well, utilizing their two attacks to kill some Brimstones in combat even.  I will say that every army I faced had their variant of the -1 to hit ( and darn Eldar Rangers were -2 ).  So Space Marines with heavy weapons moving is super tough as the minuses really rack up and you can't reroll them due to the modifier shenanigans.  Lias was a beast as well.  Whatever he points at just dies with that Str 5, -4, D3 dmg.

 

I'll post up a few post game details in a bit.

[Race Bannon]

:wub: in that Astartes kinda way ... you know?

[Firepower]

Never woulda thought to do that with Cypher.  Clever :tu:

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Your use for Cypher's model is far better than Games Workshop's. (Filthy traitor doesn't deserve such a beautiful model.) Excellent work on the Dreadnoughts as well.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

First rate stuff.  Do us all a solid and paint up a really battered land raider.  

[smbarne]

Hey all, I've got a game this weekend vs a Guard / Marine player who wants to practice for a tournament.  FAQ and beta rules are in effect.  So I'm looking for advice on building a list that'll give him a run for his money.  I've got three variants so far:

 

List One: Raven Guard Delayed Drop

 

**Battalion Detachment**

 

+ HQ +

Captain: Chainsword, Jump Pack, Storm bolter, *Teeth of Terra*

Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

 

+ Troops +

2x Intercessor Squad

1x Scout Squad w/Boltguns

 

+ Fast Attack +

2x Inceptor Squad: Plasma Exterminator

 

+ Flyer +

2x Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

 

**Vanguard Detachment**

 

+ HQ +

Kayvaan Shrike

 

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad: 6x Aggressors w/ Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Vanguard Veteran Squad: 4x Twin LC. 1x Chainsword & Storm shield

2x Venerable Dreadnought: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

 

Plan: SftS Shrike, Aggressors, Lt, VV.  VV try to jump the screen and tie things up.  Aggressors clear the screen with shrike / lt support.  Stormtalons fly up to central buff circle and help.  T2 Inceptors + Captain drop after the screen is clear.

 

List One: IssoBomb v1 Post FAQ

 

**Battalion Detachment**

 

+ HQ +

Lias Issodon

Lieutenant: Chainsword, Jump Pack, Master-crafted boltgun

 

+ Troops +

3x Scout Squad w/Boltguns

 

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad: 6x Aggressors w/ Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Sternguard Veteran Squad: 10x w/ Special issue boltgun

Vanguard Veteran Squad: 4x Twin LC. 1x Power Sword & Storm shield

 

+ Flyer +

2x Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Typhoon missile launcher

 

**Spearhead Detachment**

 

+ HQ +

Captain: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer, *Raven's Fury*

 

+ Heavy Support +

3x Devastator Squad: Armorium Cherub, 1x Heavy Bolter, 1x Missile Launcher, 2x Lascannon

 

Plan: SftS Aggressors up, Sternguard mid, Captain and VV up.  Lias + Devs + Lt in Deep strike.  Drop them in my deployment T1 and use hellfire / flakk missile with armorium cherub each turn with rerolls.

 

List One: IssoBomb v2 Post FAQ

 

**Battalion Detachment**

 

+ HQ +

Lias Issodon

Lieutenant: Chainsword, Jump Pack, Master-crafted boltgun

 

+ Troops +

2x Intercessor Squad

1x Scout Squad w/Boltguns

 

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad: 6x Aggressors w/ Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Vanguard Veteran Squad: 4x Twin LC. 1x Chainsword & Storm shield

Ironclad Dreadnought: Dreadnought chainfist, 2x Heavy flamer, Ironclad Assault Launchers, Dreadnought combat weapon

2x Venerable Dreadnought: Twin lascannon, Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter

 

**Spearhead Detachment**

 

+ HQ +

Captain: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer, *Raven's Fury*

 

+ Heavy Support +

3x Devastator Squad: Armorium Cherub, 1x Heavy Bolter, 1x Missile Launcher, 2x Lascannon

 

Plan: SftS Aggressors, Captain and VV up.  Lias + Devs + Lt in Deep strike.  Dreads in the midfield.  Ironclad pops smoke for T8 -2 to hit distraction carnifex.

[smbarne]

So I ended up going with list 1.  My opponent was a soup of AM and Salamanders Space Marines.  His list was something like:

 

A couple of commanders and a few AM Primaris Psychers.  Relic of cadia and the pistol with command point harvesting in here.  Warlord had command point harvesting as well.

Something like 5 or 6x 10 man infantry squads with plasma and mortars mixed in

3x 3 man mortar teams

2x calvary units with plasma

3x elesians dropping in with plasma

2x 5 man sniper squads

1x Bassilisk

1x Leman Russ with Battle Cannon Turret and 2x Plasma Sponsons

1x Scout Sentinel

 

1 SM captain, jump pack, teeth of terra

1 SM Lt, jump pack, power first, armor indomitus

3x Devs with cherubs, plasma cannons, missile launchers, Lascannons, and Heavy Bolters mixed throughout

3x Scouts, one with Heavy Bolter

 

---

 

So, he had something like 20 command points, and with all of the command points he got back, probably used between 30-35 in the game 0_0.  It was a veritable horde of infantry, which isn't what I was expecting with AM.

 

We played Maelstrom and did the one where you get 6 cards, then 5, etc.

 

I put Shrike, the Lt, The Aggressors, and VV in SftS.  The Inceptors and Captain went in Deep strike.  The plan was to clear chaff with the Aggressors then deep strike close to valuable things with Plasma.

 

Since he had three scout squads to my one, he was able to severely limit my deployment options outside of my deployment zone ( mistake one on my part ).

 

My opponent won the roll to go first and I didn't seize.  Then he *gave* me first turn to see how it would go because he's a boss.

 

I brought the aggressors, shrike, and Lt in midfield on the left flank.  The vanguard vets also started there and moved in 12".  The talons moved up 20" to be in the big 'ole SM reroll bubble as well.  The dreads moved out of LOS blocking cover and popped Wisdom of the Ancients. After a bunch of dice rolling I cleared the Basilisk, one dev squad, something like 3-4 infantry squads. One also failed morale and two others used CP to pass ( an AM strat and the generic one ).  I got his Leman Russ down to 6 wounds left so it was degraded as well.  A decent start.

 

His turn one went as I expected as well.  The Cadian "Overlapping Fields of Fire" means he could plink a wound off something then everything else rerolls for days.  The Relic of Cadia was uncovered and all the officers did various reroll orders to mortars etc.  The Leman Russ also had a strategem popped to repair it one wound, then the psyker gave it -1 to hit and +1 save.  Likewise something gave my Aggressors ignore cover.  The Aggressors in cover were the first thing to go ( as expected, they draw a lot of fire ).  My Intercessors got some fire, but were stubborn.  one squad of Elesians dropped in his deployment zone to plasma my VV.  One of my Talons got dropped to two wounds as well thanks to double firing Salamanders Flakk missiles and other things.   Bob, my storm shield red shirt, bossed it and saved 5 3++ saves.  ( Bob would later on further be a champion of the Imperium ).  The scout sentinel charged the VV to keep them occupied and got knocked to 1W left. The problem for me was that he still had so much infantry and scouts that everything spread out and had tons of board control.

 

T2 I had to keep my Inceptors and Captain in reserve.  There just wasn't anything within 18" of where I could drop worthwile.  I wasted all of my dread shots on the Leman Russ and failed to hit/wound with 4 Las shots and 2 missiles with the Wisdom of Ancients too.  I cleared out some more infantry / calvary and the Elesians while one Talon had to drop into hover ( keeping both in range of Shrike ).  I left a few units in poor positions in order to get a Maelstrom 3 + d3 card, so the Lt ate it next turn.  Bob, the storm shield and chainsword fellow felled the Sentinel!

 

T2 for my opponent saw his lead start to form.  His captain and Lt took out a dread and consolidated into the other one, making it a paper weight.  The Lt in the open died to plasma.  That darn Battle Cannon Leman Russ took out more things and one of my Intercessor squads was starting to be overwhelmed in bodies.  Both Talons fell this round as well ( Flakk + Leman I think ).

 

T3 I dropped the Inceptors and Captain combo on my side of the board hiding from the two Salamander dev squads I hadn't been able to touch thanks to the insane bubble wrapping.  I only managed to kill a scout squad and the Lt thanks to the Armor Indomitus.  One guy also blew himself up.  Shrike and the VV charged valiantly towards the enemy to get a few Maelstrom cards and cleared out a few more squads and that blased psyker.

 

T3 for my opponent and the Teeth of terra guy plus the two Elesian squads dropping in did work on the Inceptors and Captain - one Inceptor on 1W was left.  Shrike and the VV were blown away by the Leman and Devs.  I'd like to note that as Bob gave his life for the Emperor, he had killed 5 guardsmen, 1 Scout Sentinel, and saved approximately 8 AP -3 wounds for his brothers.  He'll be getting a purity seal.

 

At this point, it was cleanup time.  The last Intercessors were teeth of terra'd and my dread attempted to hide but was shot by the Leman Russ.  I was tabled on Turn 5 right before the game could have ended.  It think it was 16-17 Raven Guard to AM/Salamanders in the end.

 

---

 

It was a good gave with a great opponent, but man.  I've been tabled my last *six* 2k point 8th edition games.  I'm sure a good bit of it is my generalship but I'm really struggling having pure Raven Guard compete in 8th after all the other codex's have dropped.  Both shooty ( Guard and Alaitoc ) as well as assault ( pre-FAQ ) Tyranid bombs, Blood Angels, and 90+ Nurgle Daemon armies have tabled or *nearly* tabled me by time.

 

In this game I should have prioritized the Leman Russ higher earlier on.  I could have also ignore more infantry to try and pry the dev's out of cover but my list lacked long range firepower outside of las/missiles.  The post-FAQ attempt to clear chaff T1 and drop T2 was a big failure against tons of guardsmen *with* scouts to support.  That said, plasma is such a huge counter to Primaris and I've noticed a lot of armies with autocannons / necron destroyers / other high ROF D2 weapons wiping them well.

 

I think I'll have to retire the Inceptors.  Post FAQ thier range with the deep strike nerf really kills them.  Hellblasters with SftS seem a likely ( if boring and less maneuverable ) option.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Great batrep and a good effort!

 

I think that this match up demonstrates how multi-faction Imperium lists leverage different components to be competitive.

 

Basically if you ended up cutting 2-3 of your poorly performing units and replaced them with a Guardsman CP Battery detachment, I think you would have found this match up much closer.

 

Its difficult to council fighting fire with fire, but unfortunately with the state of Space Marine points costs being what they are (anything with a Tactical marine base is simply overpriced), there really is little to no other options to compete at that level without either bringing in another faction or tailoring your list against that one list (which would prove counter-intuitive to the tournament ideology).

 

Things like Shrike, the Stormtalons, and Vanguard Veterans you will find challenged to return their points back in kills, and be very weak to return fire.

 

The other alternative is to attempt to out range your opponent, and in engage in trading in a shooting war at a distance, attempting to leverage our Chapter Tactics as much as possible. I personally find that play style boring and un-engaging. However, it is effective (and can be mono- Raven Guard).