Ideally...how many HH books to cover the Siege?

[bluntblade]

The Emperor is still a mystery to me, in many ways. We know better about HIs intentions, but then the point has been thunderously made about just how unknowable He is.

[karden00]

Don't fugging say things like that

[HeritorA]

3 books, a closing trilogy to match the opening, one for each loyalist legion. It is a massive affair, but this is still a single battle we're talking about.

 

1 for the Khan, by Wraight of course. 1 for Sanguinius, hopefully ADB. 1 For Dorn and the final battle, fingers crossed for Abnett.

 

Various traitor legions can be sprinkled throughout, with several warcouncils with both Horus and Daddy E to give an idea of the wider battle. Sons of Horus could share the last book focus with the Fists, with Abaddon leading Siggy on a merry chase.

 

I agree an epilogue and an anthology would also be warranted.

 

Splendid thoughts. As for the anthology - I will tell the same. Anthologies should be made only after the end. It is enough of anthologies as it is. Let's get to the finish and then we can proceed with describing of 'an in that time at another corner...' yada yada.

 

 

Abnett has been out of the loop for so long...I'm a little nervous about him handling the final book.

 

I would prefer Wraight and ADB to co-authour if possible

 

Without disrespect to mentioned authors and co-authoring - there is a very small amount of examples where co-authoring actually work. It depends on a lot of factors - mainly on the same schedule and mental disposition of both authors, their equal knowledge of the material and ability to unite the dots. So far in BL history where were only 2 examples of that kind. And both failed - in my opinion.

 

All solid ideas above and would be happy with either a trilogy or quintology with some additional anthology for loose ends.

 

There would be something poetic about Abnett writing the last novel. He started it all, he set up various plot threads so he can be the one to resolve them rather than leaving it to some other poor schmuck LOL

 

Indeed - Abnett has started it all. He should finish it- the last words as I mentioned before should be: 'I was where the day Horus killed the Emperor'.

But that goes only for the consistency factor. Because in general I fully agree with Dark Chaplain that Abnett is great then building the beginning - but always failed to deliver the appropriate ending. And at the same time I do agree with Roomsky that Abnett style, prose and character is beyond compare - so far only Wraight is getting close.

But again - if Abnett would have fixed his problem with 'writing' solid endings for the stories - he would have been an invincible on writers Olympus.

 

 

Which Primarchs were you thinking of? I'm hoping AD-B gives Sanguinius that extra dimension in a full portrayal.

 

I'm still trying to find that user who declared that Wraight ruined Jaghatai and the Scars in general.

Where was a person who declared that Wraight ruined Scars? What?

 

Speaking of Emperors Children and Night Lords terror campaigns...

How cool would it be to see those two legions doing their terror campaigns on Terra only to find themselves up against the full, unleashed fury of The Khan and his Scars? I know that PoH dealt with Scars and Emps Children, but that story didn't seem to want explore a full scale legion vs legion as much as it did show what a legion being nullified looked like.

To see the Scars turning the tables on a legion (possibly two?) who had opted to focus on culling and enslaving Terra's mortals would be a really cool thing to see.

 

Kind of against the lore it goes. Cause Scars was massively engage at the Lion spaceport versus Death Guard.

 

If there's an opportunity to make money you can bet said money that the Siege will be strung out and flogged like a flogged thing being dragged through flogged-ville by a flogger.

 

Thought so myself - but then we get A D-B comment:

 

 

If there's an opportunity to make money you can bet said money that the Siege will be strung out and flogged like a flogged thing being dragged through flogged-ville by a flogger.

 

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think. 

 

 

A D-B a question then - in the previous events a lot of us asked/told that HH will be running till ideas will end up (Laurie) and with the end not until the 2020 for sure. So what kind of 'lot faster han many people think' do you mean?

 

Corswain

After the end please. Or it would be the same milking as it went from title 15 to title 37.

'One main novel, lots of short stories and novellas.' -  plus reprints and LE , that's exactly what ruined schedule and expectation for HH for a lot of people in 2012-2016.

[Mellow]

 

 

If there's an opportunity to make money you can bet said money that the Siege will be strung out and flogged like a flogged thing being dragged through flogged-ville by a flogger.

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think.

Well I'm hoping "The Siege" is going to be 1-2 novels. I'm not hoping for lots like some people are. It needs to be well written and concise to close off the HH arc. Otherwise the lines between the HH and presumably the "scouring arc" will be too blurred.

[DukeLeto69]

I still think Abnett is by FAR the best writer writing for BL. He is in a league of his own. Yes he has flaws but as said above his world building, prose, plots and crazy ideas are just better than anyone else. Yes ere are examples of rushed endings but I would argue it is NOT as prevalent as others seem to think. The biggest guilty books on that front are Unremembered Empire and Titanicus but having just re-read the entire Gaunts Ghosts series it is not a criticism that can be levelled there (13 books).

 

Prospero Burns was a patchy affair but to be fair it was written at the point when Abnett was diagnosed with epilepsy and he was figuring out how to manage it.

 

How anyone can not put him on the top of the pile though when he has Horus Rising, Legion, Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Gaunts Ghosts, Double Eagle to his name I just don't know.

 

So for me he SHOULD write the last numbered book for HH (but yes he needs to bring his A game to that one and not have a competing deadline for another publisher he has to hit or have any page restrictions on him).

[helterskelter]

I want a one thousand page novel. Every author that has ever written for heresy gets a segment.

I also want the book anointed with the blood of one innocent and one actual heretic. Because reasons.

[Indefragable]

I want a one thousand page novel. Every author that has ever written for heresy gets a segment.

I also want the book anointed with the blood of one innocent and one actual heretic. Because reasons.

Anything less will disappoint and there will be much gnashing of teeth...but HeritorA, surprisingly, will actually like it.

[Petitioner's City]

My question is 'what is the siege'? Tallarn is a huge event, yet it is not the traditional story which is the focus of French's series of stories on it. Could the same occur with the Siege?

 

Also has the series really prepared us for the Siege? How well do we know the Sons of Horus, the Death Guard, the Solar Auxilia & army, & even major imperial forces like the Blood Bagels and to an extent the Fists? More so, the main characters - Horus (or rather the Horus recalled more and more in the Black Legion books), or Sanguinius, or the other chaos primarchs, Kalbor, and those marines who were key in the choas legions - the protagonists and participants of the early novels who featured because in a smaller heresy, theie early focus would form.the frame to later tragedies.

 

I am worried by the new race to Terra, because I like the much wider focus, and it feels like things are being tied off or just ignored. But it also feels like the protagonists of the heresy kind of vanished, or shifted, and the key ones - Horus, his initial brothers, his generals and his civilian and administrative allies - have become too opaque.

 

I hope.not though.

 

But to answer the question, how many books. I don't know - a lot :D

[b1soul]

Blood Bagels sound delicious

[DukeLeto69]

BLOOD BAGELS made me LOL LOL LOL

 

If that was deliberate it was really funny. If it was autocorrect that is even funnier!

 

"Sanguinius & Sons Family Baker"

[Petitioner's City]

I may have deliberately kept the mistake ;)

[JH79]

 

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think. 

I think this is possibly the second or third time that Mr D-B has dropped this little nugget of info... I can't help but worry that BL might be rushing things a little?

 

As many have said the Siege could be one of the most complex stories to tell and all the planning in the world will not get it right for everyone. A trilogy could work, thats what, roughly 240k words give or take?

 

Personally I'd like 2 trilogy's (1 for the traitors & 1 for the loyalists) by 6 authors released between roughly 2019 > 2020... plenty of room to flesh out characters, tie up loose ends, lay foundations for future stories and give each author a moment in the limelight of Terra's darkest hour... in no particular order; Abnett, A D-B, French, Wraight, McNeill, then a toss up between Haley or Swallow (because of Garro / The Sigillite / Titan).

[HeritorA]

 

I want a one thousand page novel. Every author that has ever written for heresy gets a segment.

I also want the book anointed with the blood of one innocent and one actual heretic. Because reasons.

Anything less will disappoint and there will be much gnashing of teeth...but HeritorA, surprisingly, will actually like it.

 

 

you think :)

 

Blood Bagels sound delicious

 

And delightful too :)

 

 

 

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think. 

I think this is possibly the second or third time that Mr D-B has dropped this little nugget of info... I can't help but worry that BL might be rushing things a little?

 

As many have said the Siege could be one of the most complex stories to tell and all the planning in the world will not get it right for everyone. A trilogy could work, thats what, roughly 240k words give or take?

 

Personally I'd like 2 trilogy's (1 for the traitors & 1 for the loyalists) by 6 authors released between roughly 2019 > 2020... plenty of room to flesh out characters, tie up loose ends, lay foundations for future stories and give each author a moment in the limelight of Terra's darkest hour... in no particular order; Abnett, A D-B, French, Wraight, McNeill, then a toss up between Haley or Swallow (because of Garro / The Sigillite / Titan).

 

 

Again - if you think that it will end 'soon' in the next year or so - you are sorely mistaken. From events alone we know it will go past 2019.  So the end is nowhere near as 2020.

[Tymell]

 

 

 

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think. 

I think this is possibly the second or third time that Mr D-B has dropped this little nugget of info... I can't help but worry that BL might be rushing things a little?

 

As many have said the Siege could be one of the most complex stories to tell and all the planning in the world will not get it right for everyone. A trilogy could work, thats what, roughly 240k words give or take?

 

Personally I'd like 2 trilogy's (1 for the traitors & 1 for the loyalists) by 6 authors released between roughly 2019 > 2020... plenty of room to flesh out characters, tie up loose ends, lay foundations for future stories and give each author a moment in the limelight of Terra's darkest hour... in no particular order; Abnett, A D-B, French, Wraight, McNeill, then a toss up between Haley or Swallow (because of Garro / The Sigillite / Titan).

 

 

Again - if you think that it will end 'soon' in the next year or so - you are sorely mistaken. From events alone we know it will go past 2019.  So the end is nowhere near as 2020.

 

 

Which events? As things stand, I agree it'll* go on beyond a year, but I don't know about that much more. Once we have had the books we know are coming (Ruinstorm, Old Earth, a Doom of the Death Guard book and a Wolf Cull story) most of the major players will be in position. I'm sure there'll be some surprises, but unless the schedule slows down significantly I'd be surprised if the Siege doesn't at least start in 2019.

 

*The main BL series. We know the Primarchs series has a set end date of 2020 and is currently on course for that, and FW have said they have a lot of books planned.

[R_F_D]

Author involved in writing the series, "this series will finish a lot sooner than you think."

Members of the community, "nah, you're wrong." 

 

I wonder whether, as I think has been mooted here, there will be a larger than usual anthology (maybe all novellas) of the events specifically on Terra?  Although with the books presented in a linear fashion i.e. landfall to Horus vs the Emperor.

[Taliesin]

 

 

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think. 

I think this is possibly the second or third time that Mr D-B has dropped this little nugget of info... I can't help but worry that BL might be rushing things a little?

 

 

 

 

I don't get the impression that BL is hurrying things at all. They've still not fully decided who will write the final cycle of novels. 

We don't know how many novels it will be, but let's say there will be 7 more novels after "Old Earth". A novel on the Death Guard, a novel on Beta Garmon.

We're not sure what's up with the Wolves vs Horus book. That leaves 5 more novels to be written for the final Siege of Terra part, that is sort of what I'm expecting, it could be a bit more than that still.

 

So if most of those remaining novels still need be written, that would be happening in 2018 and we'd be seeing releases in 2018 and 2019, possibly going into 2020. I think that's what ADB is hinting at with "sooner than expected".

[b1soul]

I think 5 novels is the minimum to cover the Siege adequately

 

...some people argue that the series should hurry up and get to the Siege. I don't agree but there are those who want to skip the more peripheral stories.

 

That said...no one want BL to rush the actual Siege itself. If BL does that...that would be truly bizarre

[HeritorA]

R_F_D and Tymell

BL live and HH Weekender events. Seminars and authors talking during them.

 

As for why it go more then 1-2 years I will explain, even through sarcastic comment @Members of the community, "nah, you're wrong." @

 

Let's see - now we have Ruinstorm and getting Vulkan at Terra to cover the webway at the end of the year. You all know the timeline from FW for HH approved by Bligh.

After that we still have a road to Terra to cover. Let's presume an approximate list:

2018:

For Horus HeresY Weekender in November we will have John French novel for 'Titan Death' event at Beta-Garmont.

Then we have Wolf Cull story to cover which goes even before Yarant, which goes parallel to Beta-Garmont.

Next we have a novel to fully close the Beta-Garmont war nexus.

Then we have Doom of the Death Guard book.

Then we have all the secondary storylines - like Baal, Silent war etc. to cover - I think it would be another anthology.

That's 4 novels for the 2018. Cause if the previous years taught us something - HH releases 4-5 novels per year.

2019:

Then before we get to the point where invasion could actually really began - we have 2 big events to cover - in 1 or 2 books:

'Breaking of Anvilus' and 'The sea of fire' (which is not a Ruinstorm - cause it's in the separate table to IS, Passage of the Angel of Death etc.)

and it's 2019 already.

Storming through Sol system to Terra will take up to 2 novels I think - so it's the end of 2019.

2020:

And from that point the story of the Siege of Terra will began which would be covered through all the 2020.

 

So - 'it will end sooner than you expected' is a bit of understatement

[Tymell]

R_F_D and Tymell

BL live and HH Weekender events. Seminars and authors talking during them.

 

As for why it go more then 1-2 years I will explain, even through sarcastic comment @Members of the community, "nah, you're wrong." @

 

Let's see - now we have Ruinstorm and getting Vulkan at Terra to cover the webway at the end of the year. You all know the timeline from FW for HH approved by Bligh.

After that we still have a road to Terra to cover. Let's presume an approximate list:

2018:

For Horus HeresY Weekender in November we will have John French novel for 'Titan Death' event at Beta-Garmont.

Then we have Wolf Cull story to cover which goes even before Yarant, which goes parallel to Beta-Garmont.

Next we have a novel to fully close the Beta-Garmont war nexus.

Then we have Doom of the Death Guard book.

Then we have all the secondary storylines - like Baal, Silent war etc. to cover - I think it would be another anthology.

That's 4 novels for the 2018. Cause if the previous years taught us something - HH releases 4-5 novels per year.

2019:

Then before we get to the point where invasion could actually really began - we have 2 big events to cover - in 1 or 2 books:

'Breaking of Anvilus' and 'The sea of fire' (which is not a Ruinstorm - cause it's in the separate table to IS, Passage of the Angel of Death etc.)

and it's 2019 already.

Storming through Sol system to Terra will take up to 2 novels I think - so it's the end of 2019.

2020:

And from that point the story of the Siege of Terra will began which would be covered through all the 2020.

 

So - 'it will end sooner than you expected' is a bit of understatement

 

 

First and foremost, I really enjoy this kind of speculation about what's coming next in the series. The point that made me question you (maybe RFD too, but I can't speak for him) is when you say

 

"Again - if you think that it will end 'soon' in the next year or so - you are sorely mistaken. From events alone we know it will go past 2019.  So the end is nowhere near as 2020."

 

That sounds very much like a statement of fact, whereas the above detailed post sounds more like what you think might happen, which is really all any of us can say at this point.

 

Regarding the above, do you have any sources on John French doing a Titan Death novel and a second novel being done covering Beta-Garmon? To my knowledge, nothing is confirmed there.

 

Likewise with those secondary stories, and other things from the FW timeline like the Breaking of Anvilus and the Sea of Fire, we know they are events, but it's possible FW alone will cover them (we've already seen events in the FW books not touched by anything from BL). Recent years have also seen an increase in the release rate from BL, with this year falling into a general 2 month pattern as mentioned by others.

 

Anywho, overall I don't disagree strongly, though personally I think it might happen a little earlier, but who knows? I'd welcome some more books regardless. But either way, it might be better to make it clear that you're hypothesising rather than stating known facts.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Tymell

[Roomsky]

I think 5 novels is the minimum to cover the Siege adequately

 

...some people argue that the series should hurry up and get to the Siege. I don't agree but there are those who want to skip the more peripheral stories.

 

That said...no one want BL to rush the actual Siege itself. If BL does that...that would be truly bizarre

 

Well, that depends on what you call "rushing".

 

I, personally, am in no hurry to get through the peripheral stories, there are still plenty of goldmines to get through before Siege time. But as I maintain- the siege is essentially one battle. Most novels in this series have several, and based on community response, Isstvan and Calth have both been seen as elaborated upon to a frustrating degree, with only a collective 1-2 novels and an anthology's worth of short stories a piece. 

 

This in particular is just my opinion, but I thought the burning of Prospero really overstayed its welcome, and it was only about 100 pages.

 

So I'd say a trilogy is hardly "rushing". Stories of this scale rarely benefit from a compulsion to pay lipservice to every character, plot-thread, and story arc in their finale. How many long-running manga series devolved into eye-rollingly long battles because of the perceived need to give everyone their time in the sun.

 

And as I said before, focusing on a tight story won't really even be shafting those put to the periphery. The Scouring will be written about afterwards, plenty of time for hanging plothreads to get their due.

 

Also- love it or hate it, the heresy has become a setting rather than an actual series at this point. I'm on the side of love- it often means I can collect the books I enjoy and ignore those that I dislike. I'd hate one of my siege books to be mired in continuity references to something like Deathfire. 

 

TL:DR - please BL, just tell, a good story. Nothing more, nothing less.

[b1soul]

1. How long does the Siege of Terra take? A siege implies sustained pressure against a fortified position over a protracted period. I don't usually think of a punctuated battle when I think of a siege.

 

I'm assuming the Siege of Terra is at least a weeks long affair, if not months long. Feel free to correct me.

 

2. I think they have to cover how the Traitors break through the Rings of Iron of the Sol system. I think that could be enough for a novel.

[DukeLeto69]

1. How long does the Siege of Terra take? A siege implies sustained pressure against a fortified position over a protracted period. I don't usually think of a punctuated battle when I think of a siege.

I'm assuming the Siege of Terra is at least a weeks long affair, if not months long. Feel free to correct me.

2. I think they have to cover how the Traitors break through the Rings of Iron of the Sol system. I think that could be enough for a novel.

Will have to locate the fluff but pretty sure the siege lasts months and as you say there is the "siege" of the Sol system not just Terra.

 

I reckon the HH series will end up having 60 books in the numbered series. Why? Just a gut feeling. So Old Earth is 47 so we have 13 to go. I reckon it is safe to say 3-4 of those will be anthologies so that leaves 9-10 novels. I suspect 3-5 of those will be in the Sol system/Terra.

[Mellow]

I disagree.

 

The setting is "40k"

 

There are many battles and "story arcs" within said setting. This includes everything from 30k through to post Gathering Storm.

 

this is my humble opinion

[Scribe]

 

 

If there's an opportunity to make money you can bet said money that the Siege will be strung out and flogged like a flogged thing being dragged through flogged-ville by a flogger.

Naw. This is coming to an end a lot faster than many people think.

Please write the final scenes.

 

Angron and the Angel.

Horus and the Angel.

Horus and the Emperor.

 

Between you, French and Wraight, nobody respects the setting AND writes as well as you guys.

 

Others may have one, or the other, but not both.

 

I will not accept any other presentation of the E vs Horus unless it comes from you. :(

[Marshal Loss]

I really, really hope ADB gets to do the final fight. That would be the dream. Close second would be Wraight.

 

5 books sounds good for the siege though. So long as I get to see Khârn vs. Morty, EC gallivanting around the world harvesting an entire planetary population, Sigismund being epic on the wall, and hopefully some Abaddon action, I'll be a happy chap.