Ideally...how many HH books to cover the Siege?

[JH79]

Hmmmm... i though McNeil laid the foundations for IS in his short story Rules of Engagement which came out 2 years before Unremembered Empire?

 

Either way I think that with UE we have to bear in mind that Abnett wrote that right around the time that GW / BL was going off the rails... my guess is he decided enough was enough, knocked it out in 6 months or less at the same time as I am Slaughter and dusted himself off to do something way more rewarding, Guardians of the Galaxy anyone???

 

I would now pause to ask, was David Finchers 2nd Movie directing role as much of a car crash as his first? Hell no! Is the dude sometimes hit & miss... well yeah, every creative talent on the planet can be accused of that. What I would consider with Abnett is we know from his recent Track of Words interview that he's excited to back with GW / BL... we know his prose is arguably among the best BL has to offer along with his ideas and world building skills, mix that with a new found passion and i think we could all very well be surprised with what his next Heresy work could bring to the table.

 

At this point though I don't care if he finishes the series or not, I'm just looking forward to his return to the franchise be it in the main HH series or the Primarchs!

[HeritorA]

Its Abnett's name on the book, who else are you going to blame for turning Haunter into a stereotypical super villian?

 

The book was bad, and thats his last work.

 

I dont know, to me its a moot point. I dont pick the writers. I know who I want, why I want them, and what I want out of the conclusion, but I'm ready for disappointment as well.

How about 'High Lords of Terra' club in fullness and Laurie for making it pass edit?

As for the UE - of course the book is bad. IS storyline is bad from the beginning. It was created just for - 'how about that idea to further milk the HH cow'?

 

Even futher books as b1soul said

'Pharos was serviceable and AoC was bad.'

does not improve, cause you can't improve something that is broken on birth.

 

I'll never get over fully, Prospero Burns.. - a lot of us never did. But again this one I forgave him - cause it should have been done. Or space puppies lover would grovel to the End Times.

[Ascanius]

Can someone explain why Prospero Burns is considered bad, apart from "wet leopard-growl", which I will grant was overused to the point of parody?

[Fire Golem]

Can someone explain why Prospero Burns is considered bad, apart from "wet leopard-growl", which I will grant was overused to the point of parody?

I really like Prospero Burns. I didn't even notice 'wet leopard growl' being overused as I read it, it was only after when it was pointed out.

[JH79]

I love that book, especially as it's centred mainly around one Kasper Ansbach Hawser. It's opening chapter alone stands as an exceptional example of how to quickly build a world, history for it's people and demonstrate a beautiful use of prose. It's this flamboyant and almost upper-middle class writing style as demonstrated in the opening moments of Prospero Burns that I have missed the most from the Heresy series since Know no Fear.

 

If Dan does return to the Heresy, and he does get a Siege book then maybe instead of the last it should be the first? Let him do what he does best, build the world / set the tone for everyone else to follow through on.

[bluntblade]

I hope Abnett is given some Primarch books. I'd love to see his good guy Horus (with Sanguinius or Fulgrim too) again, or his take on Corvus, Vulkan or Angron. I would add the Khan as well, but we know that's Wraight.

[Scribe]

Can someone explain why Prospero Burns is considered bad, apart from "wet leopard-growl", which I will grant was overused to the point of parody?

Because the concept of the Wolves-as-Executioners is fundamentally flawed, was poorly written, and shackled to the entire series needlessly.

 

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you asked honestly, as it's an old wound. :p

[Petitioner's City]

But all this is just opinion - for me, PB is my favourite Heresy novel, and I loved what he did with the wolves. It's all subjective 

[HeritorA]

 

Can someone explain why Prospero Burns is considered bad, apart from "wet leopard-growl", which I will grant was overused to the point of parody?

Because the concept of the Wolves-as-Executioners is fundamentally flawed, was poorly written, and shackled to the entire series needlessly.

 

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you asked honestly, as it's an old wound.

 

With which we should go no further or the war will commence. BaC has a lot of space puppies lovers :)

[Phoebus]

You don't have to be a fan of the Space Wolves (I'm not) to recognize that a lot of the opposition to the revelations of Prospero Burns came down to factionalism, though. I saw of lot of dissenting opinions that were both objective and nuanced, but most of what I saw came down to people not liking (A) the fact that one of the Legiones Astartes was given such a mandate over the rest, and (B ) it being implied that the Space Wolves were "better" than other Space Marines. Again, I'm not a "fan" of said faction, but I thought it was obvious that the "superiority" angle (such as it was) was the subjective opinion of an in-universe character. Likewise, the fact that the VIth Legion had to be reinforced by the Custodian Guard and the Sisters of Silence is all you need to know about a mandate not necessarily translating to "Space Wolves > All Other Legiones Astartes."

 

Complete conjecture on my part: do you think someone who picked up this series purely out of interest in the story was (wet leopard-growling aside) as likely to be offended by Abnett's portrayal of the Space Wolves as someone who was invested in the setting and/or one of the other factions?

Edited September 18, 2017 by Phoebus

[b1soul]

A lot of disappointment also stemmed from the advertising of the novel as the Prospero invasion from the SW perspective

 

Judged solely on its merits, the book is a solid B+/A- in my opinion

[Ascanius]

You don't have to be a fan of the Space Wolves (I'm not) to recognize that a lot of the opposition to the revelations of Prospero Burns came down to factionalism, though. I saw of lot of dissenting opinions that were both objective and nuanced, but most of what I saw came down to people not liking (A) the fact that one of the Legiones Astartes was given such a mandate over the rest, and (B ) it being implied that the Space Wolves were "better" than other Space Marines. Again, I'm not a "fan" of said faction, but I thought it was obvious that the "superiority" angle (such as it was) was the subjective opinion of an in-universe character. Likewise, the fact that the VIth Legion had to be reinforced by the Custodian Guard and the Sisters of Silence is all you need to know about a mandate not necessarily translating to "Space Wolves > All Other Legiones Astartes."

 

I mean, yeah.

[HeritorA]

You don't have to be a fan of the Space Wolves (I'm not) to recognize that a lot of the opposition to the revelations of Prospero Burns came down to factionalism, though. I saw of lot of dissenting opinions that were both objective and nuanced, but most of what I saw came down to people not liking (A) the fact that one of the Legiones Astartes was given such a mandate over the rest, and (B ) it being implied that the Space Wolves were "better" than other Space Marines. Again, I'm not a "fan" of said faction, but I thought it was obvious that the "superiority" angle (such as it was) was the subjective opinion of an in-universe character. Likewise, the fact that the VIth Legion had to be reinforced by the Custodian Guard and the Sisters of Silence is all you need to know about a mandate not necessarily translating to "Space Wolves > All Other Legiones Astartes."

 

Complete conjecture on my part: do you think someone who picked up this series purely out of interest in the story was (wet leopard-growling aside) as likely to be offended by Abnett's portrayal of the Space Wolves as someone who was invested in the setting and/or one of the other factions?

Yes and yes. Point is - they made SW > than Custodes. And that's well bias at least

[Mellow]

apparently this thread is about the siege ...

[Scribe]

You don't have to be a fan of the Space Wolves (I'm not) to recognize that a lot of the opposition to the revelations of Prospero Burns came down to factionalism, though. I saw of lot of dissenting opinions that were both objective and nuanced, but most of what I saw came down to people not liking (A) the fact that one of the Legiones Astartes was given such a mandate over the rest, and (B ) it being implied that the Space Wolves were "better" than other Space Marines. Again, I'm not a "fan" of said faction, but I thought it was obvious that the "superiority" angle (such as it was) was the subjective opinion of an in-universe character. Likewise, the fact that the VIth Legion had to be reinforced by the Custodian Guard and the Sisters of Silence is all you need to know about a mandate not necessarily translating to "Space Wolves > All Other Legiones Astartes."

 

Complete conjecture on my part: do you think someone who picked up this series purely out of interest in the story was (wet leopard-growling aside) as likely to be offended by Abnett's portrayal of the Space Wolves as someone who was invested in the setting and/or one of the other factions?

 

No, someone less invested in the setting as a whole and the nuance between the various Legions would not pick up on the fact that the Wolves, the narrator (unreliable) AND external Army/Geneforged references all put Wolves on a pedestal above other Legions that would, and could, perform the role just as well as the Wolves.

 

They would likely come away thinking it was the correct interpretation of the story, because of the various views it was presented from. It took several authors, several books, to undo the bias Abnett intentionally (as per the interview!!) put into the story.

 

It's a failure on multiple levels. Neat original presentation on the Legion intro, but thats the only redeeming quality of the book. The main hook he wanted to go with, fly's in the face of the 'different, but equal' quality that all the Legions shared.

 

Yeah, that siege eh? :p

[Mellow]

ADB is writing one of the "Siege Novels"

[Scribe]

Good. I'm hoping he gets the gate staredown, and Khârn breaching the walls first.

 

And the Emperor and Horus....

[Mellow]

Impossible. He writes too damn slowly, lol.

 

I thoroughly enjoy his novels of course. But damn. Unless this "soon to end" series is set to finish in a couple of years I don't see him finishing the Emperors Shlong and then getting another wonderfully baked novel out in time.

[cheywood]

Is it confirmed that ADB's writing a siege novel? I can't imagine him not doing Sanguinius at the Eternity Gate because of how well he described the concept in a thread here, but he was pretty clear that nothing had been commissioned yet. Wraight has said the same about the Scars I believe. The last Heresy authors' meeting is happening sometime this week. I assume who's going to be covering what will be decided then. Edited September 18, 2017 by cheywood

[bluntblade]

I thought Wraight had a project between now and the Siege anyway. We know AD-B does. Any word on other authors?

[HeritorA]

ADB is writing one of the "Siege Novels"

Hopefully 'Eternity Gate' part. In that case - I'm sold and good luck doing justice to Sanguinius. Who by this point was written into the emo kid by  Swallow and Haley.

 

Impossible. He writes too damn slowly, lol.

 

I thoroughly enjoy his novels of course. But damn. Unless this "soon to end" series is set to finish in a couple of years I don't see him finishing the Emperors Shlong and then getting another wonderfully baked novel out in time.

Well - nothing wrong with slow. Horus Heresy would be running till 2020 anyway.

 

I thought Wraight had a project between now and the Siege anyway. We know AD-B does. Any word on other authors?

 

Lion spaceport defense and Lion spaceport WS counterattack sold to Wraight. Case delivered and closed ;)

[hopkins]

if you follow some of the BL authors on Twitter, you'll see things are in full swing for the last HH planning meeting

oh to be a fly on the wall

[HeritorA]

if you follow some of the BL authors on Twitter, you'll see things are in full swing for the last HH planning meeting

oh to be a fly on the wall

Which is to plan writing HH novels in advance for the upcoming 'years'. You know that it take from 3 to 12 months to write a book (depends on author - caugh Abnett, caugh A D-B) , half a year to edit and print, 2-3 months to prepare for release and advertise. So... you are covered for a longgggg time. As I said- in my humble opinion I think HH will end in 2020

[R_F_D]

if you follow some of the BL authors on Twitter, you'll see things are in full swing for the last HH planning meeting

oh to be a fly on the wall

 

https://twitter.com/adembskibowden/status/910502427148865537

https://twitter.com/LaurieGoulding/status/910473903398686720

https://twitter.com/jmswallow/status/910465056609103872

 

Dan Abnett, Aaron Dembski-Bowden, Gav Thorpe, Chris Wraight, John French, Guy Haley, Graham McNeill, Nick Kyme and Laurie Goulding all tagged in Laurie's tweet.

Edited September 20, 2017 by R_F_D

[Taliesin]

Interesting, if you see more pics please post :)

 

I wonder what the paperwork is that we see in the Swallow twitter pic. I'm thinking print outs from Visions of Heresy.