New Eisenhorn

[cheywood]

Heritor, how can you possibly know the entire contents of a book that isn't out? It's silly to declare Magos a cash grab without having any real idea of how much new content there is. Sure it could end up being what you describe, and I'll bemoan its existence as much as the next guy in that case. It could also end up being a complete novel in its own right that simply uses the short stories as touchstones.

[HeritorA]

Heritor, how can you possibly know the entire contents of a book that isn't out? It's silly to declare Magos a cash grab without having any real idea of how much new content there is. Sure it could end up being what you describe, and I'll bemoan its existence as much as the next guy in that case. It could also end up being a complete novel in its own right that simply uses the short stories as touchstones.

 

Cause I know how the business model work, cause I know what greed is, cause I saw that before with 'Garro'.

Also I read everything - and I know which story they will use for it. In general - in paper format Eisenhorn shorts are equivalent to 260 pages. Add to that 40 new pages and vuala - you have a shiny 300-pages 'new' novel.

 

I will personally ask Abnett at BL Weekender - but I'm ready to bet it would be 'Garro' case 2

[cheywood]

So it's educated speculation just like everyone else in the thread is engaging in. Most everyone on this forum has an understanding of how the business works after all.

[HeritorA]

So it's educated speculation just like everyone else in the thread is engaging in. Most everyone on this forum has an understanding of how the business works after all.

In general - yes. I'm basing it on the my (and the circle of people around me) previous history with BL advertisement, purchases and schedule.

[cheywood]

 

 

So it's educated speculation just like everyone else in the thread is engaging in. Most everyone on this forum has an understanding of how the business works after all.

In general - yes. I'm basing it on the my (and the circle of people around me) previous history with BL advertisement, purchases and schedule.

Fair enough. You might find more people agree with you if you phrase it more as an opinion than a statement of fact. An 'I think' or an 'in my opinion' can do a lot to soften criticism.

[HeritorA]

 

 

So it's educated speculation just like everyone else in the thread is engaging in. Most everyone on this forum has an understanding of how the business works after all.

In general - yes. I'm basing it on the my (and the circle of people around me) previous history with BL advertisement, purchases and schedule.

Fair enough. You might find more people agree with you if you phrase it more as an opinion than a statement of fact. An 'I think' or an 'in my opinion' can do a lot to soften criticism.

 

I know I know. Sometimes it's hard not to be a native speaker. What is 'opinion' to me - is a statement to you. I see my faults and will stand to correct them.

[cheywood]

I hope I'm not coming off as too critical. Language barriers are tough for all. As you say perhaps English is less forceful when it comes to how opinions are expressed than your native language? Those are the kind of tonal differences that can take forever to learn and aren't easily taught.

 

To stay on topic: is Bure is the magos in question or will it be a new character? I have to re-read the trilogy, but I remember Bure as one of the better Ad Mech characters in the canon.

[Mellow]

In my bumbling collection of thoughts commonly known as an opinion. I agree with HeritorA's oddly phrased passive aggressive sentences that this will be Garro mark 2. People like Laurie G that try to market Garro as a new novel are just ... difficult to agree with.

 

It's money. It's also pointless novellas like this that ultimately stop authors from producing better work elsewhere.

[Carach]

so news of Dan getting back into things means i can read between lines and hope once again for no.2 of the Bequin trilogy to arrive on my shelf before i die of old age? :P

 

for someone that purchased the last 'compilation' Eisenhorn/Ravenor trilogies with short stories and all.. and with the short stories like Keeler Image etc that were released in ebook format already on my phone..... i dont see much point in purchasing a repackaged version with maybe 1 extra short in it that i haven't already got.

 

but its cool for those that dont have it to grab it in one super-mega-ultimate bundle i guess.

 

..........stilllllllllllllllllllllll a lil bit of a "build me up buttercup" situation tho cos i read this thinking ZOMGBEQUINYAY and then got shot down in a horrendous ball of flames

[DukeLeto69]

But but but... Dan very deliberately said "there's an entire new full length novel here too".

 

Now I am sure we can argue about what word count constitutes a full length novel but this isn't a new short story nor is it a novella. Maybe a "short novel" like the Beast Arises books (so circa 50k words). Sounds good to me.

 

Dan also said "new Eisenhorn novel...and one I didn't expect to write" actually says to me that BL approached Dan about an Eisenhorn anthology and maybe contributing a new short or two to it and instead Dan ended up writing a new novel (because he was inspired).

 

I honestly believe this is Dan getting his BL mojo back and getting his mind ready to write Penitient.

 

Some people on here are coming across a bit "entitled fan". Personally I am well happy that in the next 6 months I am getting a new Gaunts Ghost and a new Eisenhorn. Who would have thought that 6 months ago?

 

Let's all come back to this thread in February and compare notes as I remain optimistic.

[grailkeeper]

Maybe I'm being entitled but this does feel like when a TV show does a clipshow episode.

[Ascanius]

 

Geeze. Garro audio dramas had 0 connectivity between them. The same with Eisenhorn shorts and audios. What GREEDY BL did - they asked Swallow to create 30 pages of narrator throughts - that bridged the audios for Garro. And they called it a new novel. The same continuation to the experiment is here.

 

It's not like Black Library invented the fix-up novel. They've been around in SF since the Fifties.

 

I haven't read Garro yet, but I'd imagine turning the scripts for audio dramas into prose for a novel isn't a trivial effort, either, so dismissing it as "30 pages of narrator thoughts" seems unfair. Would you dismiss the screenplay of a novel as "30 pages of stage directions"?

[Knockagh]

I can see where heritor is coming from. Heresy compilations have sickened many avid collectors reprinting limited editions and eshorts in an appalling cash grab.

However I learnt my lesson some time ago and stopped buying novellas and shorts ages ago when this strategy became clear. So I no longer care and can look forward to this book knowing it all new stuff for me!

When I look at my BL books the pile of HH limited eds shout and laugh at me from the shelf. I loathe them and their twisted cousins lying nestled beside them in their series numbered compilation.

Heritor I feel your hate and your pain brother. Channel it and cease buying shorts. The pain will be worth it when they pop up in standard novels.

[DarkChaplain]

There really was no secret about collections happening for the HH after the first two limited edition novellas. I mean, when we've known for over 5 years that anthologies would happen and we'd be getting everything in every format eventually. It's not like they tried to hide it, and the first limited editions even had a very long turnaround for getting reprinted (Promethean Sun still hasn't collected and Aurelian only did it last year I believe).

 

I don't see why people are upset about anthologies. First people complained they didn't get the novellas and short stories in print in the main series, then they got upset about anthologies taking away from the novels, when really, that isn't the case whatsoever. An anthology in the schedule doesn't prevent a novel that wouldn't have been scheduled earlier to begin with.

If there's anything I'm miffed about with anthologies it is that they don't have a new short or novella along for the ride, but if they had, people would complain there too.

[Phoebus]

To answer your question, DarkChaplain, I'm not opposed to the Horus Heresy anthologies so much as I am about the release schedule that supports them. As things stand, anthologies are released as late as two and a half years after their content was initially made available. In some cases, the stories in question are stand-alone tales and nothing's lost for the wait. In other cases, though, they very much are part of a story line and, as much as we're told otherwise, the reading of a novel suffers in their absence. What it boils down to is that, if you want the context that informs a lot of these numbered novels and story arcs, you need to make multiple purchases.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Scars was released on October of 2013. In it Mortarion rails about the evils of sorcery and so on. Fast forward to May 2014 and Vengeful Spirit, and Mortarion is suddenly knee-deep in the daemonic and the occult, and Graham McNeill can't be bothered to explain this sudden reversal in the character's motivations. "Daemonology," which was released six months after Vengeful Spirit sheds some light on what changed with Mortarion, but if making multiple purchases didn't interest you, you had to wait until January 2016's War Without End anthology.

I understand that Black Library - like any other commercial venture - is meant to be profitable. Releasing everything in multiple formats makes sense. Timing it so that you're motivated to make redundant purchases to avoid having to wait a year or two, on the other hand, is cynical at best. Taking an already existing anthology - Meduson - and adding another novella to it to make yet another anthology (this one a numbered entry in the Horus Heresy) more than two years after the initial release of said material stretches the boundaries of credibility.

To bring this back to the topic at hand, that's what informs suspicion where this "brand new novel" is concerned: there is both motive and precedent for calling something a novel that is more accurately described as a bridging of previously released material. I'm looking forward to it, I'm willing to pay good money for it, but if it ends up being Garro or Corax all over again, I simply wish they would call it what it is.

[Knockagh]

The 'everything in every format' excuse doesn't wash with me. I assumed, I don't think unfairly, that formats were 'print, audio and digital'. I never would have dreamed format meant numbered series books and novellas.

Does this mean it will work vice Vera and we will have large books broken down into novellas? Of course not it's ridiculous.

I love BL and rarely criticise them, but this reprinting was rotten behaviour of the highest order.

[DukeLeto69]

Where's a moderator when you need one? What has Eisenhorn got to do with HH. Going off topic guys

[Knockagh]

Yes Duke is right I've gone off course. I'm with you on the optimism by the way. I think this will contain some great stuff. Im delighted to be getting more of mr eisenhorn and cant wait for the sumptuous special/limited edition they will push it with. Yum yum, give me it and plenty more

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I will wait for Pariah .

[Roomsky]

I don't read e-books, so this is great news for me. Bring on the dead trees!

 

I don't really see this affecting scheduling much anyway. Abnett is a speedy author when he wants to be.

[b1soul]

I'm not opposed to anthologies at all...

 

 

... but trying to spin Garro as a novel was insulting to reader intelligence

[R_F_D]

I'm not opposed to anthologies at all...

 

 

... but trying to spin Garro as a novel was insulting to reader intelligence

I take your point however I didn't listen to the audio dramas, I wasn't aware of the plots so to me it read like a novel. A quite enjoyable one at that.

Having only just listened to the James Swallon interview on the After Ullanor podcast, which was 2014 I think?, it seems to me that the Garro book was what they always intended to produce.

[R_F_D]

But to go back to the thread, what was the name of the Mechanicum character in the Inquisitor game? Are there any links between them and Eisenhorn in the fluff?

[HeritorA]

I hope I'm not coming off as too critical. Language barriers are tough for all. As you say perhaps English is less forceful when it comes to how opinions are expressed than your native language? Those are the kind of tonal differences that can take forever to learn and aren't easily taught.

 

To stay on topic: is Bure is the magos in question or will it be a new character? I have to re-read the trilogy, but I remember Bure as one of the better Ad Mech characters in the canon.

Definitely. Again - in my 'circle' my 'statement' is figured as opinion. Here - it usually taken as statement. I'm trying to make it more 'friendly' - but it's a work in progress :)

 

Ehhh, Bure is dead, sadly. But one of the shorts cover him

 

In my bumbling collection of thoughts commonly known as an opinion. I agree with HeritorA's oddly phrased passive aggressive sentences that this will be Garro mark 2. People like Laurie G that try to market Garro as a new novel are just ... difficult to agree with.

 

It's money. It's also pointless novellas like this that ultimately stop authors from producing better work elsewhere.

Totally agree. You explained it in the best possible way.

 

 

I'm not opposed to anthologies at all...

 

 

... but trying to spin Garro as a novel was insulting to reader intelligence

It was and now it is round 2, sadly.

 

 

I will wait for Pariah .

You mean - Penitent, right?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah !!!