Which primarch is next? Or will it be two?

[Skaorn]

I am not saying that Magnus is Odin, in fact I have stated that GW should leave Odin to Gandalf. When comparing Magnus to Russ to see who is closer to Odin then Magnus wins easily. As for Russ and Fenris, the burning of Prospero has its similarities to Odin's eventual fate in Ragnarok. Also his world is named Fenris.

 

Odin absolutely sought out power as I stated above but also had Mugnin and Hugnin going out daily to tell him everything going on. Knowledge is power after all. Despite this, Odin isn't impossible to trick. Frigg did it a couple of times and Loki pulled off a bunch of things that maybe Odin might have wanted to stop.

 

Loki wasn't really about collecting power, that's Marvel. He was really about messing with people like when he shaved off Sif's hair, got pregnant with Sliepnir, got Baldr killed, or had Thor dress up as a woman in an effort to get his hammer back. Yes, Loki dealt with some unsavory people but he was often tricking them for the Aesir as often as not. Keep in mind that giants weren't all "evil" and Odin was far from good.

 

So while Magnus might not have the space Viking style that Russ has, he has a great deal more in common with Odin, so there should not be an "Odin" Russ.

[Kinstryfe]

The Heresy stuff has always gone out of their way to portray Russ as being much smarter and shrewder than his reputation conveys. He's absolutely a fiercely skilled combatant, but I think that there's enough intelligence and wisdom bubbling under there that Russ as an Allfather type could definitely be justified. As much as some people want Russ to return as a half wolf monstrosity and punch Guilliman in the face for playing Emperor, I'd much prefer he return as a much wiser, more restrained Primarch. For Guilliman no time passed between 30k and 40k, but for Russ it's been 10,000 years (barring warp shenanigans). Russ should have mastered pretty much every skill relevant to combat and strategy in that time, and could easily give Guilliman a run for his money in some ways. So if/when Russ returns, I would definitely prefer him being a genius survivalist and strategist, rather than an uberwolf monstrosity.

[MrDarth151]

As much as some people want Russ to return as a half wolf monstrosity and punch Guilliman in the face for playing Emperor, I'd much prefer he return as a much wiser, more restrained Primarch.

 

Agreed.

 

The Lion should be the one doing the punching. Which he will. Unless BL forgets all they have written for him in the Heresy.

 

Which, to be fair, might happen.

 

Though I have to say, I do miss Executioners interpretation of the Space Wolves. I would like for it to come back. And who knows, they might actually win something this time, instead of being constantly worfed.

[Urriak Urruk]

I am not saying that Magnus is Odin, in fact I have stated that GW should leave Odin to Gandalf. When comparing Magnus to Russ to see who is closer to Odin then Magnus wins easily. As for Russ and Fenris, the burning of Prospero has its similarities to Odin's eventual fate in Ragnarok. Also his world is named Fenris.

 

Odin absolutely sought out power as I stated above but also had Mugnin and Hugnin going out daily to tell him everything going on. Knowledge is power after all. Despite this, Odin isn't impossible to trick. Frigg did it a couple of times and Loki pulled off a bunch of things that maybe Odin might have wanted to stop.

 

Loki wasn't really about collecting power, that's Marvel. He was really about messing with people like when he shaved off Sif's hair, got pregnant with Sliepnir, got Baldr killed, or had Thor dress up as a woman in an effort to get his hammer back. Yes, Loki dealt with some unsavory people but he was often tricking them for the Aesir as often as not. Keep in mind that giants weren't all "evil" and Odin was far from good.

 

So while Magnus might not have the space Viking style that Russ has, he has a great deal more in common with Odin, so there should not be an "Odin" Russ.

 

This is so all over the place I don't know where to begin.

 

You say Magnus is not Odin. Then you say he's more like Odin than Russ. Then you say even though Magnus is Egyptian, he's more like Odin than Russ, so there shouldn't be a GW Odin.

 

Like, what?

 

Firstly, I'm with you that I don't really want all of 40k to be some giant Norse Mythology analogy, and I don't think it is.

 

But OBVIOUSLY the Space Wolves have some pretty clear ties to Vikings, Norse, and Wolves.

 

30k Russ has always had some pretty clear parallels with war gods, destroyers, executioners and the like (though ones with honor at least).

 

All I'm saying is that if Russ returns, 10,000 years has passed so he shouldn't behave as the same character, but instead as a wiser veteran warrior to reflect the time passed. That doesn't mean he should become a carbon-cut-out of Odin from mythology (and I agree that doesn't make sense), but he SHOULD have a similar aesthetic as to how Odin is often depicted, minus the eyepatch.

 

Old, greying, but still a hardened warrior-king. It shows actual character development and is more interesting.

 

And as much as Magnus is similar to both Odin and Loki, he shouldn't be compared to Norse gods at all, his whole theme is Egyptian. He's like Toth if we really need a god analogy, which we don't.

[Triszin]

Any chance that a primarch, regardless of loyalk/traitor would come back as a Primarch for the Deathwatch? always wearing a helmet, no identifying markings.

 

no doubt a primarch but no one in the imperium can identify which one.

[Skaorn]

Let me try to clarify what I've been saying. You and others have been saying you want an Odin Russ. Russ has very little in common with mythological Odin to the point that his nemesis, Magnus, has more in common with Odin than He does. When the guy who is supposed to be your opposite number has more in common with the guy you're using for inspiration, you have a problem. Even when you state that Russ has clear ties to gods of war, this isn't really different from any of the Primarchs for one and I'd say Thor would probably be a closer match. Thor is all about being a powerful and ferocious warrior where as Odin was about cunning and foresight.

 

What you guys have been doing is like asking for is like asking for a character based on Kali, when all you really know about her is from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. On the bright side there is a parallel to what it sounds like you want and you've probably read the source material: Beowulf. In particular old Beowulf who has to fight the dragon. This seems more in what you're looking for rather than Tolkien's inspiration for Gandalf the Grey.

[Triszin]

In my opinion Only one character in 40k has similarities to Odin, and thats the emperor.

 

 

Each primarch was designed around a different age of man in history and mythology.

 

Russ is firmly planted in Norse lore.

 

Magnus is firmly planted in Egyptian lore.

 

 

Its kind of out right that Russ is a "Thor" stand in in 30k. it however is heavily hinted and alluded to repeatedly thats its mostly a charade, that he does that to appear to be a barbarian, while he is a genius ( like all his brothers), and he is also a Psyker, but he subconsciously rejects that. It is not out of the boundaries of reality, and it is not wishful fan thinking, that in the past 10k years that russ has evolved as a character, and if we go by all the hints, all the directions he was pointed into before he left in 30k then a probable out come is that of a "king thor" character.

 

These characters aren't strictly based in norse mythlogy, but Games workshop tend to blend Norse mythology and Marvel norse mythology. They aren't true to any one base lore setting but pick and choose and from what we have seen then Russ is no doubt downt he Road of either Rune lord Thor, or King thor, which is essentially the same thing. It's where ODIn dies, and Thor steps up and takes the reigns, and goes through a similar process that odin did and grows as a character, while he still has occasional temperament issues he is more lord like, pateint, and uses runes and magics not unlike his father.

 

If we look at magnus it appears many people view him as odin for a few simple reasons.

 

He has one eye, he is strong with magic. Other than that the similarities stop there; but if we look to egyptain mythology we see many similarites with sete, Anubis, Thoth.

 

He seeks knowledge and does not pay attention to the repercussions for that knowledge

 

similar to how Ra had his eye stolen and a portion of his power. (his power in this sense can be seen as his legion, or his soul)

 

I dont really see why there appears to be an argument about this.

 

It's not just looking at 30k characters but at the road they were on and speculation on what character branch they went down in the past 10k years.

 

-------------

 

I think Where Magnus is in 40k, is pretty inline with a Hybrid of RA and Anubis/Horus. He commands a legion of dead (his Tsons that werent psychic), he is a master of magics and terrifying.

 

So In a sense i am agreeing with you. Odin appears to be similar to RA, so when I say that Magnus is similar to RA in the same vein it can be viewed as similar to ODIN but with respect to the initial pantheon.

 

The primarchs will and can never be their father, ODIN, RA, Zeus, whatever pantheon they originated from they will never reach what that was in those aspects. but that doesnt mean they are always weaker, they could become stronger than there pantheonic god fathers in other aspects. SO as RUss heads down Runelord/king thor path (odin/thor mergeer), Magnus could be going down a Thoth, Anubis, Ra merger. Equals yet separate, and MAgnus and Russ could end up being the primarchs with the most in common, yet still vastly diferent

 

----------------

 

as a side thing, in reaserching more odd thor lore.

 

Thor once dressed up as a woman to retrieve his stolen Mijnooir.

 

and it reminded me of an odd story in 40k.

 

That of the only being in 40k to have ever made it through tzeentch's maze.

 

A little girl and her dog.

 way off topic:

 

It made me think that possible russ found a way to disguise himself as a littlegirl along with his wolf, enther tzeentch's library and find out where  Isha is.

[Urriak Urruk]

Let me try to clarify what I've been saying. You and others have been saying you want an Odin Russ. Russ has very little in common with mythological Odin to the point that his nemesis, Magnus, has more in common with Odin than He does. When the guy who is supposed to be your opposite number has more in common with the guy you're using for inspiration, you have a problem. Even when you state that Russ has clear ties to gods of war, this isn't really different from any of the Primarchs for one and I'd say Thor would probably be a closer match. Thor is all about being a powerful and ferocious warrior where as Odin was about cunning and foresight.

 

What you guys have been doing is like asking for is like asking for a character based on Kali, when all you really know about her is from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. On the bright side there is a parallel to what it sounds like you want and you've probably read the source material: Beowulf. In particular old Beowulf who has to fight the dragon. This seems more in what you're looking for rather than Tolkien's inspiration for Gandalf the Grey.

 

OK I'll concede that when I say "Odin Russ," I really want a character who looks more like the Marvel version of Odin. In character I suppose Old Beowulf is a better comparison.

 

I think I've already said 30k Russ = Thor. I just don't want him to stay that way, 10,000 years have passed and he should be wiser and more grizzled.

 

Also I haven't mentioned Gandalf once, that's not what I want.

 

So Russ should look like this;

 

http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/ugc/543/3773544-kingthor-image-102836.jpg

[Jarl Caldersson]

I don't see why people keep saying Russ can't be like Odin. Because of his 30k style? He grew and developed in the warp, gained an appreciation of knowledge so he won't be fooled again (like he said in 30k), he refused to blindly follow anymore and take care of his own fate in 30k (kinda like the start of common myth Odin, in refusing to be controlled by the Frost Giants), he begins to control those rune powers and wield them effectively, begins to be more calm headed and act like a true king than a barbarian. Just because his past is the barbarian king and to a degree Thor, does not mean he is sealed to that past.

 

No he doesn't have the exact story and personality of Odin, but that is to be expected this is 40k not Norse mythology. What we want is a 40k version of Odin aka Odin-Russ. A rune priest, a leader, a warrior, a wise man, whom appreciates knowledge and respects it. It the parallel and opposite of Magnus.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

* yawns

 

It’d be funny if they bring back Corax and Vulcan.

[bluntblade]

I don't see why people keep saying Russ can't be like Odin. Because of his 30k style? He grew and developed in the warp, gained an appreciation of knowledge so he won't be fooled again (like he said in 30k), he refused to blindly follow anymore and take care of his own fate in 30k (kinda like the start of common myth Odin, in refusing to be controlled by the Frost Giants), he begins to control those rune powers and wield them effectively, begins to be more calm headed and act like a true king than a barbarian. Just because his past is the barbarian king and to a degree Thor, does not mean he is sealed to that past.

No he doesn't have the exact story and personality of Odin, but that is to be expected this is 40k not Norse mythology. What we want is a 40k version of Odin aka Odin-Russ. A rune priest, a leader, a warrior, a wise man, whom appreciates knowledge and respects it. It the parallel and opposite of Magnus.

And that would make for an interesting dynamic with Guilliman (as would Jaghatai). A grizzled warrior who has lived some multiples of Guilliman's years, aware of everything going to hell.

[Lord_Caerolion]

as a side thing, in reaserching more odd thor lore.

 

Thor once dressed up as a woman to retrieve his stolen Mijnooir.

 

and it reminded me of an odd story in 40k.

 

That of the only being in 40k to have ever made it through tzeentch's maze.

 

A little girl and her dog.

 way off topic:

 

It made me think that possible russ found a way to disguise himself as a littlegirl along with his wolf, enther tzeentch's library and find out where  Isha is.

 

They did find Russ' armour too...

 

Goddamnit, now I've got a mental image of Russ sneaking into Tzeentch's Labyrinth while wearing a dress, and still with a massive beard, because Tzeentch doesn't comprehend that little girls shouldn't have them.

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

as a side thing, in reaserching more odd thor lore.

 

Thor once dressed up as a woman to retrieve his stolen Mijnooir.

 

and it reminded me of an odd story in 40k.

 

That of the only being in 40k to have ever made it through tzeentch's maze.

 

A little girl and her dog.

way off topic:

 

It made me think that possible russ found a way to disguise himself as a littlegirl along with his wolf, enther tzeentch's library and find out where Isha is.

 

They did find Russ' armour too...

 

Goddamnit, now I've got a mental image of Russ sneaking into Tzeentch's Labyrinth while wearing a dress, and still with a massive beard, because Tzeentch doesn't comprehend that little girls shouldn't have them.

Let's make it canon, after dressing up as a girl and sporting a massive blonde beard, Russ stole one of the heads from that bird daemon taking a bath in the waters of knowledge and is now using it against chaos. Can I get ADB to approve and refine this?

 

 

Thing is with Russ armor is somehow a SM wears it. Russ armor would be twice as big as the SM. It's the whole "did primarchs really wear this gear, or do the SM have so many daddy issues they believe anything shiny belonged to pops".

[Kinstryfe]

 

 

as a side thing, in reaserching more odd thor lore.

Thor once dressed up as a woman to retrieve his stolen Mijnooir.

and it reminded me of an odd story in 40k.

That of the only being in 40k to have ever made it through tzeentch's maze.

A little girl and her dog.

way off topic:

It made me think that possible russ found a way to disguise himself as a littlegirl along with his wolf, enther tzeentch's library and find out where Isha is.

They did find Russ' armour too...

Goddamnit, now I've got a mental image of Russ sneaking into Tzeentch's Labyrinth while wearing a dress, and still with a massive beard, because Tzeentch doesn't comprehend that little girls shouldn't have them.

Let's make it canon, after dressing up as a girl and sporting a massive blonde beard, Russ stole one of the heads from that bird daemon taking a bath in the waters of knowledge and is now using it against chaos. Can I get ADB to approve and refine this?

Thing is with Russ armor is somehow a SM wears it. Russ armor would be twice as big as the SM. It's the whole "did primarchs really wear this gear, or do the SM have so many daddy issues they believe anything shiny belonged to pops".

Fancy gear used by the Primarchs is the "George Washington Slept Here" of the 41st Millennium. Every really old piece of gear was obviously used by the Primarch at one time or another. You can almost see the leap in logic though.

Assumption: "This helmet is the oldest helmet in the chapter armoury, dating back to the days of the Great Crusade. It alone has survived over 10,000 years, and has seen countless battles protecting the Chapter's finest warriors. Surely, such a magnificent helm must have been worn/made/discovered by the Primarch himself!"

 

Reality: This is a very old helmet, but its particular modified MkVII design places it as dating from the 32nd millennium at the earliest. It is a splendid example of a helmet, worthy of preservation and utilization by the Chapter's heroes, but it could not in fact have belonged to the Primarch. Incidentally, it is considered lucky because if you look at this ceramite repair over here on the inside left of the helmet, you can see where a clumsy tech adapt accidentally activated and covered the blue toggle switch with a bonding stud. The helmet is accidentally set to be permanently in auto targeting combat mode, meaning the chance of its wearer missing an attack in close combat is 17% less likely than in the armour's usual default setting; a fact completely unknown to the tech adepts of the Imperium.

[Skaorn]

So Thor getting disguised as Freya was actually Loki's plan to get Mjolnir back from some giant whose name I can't remember. Loki had to do a lot of fast talking to keep Thor from blowing his cover by doing things like eating and drinking like Thor (which would put hunters in Monster Hunter World to shame).

 

So why do I keep mentioning Gandalf? Aside from being a character in a GW game, he is a well known character that drew heavy inspiration from Odin, even using a name associated with Odin. Tolkien went on to define Gandalf as his own character but you can still see several key aspects of Odin because Tolkien did his research. What people saying they want Odin Russ to me is like saying you want a character like Vlad Dracula and then talking about vampires.

 

Speaking of vampires, let's just throw over the whole Viking theme for werewolves and retcon the SW rivalry to Blood Angels for vampire vs werewolf action! 40K Twilight!!!!!!!!!!! We could even make the Space Wolves French considering how many problems they had with werewolves. Sanguinus cold be a woman too.

 

As for viewing Magnus through the eyes of Norse culture when his was influenced by ancient Egypt, well that happened all the time. Two cultures come into contact and see that they worship different gods, they tended to go well they must be worshipping our gods X, Y, and Z. When the Romans encountered the Germanic tribes they saw Mercury, Hercules, and Mars rather than Odin, Thor, and Tyr. So when looking at Russ vs Magnus through the eyes of Norse culture, Magnus appears to be far closer to Odin than Russ and the whole wolf lord going to destroy the kingdom of the sorcerer king echos Ragnarok. Looking at it from the Egyptian side though, my knowledge of Ancient Egyptian myth is limited, it might appear similar to Set's murder of Osiris.

 

So why do I have a problem with people going on about Odin Russ? Well hopefully my suggestions on changes to the SW and BA helped make my point. It's rather irritating to have your heritage used by people not willing to put the research into whatever they are using. As I said before Beowulf is a lot closer to what people seem to want.

[Corswain]

* yawns

It’d be funny if they bring back Corax and Vulcan.

 

I don’t like any Loyalist Primarch in 40K but those would be the two I’d find most interesting. And the Khan. Smaller players, for lack of a better term, would be much better than more of the “usual” Primarchs.

[MrDarth151]

 

* yawns

It’d be funny if they bring back Corax and Vulcan.

 

I don’t like any Loyalist Primarch in 40K but those would be the two I’d find most interesting. And the Khan. Smaller players, for lack of a better term, would be much better than more of the usual” Primarchs.

 

 

So Ferrus when?

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

 

* yawns

It’d be funny if they bring back Corax and Vulcan.

 

I don’t like any Loyalist Primarch in 40K but those would be the two I’d find most interesting. And the Khan. Smaller players, for lack of a better term, would be much better than more of the usual” Primarchs.

 

So Ferrus when?

He may have been in Fall of Cadia already.

[Corswain]

Rather dead Primarchs stay dead.

[no I'm alpharius]

Any chance that a primarch, regardless of loyalk/traitor would come back as a Primarch for the Deathwatch? always wearing a helmet, no identifying markings.

 

no doubt a primarch but no one in the imperium can identify which one.

 

errr.

 

look over there. 

[Sete]

I think Alpharius will be over its head at Deathwatch ;)

He'll be lacking hands for all that action.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Rather dead Primarchs stay dead.

Except Ferrus was already brought back once after his death.

[Corswain]

 

Rather dead Primarchs stay dead.

Except Ferrus was already brought back once after his death.

And now so has Guilliman. That ship has definitely sailed but I dearly wish it wasn’t so.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Need I say it again? I suppose. It's been more since 3rd edition that Ferrus will return from the dead.

 

 

...at this point, I should just stick that in my sig.

[MrDarth151]

Rather dead Primarchs stay dead.

 

And I would like if we explored ten thousand years of Imperial history rather than move the setting forwards at all.

 

But alas.

 

Here's a thing: Imperium is not Chaos. Every chapter whose Primarch will not return will be reduced to listening to those that do. It creates a narrational imbalance that I don't personally like.