Ishagu Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 "A surge of power issues from the Golden Throne and on distant Baal the body of a giant stirs inside his sarcophagus" That would be perfectly acceptable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 "A surge of power issues from the Golden Throne and on distant Baal the body of a giant stirs inside his sarcophagus" That would be perfectly acceptable. For a child's make believe, yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 And what about Celestine? Or the Sanguinor? It's all the same thing. If the Warp can transform entire worlds, flesh and metal than the Emperor can resurrect one individual. In Dark Imperium it's even stated that the Emperor has more psychic power than prior to his apotheosis. Also people have been resurrected in the lore on multiple occasions, and I'm not talking about Guilliman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 "A surge of power issues from the Golden Throne and on distant Baal the body of a giant stirs inside his sarcophagus" That would be perfectly acceptable. For a child's make believe, yes. Well any story sounds dumb if it summarized in like 20 words. A good writer could build a great story filling one or more books based on that premise tho. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Marshal's being overly negative. The whole setting is make believe, and for once the story is moving forward so changes like this shouldn't be off the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Or realistically judging an idea's merits. Sanguinius being resurrected is stupid. It would be like resurrecting Horus for the... third time? I've lost count because of how many times Horus has been resurrected. It becomes cheap and meaningless. Thankfully ADB tried to put it to bed, but then Fulgrim was apparently cloned. So you are right, we are in an era of terrible narrative choices that need good authors to fix them. Sadly, Sanguinius won't be one of those. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Or just two people having different opinions. Not that it really matters here. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 People keep talking about bad narrative choices, but every book I've read that takes place post gathering storm has been great. I don't think the complainers have actually read many of the BL novels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickSix Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I think there will be 4 on each side eventually. The 4th loyalist being Dorn or the KhanThe problem with Dorn is that he doesn't really bring anything different to the table. How in game terms would he really separate himself from Guilliman? Oh boy a super duper gun line buffer dude! Oh he gets 6 extra dice against buildings! Wooohooo The Khan would be the far more interesting choice. The problem is, I think the writing is on the wall that they are setting up for Sanguinius too be resurrected. For GW it makes a lot of sense to give the main four codexes Primarchs. Giving DA and SW their primarch and the two for codex marines, while leaving out BA would not be a smart sales/ marketing strategy. The Khan and Vulcan would be far more interesting and are already setup to return. But GW is going to make the sales choice: they will change what happens on the Vengeful Spirit at Terra through the BL novels and then resurrect the Sanguinius giving each major marine faction a Primarch. Which writing on which wall? Seems to be based on "But if the Space Wolf, Dark Angel and Space Marine codexes all get Primarchs, that means Blood Angels would be left out". The writing on the wall that Black Library has alluded to the events on Terra and the Vengeful spirit being different than what we thought they were. (Basically they are probably going to retcon some of it). It's also been mentioned that Sanguinius was never stated to be 'dead dead'. Someone stated his body was in stasis just like Guillimans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 The issue with the resurrection of Sanguinius is ..... the Black Rage! Do you remove the black rage entirely now that the BAs are no longer seeing Sanguinius' death at the hands of Horus? Or do you 'tone it down' to just after shocks* as it were? *like they've already had preminitions of it during the HH novels when the blood thirster took Sanguinius down Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Black Rage doesn't have to be removed. The damage is already done, his suffering and pain were real. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 They use Sanguinius genetic material to activate their geneseed. They've handled his body, and Horus choked him to death. He was dead for a long period of time before he could've been placed in Stasis. The Black Rage isn't going anywhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 We'll see what happens once the final HH book is released. Could be some revelations. Either way, I'd love to see his resurrection. GW, if you are listening, I will collect a full BA army if Sanguinius is back in 40k. Others will probably do the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Black Rage doesn't have to be removed. The damage is already done, his suffering and pain were real. Only thing I could see Sanguinius doing its tempering it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 To be fair, I'd love to see a 40k Sanguinius model as awesome as a Daemon Primarch. He's the one loyal Primarch that could have a similar presence on the table thanks to his wings. That doesn't influence my opinion about his resurection tho. I'm fine with him dead and I'm fine with him being resurrected. I just don't want the event in the HH change. He still has to die against Horus. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I think there will be 4 on each side eventually. The 4th loyalist being Dorn or the KhanThe problem with Dorn is that he doesn't really bring anything different to the table. How in game terms would he really separate himself from Guilliman? Oh boy a super duper gun line buffer dude! Oh he gets 6 extra dice against buildings! Wooohooo The Khan would be the far more interesting choice. The problem is, I think the writing is on the wall that they are setting up for Sanguinius too be resurrected. For GW it makes a lot of sense to give the main four codexes Primarchs. Giving DA and SW their primarch and the two for codex marines, while leaving out BA would not be a smart sales/ marketing strategy. The Khan and Vulcan would be far more interesting and are already setup to return. But GW is going to make the sales choice: they will change what happens on the Vengeful Spirit at Terra through the BL novels and then resurrect the Sanguinius giving each major marine faction a Primarch. Which writing on which wall? Seems to be based on "But if the Space Wolf, Dark Angel and Space Marine codexes all get Primarchs, that means Blood Angels would be left out".Ferrus is DEADAlpharius/Omegon are DEAD Kurze is DEAD Horus is DEAD Sanguinius is DEAD The spirit of Ferrus appeared to the Iron Hands after the Heresy and promised to return. Alpharius is confirmed dead on Pluto, but Omegon is not - one inquisitor who couldn't prove the veracity of the information and who is now suspected of being an agent of the Alpha Legion provided evidence of a battle on Eskrador that even the Ultramarines, who were supposedly there, deny happening. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I think there will be 4 on each side eventually. The 4th loyalist being Dorn or the KhanThe problem with Dorn is that he doesn't really bring anything different to the table. How in game terms would he really separate himself from Guilliman? Oh boy a super duper gun line buffer dude! Oh he gets 6 extra dice against buildings! Wooohooo The Khan would be the far more interesting choice. The problem is, I think the writing is on the wall that they are setting up for Sanguinius too be resurrected. For GW it makes a lot of sense to give the main four codexes Primarchs. Giving DA and SW their primarch and the two for codex marines, while leaving out BA would not be a smart sales/ marketing strategy. The Khan and Vulcan would be far more interesting and are already setup to return. But GW is going to make the sales choice: they will change what happens on the Vengeful Spirit at Terra through the BL novels and then resurrect the Sanguinius giving each major marine faction a Primarch. Which writing on which wall? Seems to be based on "But if the Space Wolf, Dark Angel and Space Marine codexes all get Primarchs, that means Blood Angels would be left out".Ferrus is DEADAlpharius/Omegon are DEAD Kurze is DEAD Horus is DEAD Sanguinius is DEAD The spirit of Ferrus appeared to the Iron Hands after the Heresy and promised to return. Alpharius is confirmed dead on Pluto, but Omegon is not - one inquisitor who couldn't prove the veracity of the information and who is now suspected of being an agent of the Alpha Legion provided evidence of a battle on Eskrador that even the Ultramarines, who were supposedly there, deny happening.BL confirmed that both the AL Twins are DEAD, one killed by Dorn, the other one by Guilliman Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 What about the third one? They were triplets, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 What about the third one? They were triplets, right? *insert Fry not sure meme* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 What about the third one? They were triplets, right? *insert Fry not sure meme* it has some weight to it. there was a third head of the hydra. alpha omega a bit of both Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 We already have a topic for discussing who players think the next (?) primarch will/won't be, so I've merged the topic started yesterday about how it won't/shouldn't be the Lion with the existing topic. It's not the same - but considering the thread immediately turned into people talking about other Primarchs than the two I named and ignoring my post anyway, you're probably right! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyros Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Black Rage doesn't have to be removed. The damage is already done, his suffering and pain were real. Expand this further. Who was the recipient of that damage? The primarch... so it wouldn't be "realistic" if he didn't suffer the Black Rage at least half the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 BL confirmed that both the AL Twins are DEAD, one killed by Dorn, the other one by Guilliman I know about the one on Pluto by Dorn, but you'll have to provide proof they confirmed the other one at Guilliman's hand. First I've heard of that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Black Rage doesn't have to be removed. The damage is already done, his suffering and pain were real. Expand this further. Who was the recipient of that damage? The Primarch... so it wouldn't be "realistic" if he didn't suffer the Black Rage at least half the time. Well he didn't suffer from the Black Rage. The Black Rage itself is the emotional state of Sanguinius leading up to his battle with Horus, imprinted on his sons. This doesn't have to change. I also expect Sanguinius, should he return, to be a darker brooding figure as a result of past experiences. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I thought the black rage was the visions of Sanguinius dieing at the hands of horus and the marines living it as Sanguinius and going into a bersark kill frenzy? Or is that something else? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339977-which-primarch-is-next-or-will-it-be-two/page/28/#findComment-5169843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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