The Emperor protects - a Codex: AM review

[Feral_80]

* = edited to reflect the 1.1 FAQ, which overall included many reasonable adjustments and a couple of very unreasonable ones (Valhallan nerf, poor reform of the Commissar ability).

 

Where to begin with C:AM? It is powerful. It is great. In terms of design quality and inspiration, it is vastly superior to anything appeared so far (only C: Death Guard is comparable, but more limited) and an excellent omen for promising future Codexes. Instead of giving us the 4th copy/paste iteration of the Raven Guard chapter tactic, C:AM shows a real effort to characterize an army through its rules. And it definitely succeeds.

 

There is much salt and confusion going on about this codex at the moment. People like to whine. It is not OP, nor nowhere near some 7th ed. broken nonsense. It is not perfect either, but certainly very close to the desires of AM fans.

 

Some of the most debated issues of the Index (Scions, plasma, Conscripts) have been adjusted. Some of the less popular entries (LR, Valkyries) buffed. There are no dramatic changes except a few, and overall the codex brings vast improvements but also more complexity. It will require some time to become familiar with and figure out the more subtle changes: I can say that the way C:AM works will probably change the composition of most armies, for two reasons: more vehicles are now worth including, and you'll want to combine a couple of regiments into different detachments to complement their abilities and add more tactical options. Which is perfectly fine, very stimulating and overall great. But it also means that we'll probably see less Brigades, because fielding two large detachments will require some significant limitations to the choice. The way regiments limit the inclusion of units now means that fielding a Brigade is a bit harder, if you want some specific units (and you'll want them, because you'll look for those that synergize best with the regiments). Brigades are still very possible, but not so obvious anymore. Which, again, is good.

 

 

Pros

• Powerful: no doubt the AM is finally confirmed to be a dangerous opponent.
• Flexible: an incredible number of options and units, most of which really work, allow remarkable variety. The greatest danger posed by the Guard is now its flexibility and the variety of threats it can pose. You can field anything from a traditional army to an all-assault or all-mechanized army, or even a tank company, and they will all work (some better, of course). I think this is the reason for most of the madness out there, many players that use other armies are scared because a) their autowin button is broken, and b ) they do not know (yet) how to face the Guard.
• Characterful and fluffy: for the first time, we can finally differentiate our playing style and armies, and be rewarded for that instead of penalized (I'm thinking of you, old codex: Catachans).
• Combined arms: finally, there are also excellent reasons to field a combined army of infantry, tanks, artillery, and support. Just like in the fluff! Gone are the days of all-infantry AM as the only competitive option. 

Cons

• A few missed occasions: Vets, Chimeras, a few weapons, vehicles equipment, and some more things could all be made better.
• While overall quite balanced, 2 regiments stand out as particularly good for specific builds (Cadians and Catachans). Some implementation issues overall - see below.
• Some poorly worded rules (traditionally GW) will need clarification and have already created rather absurd attempts to find loopholes and occasions for abuse. I will not address this nonsense here.
• Some significant compatibility issues with the way many AM armies have been collected and painted so far. These will create confusion in some cases and force many armies to undergo restyling. Also, puzzling compatibility issues with the regiments from the FW index.

 

*Inconsistencies and missed opportunities

 

A few notes on some things that could have been made differently to better reflect the fluff and differentiate regiments.

 

• Catachans and Cadians: very good, but not greatly differentiated/desgined rules. Probably most armies will include at least one such detachment. Their bonuses are arguably the most useful, although by no means one should feel compelled to take them. The worst part is that, taking everything into consideration (doctrine, orders, and special characters) Catachans and Cadians can end up playing surprisingly close one another, which is both boring and far from the fluff. Static Cadian LR with the Cadian order perform very similar to static Catachan LRs with popular choices like Harker or Yarrick. Harker, especially, turns a Catachan line into basically a Cadian line, although movable and slightly less buffable. It would have been much better to give one of the two regiments a bonus using LRs with fixed-shot weapons, instead of pushing both towards taking d3/d6 weapons, and to better orient each infantry to take specific kinds of weapons. The Catachan order tries do to this, but its utility is extremely limited.
• Artillery: a missed opportunity to differentiate artillery more effectively from the rest of the vehicles. That would have helped to differentiate the regiments as well, for example by having some (Cadian, but also, in perspective, the future DKK update) enjoy specific bonuses for artillery only and not for LRs, for example. The Master of Ordnance is not only bad, he is utterly redundant and useless for Cadian artillery, despite the fact that he is very Cadian in character and that his only existing miniature is Cadian. But no Cadian army will ever take one...
• Valhallans: poorly designed rule. Commissars are very obviously inspired by WW2 Red Army commissars. The fact that Valhallans have *less* reasons to take Commissars than other regiments takes away from their fluff: if anything, their regiment rule should have encouraged taking more! For example, by giving their Commissars Voice of Command, or something else. The fact that post-FAQ Commissars suck is an entirely separate issue. Valhallans have not been faithfully represented by their rules, at least the infantry part.
• Snipers: a smaller issue, but still. Some regiments (Catachans, Tanith) are famous for their snipers. Yet none gives bonus to snipers, and there is no real reason to take snipers in squads since we have ratlings. Having a regiment or at least a stratagem with buffs that applied to snipers as well would have been thematic.
• Vehicle equipment: why include a stupid and obviously outdated option like the augur array, but not a cool and often-modelled option such as camo nets and explosive defensive barrels? Bah.
• Thematic options: in a perfect world, the codex would have included 1 special character and 1 special unit for each regiment that would have matched its playstyle and fluff. For the latter, there would have been plenty of opportunities to develop earlier or new concepts: death world vets (devils) for Catachans, dedicated Scions (Kasrkins) for Cadia, light desert cavalry for Tallarn, etc. But GW is obviously and sadly removing all these cool things that require some conversions.

 

 

Units overview

 

 

What stated for the Index is still largely valid, but some important changes have occurred, besides a (finally) rational arrangement of the entries in the army list. Green=good, you can figure out the rest. I should clarify that this rating takes into account not only tabletop performance, but also coherency of a unit within the AM fluff.

 

 

 

HQ:

A great source of cheap, essential support and buffs.

• Creed: unchanged, its high cost rewards with good buffs and a juicy +2 CP. But a modest warlord trait and no option for a relic means he is still inferior to a normall CC.
• Company Commander: great and also unchanged.
• Pask & Tank Commanders: as all LR, they are now better. As their cost has remained the same, however, they start to become significantly more expensive than a standard LR. Pask is still too cheap and too good compared to a normal TC. He will just die like a normal LR if shot anyway, i.e. easily. 
• Yarrick: better, as due to his warlord trait he has Voice of Command again - very appropriated. Still, his high cost only makes him viable in a few occasions.
• *Lord Commissar: the FAQ hit this guy pretty badly. He still has some uses due to his giving Ld 9 around. However, some doctrines make him superfluous for some regiments (esp. Catachans, Valhallans). Relatively expensive. Can double as a decent counter-charge hero if given a good Relic. See under 'Commissar'.
• Straken: significant discount, buffed by his doctrine, much better. He would be a real beast for his price, if only that meagre AP 1 didn't limit his usefulness so much. 
• Tempestor Prime: unchanged, but the changes to MTempestus means we will see a bit less of these around.
• Primaris Psyker: a source of powerful support, and even better than before with his access to good protective spells. Being able to only cast and deny 1 per turn, his is perhaps a bit overrated at 40 pts vs the much cheaper Astropaths. A Primaris is only better at casting smite, but then again we both have a similar spell for astropaths, and other good psyker options (Inquisitors) able to smite, although these require a separate detachment now...

 

Troops:

One obvious choice and two decent, and very different, alternatives.

• Infantry squad: great as always, and now with regiments buffs. Plasmagun cost change + some doctrines = we'll be encouraged to move our plasma here.
• *Conscripts: pre-FAQ: despite the very welcome nerf, they are still useful. I still believe we can do great (and have more fun) without them anyway. Post-FAQ: these are now completely useless, it seems to me. Fair enough, I always hated them.
• MTempestus Scions: plasma drop suicide squads will be largely abandoned now that plasma costs more than a meltagun and that we have other ways to field effective plasma fire. They are still a good choice, especially in their own detachment since they'll have a chance to score extra hits (you'll still want plasma here despite all). However, now they can see other uses, and the discount to hsvg is at least interesting: they can better reinforce a line of fire now, for example. Abusers will now probably turn to Elysians until they are fixed as well. That's fine, I like the idea of keeping our own Scions and experiment other roles for them.

 

Elite:

A wealth of options, many of which are sub-optimal. Still one of the easiest sections to fill since the few really good options are both cheap and useful.

• Master of Ordnance: despite the discount, he is still useless. There are other, much more widespread, flexible and efficient sources of rerolling 1s around. It's a real pity.
• Platoon Commander: still not very appealing compared to the CCommander.
• *Command Squad: as before, very good firebase but still a missed opportunity for a thematic addition. Useful and powerful as a counter-fire or suicide squad, but the way it should really be fielded (with specialist equipment) is unappealing due to the poor rules and cost/efficiency of most of its equipment, especially vox and medi-pack. Banner has become more interesting post-FAQ due to the uselessness of Commissars.
• *Colour Sergeant Kell: pre-FAQ: despite some useful buffs, his pts can be better spent elsewhere. Post-FAQ: he is now more interesting, because basically he grants the Commissar reroll on morale without the bad part, but also, strangely enough, his banner does not provide a +1 Ld buff. Still, not essential.
• Special Weapons Squad: now more interesting as a source of buffable cheap plasma (Cadian, etc.) or flamers (Catachan). Lost the demo charge, but it was pretty useless already anyway.
• Veterans: improved with doctrines, but still disappointing as they do not offer much flexibility or special equipment. Mostly attractive as a way to field a nicely converted squad, but otherwise their job is best done by Command Squads (for plasma/melta) and/or Sws (flamer). A missed opportunity to reintroduce cool features such as infiltration and their own sergeant/officer able to issue 1 order to the squad.
• Harker: a great force multiplier with a variety of uses. Personally I'd have preferred his buff to apply to Infantry only. He somewhat jeopardizes the 'Catachan style' (see above).
• MTempestus Command Squad: see Scions above.
• Ministorum Priest: a not *so* cheap, support for many CC units. Essential in serious assaults, but not for small assault units as his cost is almost worth another Bullgryn/more Death Riders etc. Plus, he won't necessarily make it when charging, forcing you to weird konga-line.
• Crusaders: a curious, slightly puzzling new entry. A good target for some dirty buffs. Not exactly dangerous and hardly overpowered despite the infamous 2++ potential, but can act as an annoying tarpit.
• Tech Priest Enginseer: will see more use now with our better tanks. As in C:AdMech, without Canticles.
• Servitors: still probably the worst and most useless unit in the game. As in C:AdMech, and without Canticles.
• *Commissars: the FAQ made these rarely worth taking. They have the potential (and in certain cases, the certainty) to hurt your units equal or more of a failed morale test in any case. Why should you pay for these? Leave at home - if you really want a Ld buff, take a Lord and/or a banner. And if you really want one, any upgrade to his gear is hardly worth it given his worse WS and BS.
• Officer of the Fleet: has some use, thanks to the more dakka provided by the Valkyrie.
• Wyrdvane Psykers: they suck, and the miniatures are terrible.
• Astropath: with the good support spells around now, he's precious. He'll leave the Primaris free to cast Smite.
• *Ogryn Bodyguard: a funny new entry with an annoying potential for abuse. He's certainly cool, finally a Nork that can actually punch.
• Ogryn: despite a small buff, still poor. Go Bullgryn.
• Bullgryn: fearsome, and funny to use. Definitely a must-take. Mauls are the only real optioin.
• Nork Deddog: sadly, don't bother. Just take a normal Bodyguard.
• Ratlings: useful, but will evaporate under a stiff breeze. I still rate Elysian snipers as superior, but the latter now need a separate detachment. Their best ability is to infiltrate and die, denying area to deep-strikes. If they ever shoot a round beyond that, it's a bonus. I think they should have been moved to Fast Attack to reinforce that section a bit, especially after the loss of Rough riders.

Fast Attack:

Limited choices, now more than before since Rough Riders have disappeared. They won't be missed, as their utility was very limited: go DKK if you want good cavalry. The less essential section of the army, and yet some FA entries are quite essential to many builds overall.

• Hellhounds: even better than before. The designer did a great job in improving both the Hellhound and the Devil Dog. Sadly, the Bane Wolf now lags a bit behind the Hound due to its low number of hits and short range.
• Scout Sentinels: still very useful as area/deepstrike denial.
• Armoured Sentinels: despite the improved stats, only bother in a Tallarn army.

Heavy Support:

Plenty of great choices, and an extremely popular sector.

• Heavy Weapons Squad: a tiny and reasonable points increase. Still very worth it, especially with some doctrines (eg Cadian), in two configurations only: hw squads should only be used for mortars and heavy bolter, which happen to be both the cheapest and most effective weapon options. Heavier and more expensive weapons are generally poorly priced, except possibly the lascannon, and should only be put in infantry squads for protection, as they are too expensive and too fragile to be worth it as hw squads.
• *Basilisk: the improved AP is a nice surprise for an already solid unit. Until the latter will received the same bonus, While Basiliks are good, the inferior pts cost and overall better rules of its FW Earthshaker-bearing competitors make the Basilisk outclassed by the Earthshaker carriage (also a vehicle: will benefit from some doctrines) and platform (the cheapest, but beware: it's not a vehicle). I'd never leave home without a couple Earthshakers, on your favourite chassis.
• Wyvern: still decent, although not a real must-take.
• Hydras: the discount is good, it has its uses but it seems still a bit underwhelming.
• Manticore: powerful, and now more balanced with the Basilisk.
• Deathstrike: only for fun, but its stratagem is really awesome to try at least once.
• Leman Russ: one of, or possibly the great winner of the Codex. Finally a *scary* tank. Its new rules mean that even non-Tank Commander LR have a use now, and they are well priced. Sadly a few weapons (Eradicator, Demolisher, Exterminator) seem still lacklustre due to either lack of punch or excessive pts cost. It's great to have the good old Battle Tank back, however. They finally dropped the stupid 'Demolisher' separate entry, all variants are together now. There is even an option to give LR ObSec, but it's not going to do miracles.

All the rest:

• Chimera: I would have expected a slight point decrease. The stratagem sadly does not make up for its still not very reasonable price. A solid transport, but won't be much popular outside Armageddon armies.
• Taurox: a significant discount for this now interesting fire support platform. Its armament does not synergize well with its transport role, but being so cheap one cannot complain. It is also faster than a Chimera, although a bit weaker and cannot take vehicle equipment.
• Taurox Prime: a tiny point increase (counterbalanced, in the short range dakka version, by the decrease of the hsvg, however), expected and fair. Benefits from MTempestus doctrine if fielded in a dedicated detachment, so even more dakka!
• Valkyries: the second great winner of the codex after the LR. Much improved, significantly discounted, and now finally a dakka-ship: rocket pods being now Assault, and the +1 hit if hovering, means the Valkyrie went from firing at a poor 5+ to mostly an effective 4+ or 3+ depending on the situation. It has, however, lost the crucial ability to drop its cargo anywhere near the enemy and guarantee any form of nasty charge and close-range fire, as now models must disembark at the usual over 9" from the enemy. I guess it's fair enough, and more in line with all other transports in the game. And still allows dirty disembarking moves. I love it, and cannot wait to see the same buffs applied to a Vendetta.
• Super heavies: discounts on several models, better rules, and huge improvements of all main guns. What's not to love? I won't go through each one, but generally speaking these are all viable and great. Perhaps a bit *too* great with some Doctrines (Tallarn, Valhallan), FW support, and the scary Crush them stratagem.

 

Vehicle (and other) equipment

 

I was very excited by the return of this section, and hoped to see some nice rule for camo nets. I was eventually disappointed: the rules for the 3 gadgets are all pretty meh. Only track guards can be attractive, mostly on a Chimera or Hellhound. The other two are very bad. Overall, this section is a nice idea that resulted in a poor outcome.

 

As for the loss of power weapons, except swords: whatever. Mauls were nice, and axes on Catachans would have been even nicer. But frankly, we got so much in return that we can live with this. Same for demo charges.

 

 

Regimental doctrines

 

These can be divided into 2 broad groups:

• Mobile and aggressive armies: Catachan, Tallarn, Armageddon, MTempestus
• Mostly static gunlines: Cadians, Vostroyans, Mordians, (Valhallans)

I will not discuss at length each one, as the preview week has given us plenty of opportunities to do so already. See above on some inconsistencies among the regiments.

 

The choice and interaction between the detachments will impact strongly on the way an army will play. It is appreciable that through a combination of orders, stratagems, relics, and doctrines, there is no openly lacklustre choice here (Imperial Fists), nor some that are obviously much better than others (Salamanders or Raven Guard). Even a regiment that might seem a bit weaker due to a not very appealing doctrine, such as the Mordians, suddenly becomes interesting thanks to its powerful unique order/stratagem. On the other hand, the regiment that is probably slightly more powerful in 'normal' situations (Cadia) is offset by a rather boring and limited way of playing, and by a risk to suffer from excessively static deployment and lack of mobile assets, which should encourage the inclusion of more thematic regiments as other detachments.

 

We can only be excited by the many possibilities allowed by field 2-3 detachments from different regiments, building our own hammer&anvil army. Personally, I'll use one of the static gunlines (Valhallan or Cadian) to hold my deployment zone and provide support, and add a very mobile detachment (Catachan or Tallarn) for armoured assault and close range dakka. It will be great fun to try different combination and see which suits best our play style.

 

Perhaps the only slightly inferior choices as an army are Steel Legion and the MTempestus. For the former I'm sorry, but they are still absolutely playable. For the latter that's ok, as their proper role is supposed to be specialized support, and all-MTempestus armies were obviously a very poor 7th ed. invention. Btw, not only are the rules for the use of their keyword quite convoluted; they should not have been a regiment at all, frankly. Ah well.

 

 

 

Stratagems

As elsewhere, they range from the very situational to the very powerful. I'll just go over the ones that will likely see most use:

 

• Crush them!: poor on your average vehicle, but utterly killer on a super-heavy.
• Jury rigging: can be worth it if it allows you to use the superior profile to fire.
• Imperial commander's armoury: with a good reserve of CP on the average AM army, and some juicy items to choose from, 1 CP for a second relic is well spent.
• Preliminary bombardment: won't achieve much, but it's annoying (for your opponent), funny (for you), and worth a try against deployment with numerous drops.
• Inspired tactics: possibly useful to get that 6th order for d3 VP (AM objective)
• *Take cover: post-FAQ, now it reasonably applies to infantry only.
• Vengeance for Cadia: I feel sorry for Chaos.
• Overlapping fields of fire (Cadian): one of the best stratagems to *really* take down a dangerous target. Couple with the one above against Mortarion, Magnus, super-heavies, etc.
• Ambush (Tallarn): unclear wording - can the units transport other 'free' units? In any case, as expensive as scary, even after the post-FAQ limitation to 1 vehicle (squadron) and to LR grinding advance.
• Vicious traps (Catachans): not good per se, but a decent psychological deterrent: a wounded character will think twice before charging your squad in cover.
• *Send in the next wave: once a fluffy and wonderful Valhallan stratagem, now unnecessarily made utterly useless by the FAQ. Good work GW.

 

Honourable mention for Fire on my Position: great, cinematic concept, terribly poor implementation. At 3 CP it is not really worth it, sadly.

 

Heirlooms of Conquest

 

What I like:

 

• The Emperor's Benediction: a nasty little gun. It's rather attractive on a Lord, and remember it will fire in close combat as well. If only there were not so many other good (better) relics around...
• Laurels of Command: very interesting, definitely a must-take.
• *Dagger of Tu'Sakh: a mini Tallarn-style move, always has some potential. Especially since it seems you can outflank a Bullgryn bodyguard with a full squad of Bullgryns... 
• Kurov's Aquila: good, potentially, but hardly needed. There are better CP buffs, and against many low-CP opponents it has very limited use.
• Relic of lost Cadia (Cadian): a one-use similar to the devastating order above, but better.
• Close combat weapons: there are a few quite good melee weapons, two of which (the generic Blade of Conquest and the Catachan blade) are rather uninspired variations of one another. In combination with some Warlord traits and doctrines, you might devise a reasonably punchy character. But we'll hardly need this, and he'll still be horribly squishy anyway. Nothing to scream about. 

 

Warlord traits

 

The ones which will be most popular, I guess:

• Grand strategist: by far the best of all, and the one you'll want 90% of the times. Essentially gives 1 extra CP and the ability to recover those you spend on a 5+. Especially powerful in an army that normally has 10+ CP.
• Old Grudges: it can have its uses, when facing a Primarch, super-heavy, etc. that must absolutely go down. 
• Among the regimental traits, the Cadian is the only really great one. Valhallan, Vostroyan, Armageddon, and Mordian seem to suck, as probably does the Catachan (but I still love it if I think to Straken). Tallarn and MTempestus are situational, but generally not great.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Feral_80

[Boyadventurer]

Re: Valkyries, i don't see anything disallowing units to disembark, move, then charge.

[Withershadow]

Re: Valkyries, i don't see anything disallowing units to disembark, move, then charge.

There isn't as far as I can see.

 

I disagree on a bunch of points.  Tank Commanders are worth their premium now that they can command themselves.  It is a hefty 45 points, but especially if you throw in the command relic (or are running Pask) and/or Warlord Trait for a 2nd or 3rd order. 

 

Several of the Doctrines are very useful, not just Cadians.  Cadia favors a static gunline, which is not great at all the scenarios and can be countered.  Tallarn is fantastic for both infantry and vehicles, for example; infantry with special weapons like meltas and flamers now are more able to reach their designated targets, while vehicles being able to move and fire heavy weapons opens up a lot of options, from transports to sentinels to any kind of sponsons on a Leman Russ.  Valhalla also seems quite strong, with a great unique order, and an ability to infinitely keep an army from engaging them by feeding them difficult to break units and shooting them up in melee; ignoring half of the damage chart also makes a lot of the open topped vehicles significantly more durable as they basically have to be dead before their accuracy degrades. 

 

Catachans have fantastic artillery and the re-rolls to 1s on their vehicles from Harker.  Straken and a Priest give their basic infantry 4 S4 attacks.  The re-roll on number of shots also makes double flamer chimeras, flamer squads, or non-punisher/HB Leman Russes extremely scary, potentially more so than Cadia's.

 

Tallarn Chimeras now bring quite a bit of fire-power, with 3 heavy bolters and a stubber for potentially 12 shots + 6 lasguns per tank.  Add track guards and they now remain mobile. 

 

Lord Commissar remains great with a power fist with his base 2+ to hit, so I don't see him as being downgraded at all.  Yarrick is of course amazing, but you do pay quite a bit for his abilities (more than a commander + commissar Lord would cost you).

 

Crusaders are actually quite interesting, as they've retained their Acts of Faith.  A 3+ invulnerable and 6 attacks in melee with a priest around is pretty solid.  Even at S3 with their power swords, that's better than many Marine or Chaos "assault" units.

 

Scions are still great, they are just no longer criminally good.  Even with a 24-point premium per 4-plasma unit, 152 points for 9 BS3+ overcharged plasma shots, plus 10 hotshot lasgun shots, all getting re-roll to 1s from an order is still quite good. The grenadier stratagem for a bunch of krak grenades also sounds pretty hilarious. Two such units with a single Prime to command them is only 344 points, a pretty easy module to fit in considering that gives you an HQ and 2 troops and well on your way to another brigade command bonus. Hotshot volley guns are extremely cheap now, too, so that's another great option for a squad that drops in opportune cover with their commander and just hose out fire with FRFSRF.  They may not get their mediocre Regimental bonus if they are included in your regular list, but they are still Sv4+ objective secured models who can teleport to objectives. 

 

There is really almost no bad option in this codex if you want to build around it.  The Wyrdvanes are probably the only exception.  Even the maligned servitors are a great way to bring effectively 19-point plasma cannon heavy weapon teams with a 4+ Sv who ignore multi-wound attacks.  If you are bringing a techpriest to sit behind some artillery or a superheavy to keep it repaired, throwing a servitor team within 6" is a no-brainer.  

Edited October 9, 2017 by Withershadow

[tychobi]

Great overview!  Thanks for taking the time to give your insight on the new book.  I am totally stoked to be assembling my new guard models right now and hope to be painted and playing them very soon. 

 

Two questions: 

 

I don't have my forgeworld imperial armor yet and was wondering about the lack of vehicle key word on the Earthshaker Platform as most of the buildings I have seen do have the vehicle key word. Possibly a print error to be fixed by faq? Or possibly on purpose to tone it down a little?

 

What do you think of the cyclops demolition vehicle?

[HenricusTyranicus]

Re: Valkyries, i don't see anything disallowing units to disembark, move, then charge.

That's not what he said. He said they have to disembark and set up more than 9 inches away. That means no more point blank guaranteed charges and melta hits. Still a great transport. 

[mertbl]

I'm fairly certain even the index entry required you to be 9" away when grav chuting.

 

 

 

 

Re: Valkyries, i don't see anything disallowing units to disembark, move, then charge.

That's not what he said. He said they have to disembark and set up more than 9 inches away. That means no more point blank guaranteed charges and melta hits. Still a great transport.

Edited October 9, 2017 by mertbl

[HenricusTyranicus]

I'm fairly certain even the index entry required you to be 9" away when grav chuting.

 

 

 

Re: Valkyries, i don't see anything disallowing units to disembark, move, then charge.

That's not what he said. He said they have to disembark and set up more than 9 inches away. That means no more point blank guaranteed charges and melta hits. Still a great transport.

 

You're right, the wording is exactly the same in the index.

[Withershadow]

They deploy the same as always, and as before can move and fire normally. That's why Tallarn special Weapon teams are so great jumping out of Valks and Vendettas.

[oldmanlee]

Good review I'm loving the new Dex (band wagon jumpers in my gameing group not so much) love the fact the taurox got so cheap got a torney in two weeks so will be running the Dex there see what it can do

[Feral_80]

Ah! You are all right about the Valkyrie, I totally misread the entry. Well, even better. I'll edit the post to clarify.

 

As for the rest:

 

 

I don't have my forgeworld imperial armor yet and was wondering about the lack of vehicle key word on the Earthshaker Platform as most of the buildings I have seen do have the vehicle key word. Possibly a print error to be fixed by faq? Or possibly on purpose to tone it down a little?

 

I think it is intentional, not all Artillery are Vehicles. Overall they are still good, but at the moment this tones them down a little because they cannot access some Vehicles buffs from doctrines, stratagems, etc. And,  officially they are still AP -2 of course.

 

What do you think of the cyclops demolition vehicle?

 

Very funny, I run often 2-3 just to spread panic. I hope they will be allowed to embark in the codex.

 

 

 

 

 

Tank Commanders are worth their premium now that they can command themselves.  It is a hefty 45 points, but especially if you throw in the command relic (or are running Pask) and/or Warlord Trait for a 2nd or 3rd order. 

 

They are good, but the fact - as I wrote - that normal LR are so good now makes Tank Commander a choice, not a no-brainer. Which again is beneficial to our variety.

 

 

Several of the Doctrines are very useful, not just Cadians. 

 

Totally agree. that's exactly what I wrote, all doctrines have their use and there is no useless one. I wrote that Cadian is the most *boring*, and that it might be slightly stronger in an average situation. I'll add something more about the Regiments.

 

Scions are still great, they are just no longer criminally good. 

 

I did not mean to say they are not good. I meant that now that Doctrines etc. give access to other and cheaper way to field plasma effectively, they are less of a must-take. Not to mention FW shenanigans, which at the moment give you Elysians (these will be the new spam for waac lists, I guess), and also sources of +1 BS for cheaper plasma. But fair, I'll clarify in the Scions entry.

 

Even the maligned servitors are a great way to bring effectively 19-point plasma cannon heavy weapon teams with a 4+ Sv who ignore multi-wound attacks.  If you are bringing a techpriest to sit behind some artillery or a superheavy to keep it repaired, throwing a servitor team within 6" is a no-brainer.  

 

Not really. At minimum you pay 8 for the servitors + 24 for the (completely useless) servo-arms + 30 for the plasma = 62 for two 'plasma teams' that will evaporate under fire and cannot take orders or doctrines. Not that great. Catachan/Cadian tanks are where you want plasma cannons now.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Feral_80

[N1SB]

I looked through my friend's copy of the AM codex yesterday and I just want to congratulate you long-time Imperial Guard players.  This is the most impressive codex, even counting previous editions of the game, not just 8th.  I even liked the effort going into the "Regiments of Distinction" bit, with distinct new art and conversions.

 

With the flexibility of the new Detachments system, I'll probably be toying with 1 or 2 AM Detachments myself, just some light converting.

 

Great overview!  Thanks for taking the time to give your insight on the new book.  I am totally stoked to be assembling my new guard models right now and hope to be painted and playing them very soon. 

 

Two questions: 

 

I don't have my forgeworld imperial armor yet and was wondering about the lack of vehicle key word on the Earthshaker Platform as most of the buildings I have seen do have the vehicle key word. Possibly a print error to be fixed by faq? Or possibly on purpose to tone it down a little?

 

What do you think of the cyclops demolition vehicle?

 

Hi, just responding in the spirit of being helpful.

 

The "Earthshaker Battery" (I totally know what you mean, I'm just going by how it's written in the book) does lack both the Vehicle and Building keyword.  And now that you mention it, I feel it's NOT a print error/accident, I do think it's on purpose to tone it down a little.  It's like it's deliberately cheap so that it can't interact with Tank Commander orders, for that you want to get the Basilisk (same gun, but it's actually on a Vehicle, and thus gets the keyword).  On the other hand the Earthshaker Battery still has the <REGIMENT> keyword so it can get the Regimental Doctrines.

 

Edit - I made an error, sorry, thanks for the correction.

 

The Cyclops is curious, and just as the Earthshaker Battery compares with the Basilisk, the Cyclops compares with the Manticore with its 4 rockets, except it doesn't have to roll to hit, it just has to get there.  Since the Manticore can only fire 1 per turn on a 4+, a Cyclops might be worth considering.  When I started playing and watching games of 8th, I did note maybe Vehicle explosions are something that needs to be accounted for, in that it can swing the balance of games.  It might be a deterrent against rush armies.  It's an odd tool in the toolbox, for sure.  I might give it the Armageddon Regimental Doctrine just to help it survive until it makes contact.

 

Vewy indredasting.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Not 1 Step Backwards

[CoffeeGrunt]

 Special Weapons Squad: now more interesting as a source of buffable cheap plasma. Lost the demo charge, but it was pretty useless already anyway.

 

Wait, really? I only got a quick skim through the 'Dex. If so, that sucks because I had some converted Demolitions guys I was planning to Grenadier to victory.

 

Ministorum Priest: a great, but not *that* cheap, support for many CC units. Essential in serious assaults, but not for small assault units as his cost essentially is almost worth another Bullgryn/more Death Riders etc.

 

 

I'm now of the mind that Priests aren't really worth including for a simple reason - they're too slow. Many times I've had them following Bullgryns to support them, the Bullgryns charge and get in, but the Priest then has to make the same charge at +2" range because they were standing behind them. They fail and so the Bullgryns are out of their 6" buff range. It only really seems to work when the Bullgryns themselves are charged, otherwise the support just can't keep up.

 

Armoured Sentinels: despite the improved stats, only bother in a Tallarn army.

 

 

I've found these very useful in my Tallarn army. I had one to fill in an FA slot with Missile Launcher for versatility, and it was an absolute bully on light vehicles, being able to skirt around and pop Kraks at them. 

[mertbl]

Coffeegrunt - tank commanders only order leman russ tanks.

[Truesight]

Great review, I'd like to offer some counterpoints however:

 

Tempestor Prime: Greenest of Green. With Regimental Doctrines Stormies get 16% more shots, already amazing. Give this guy the Laurels of Victory and now your plasma squads are re-rolling 1's to hit and on a 4+ rerolling all to wound rolls on vehicles and monsters. Terrifying.

 

Conscripts: They overall got a buff.  No points increase, regimental doctrines (5+ overwatch, s4 3 attacks?, Twin linked shots?).  30 man squads but that's ok. Absolutely green, still amazing.

 

Veterans: I'll say it. These are better than command squads.  I want 6 chaff bodies to soak hits. I want heavy flamers. Put these in Flamer Chimeras and play aggressive or outflank them with some tanks with Tu'sakh and Ambush! stratagem. 

 

Commissars: Green.  Best unit in the codex.  Are you running infantry? This is mandatory. 35 points for moral control other armies dream of.

 

So much exciting things in this codex, so much flexibility in play style.  Love it.

[Halfpint100]

Coffeegrunt - tank commanders only order leman russ tanks.

It says "friendly leman russ" the tank commander is a "freliendly leman russ"

[Feral_80]

Great review, I'd like to offer some counterpoints however:

 

Tempestor Prime: Greenest of Green. With Regimental Doctrines Stormies get 16% more shots, already amazing. Give this guy the Laurels of Victory and now your plasma squads are re-rolling 1's to hit and on a 4+ rerolling all to wound rolls on vehicles and monsters. Terrifying.

 

Conscripts: They overall got a buff.  No points increase, regimental doctrines (5+ overwatch, s4 3 attacks?, Twin linked shots?).  30 man squads but that's ok. Absolutely green, still amazing.

 

Veterans: I'll say it. These are better than command squads.  I want 6 chaff bodies to soak hits. I want heavy flamers. Put these in Flamer Chimeras and play aggressive or outflank them with some tanks with Tu'sakh and Ambush! stratagem. 

 

Commissars: Green.  Best unit in the codex.  Are you running infantry? This is mandatory. 35 points for moral control other armies dream of.

 

So much exciting things in this codex, so much flexibility in play style.  Love it.

 

 

Hmm.

 

Tempestor Prime: to get the exploding hits, you need a separate detachment. To make that count, you'll want to go Battalion. That is not bad at all per se, but it simply means that now if you go MT you are encouraged to take quite a sizable force, at least 3 small Scions (and likely a 4th as a Command squad, because they are so good). Not a fan at all of 'wasting' the Laurels of Victory on a suicide squad, as powerful as it *may* be (50% of the times). It's likley that it won't survive a second turn, and I much prefer to keep the Laurels in my main gunline, where hopefully it can benefit various units for several turns.

 

Conscripts: fair enough. I just never liked to use them, and I quite despite the playstyle associated with them.

 

Vets: if you want flamers, go Special weapons squad and avoid paying for a useless BS 3+. If you want heavy flamers, go Command squads. The extra bodies won't help you, they'll still die like normal guardsmen. And a Chimera/Valkyrie  can hold 2x sws or 3x cs, instead of 10 vets with some support. Sorry, but I still think Vets are a secondary choice.

 

Commissars: they cost almost as much as an extra infantry squad, and I'm not sure they are 100% worth it in this case. Their limited radius means you'll likely need 2 at least. Many other doctrines/equipment/auras already buff Leadership, so many armies won't really see Commissars as mandatory. They are essential with Conscipts of course, but see above.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Coffeegrunt - tank commanders only order leman russ tanks.

 

I didn't mention Leman Russ tanks?

 

Tempestor Prime: Greenest of Green. With Regimental Doctrines Stormies get 16% more shots, already amazing.

 

Not really. On the drop, only the Plasma Gun and Grenade Launcher benefit from their Regimental Doctrine:

 

- Flamer: Doesn't roll to Hit, can't benefit,

- HS Lasgun: Needs to be within 9". Can't do that on the drop, but can if you walk up to them,

- HS Volleygun: If you move it is -1 to Hit and thus you can't roll 6s. Doesn't get it on the drop or if you move,

- Meltagun: Too short-ranged to use on the drop, but an extra shot if walking up could be devastating,

- Plasma Gun: Benefits fully,

- Grenade Launcher: Benefits fully, but who runs these on Scions?

[Khornestar]

*edit*

 Now I get it, please disregard my comment.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Juggernut

[Truesight]

 

Hmm.

 

Tempestor Prime: to get the exploding hits, you need a separate detachment. To make that count, you'll want to go Battalion. That is not bad at all per se, but it simply means that now if you go MT you are encouraged to take quite a sizable force, at least 3 small Scions (and likely a 4th as a Command squad, because they are so good). Not a fan at all of 'wasting' the Laurels of Victory on a suicide squad, as powerful as it *may* be (50% of the times). It's likley that it won't survive a second turn, and I much prefer to keep the Laurels in my main gunline, where hopefully it can benefit various units for several turns.

 

Conscripts: fair enough. I just never liked to use them, and I quite despite the playstyle associated with them.

 

Vets: if you want flamers, go Special weapons squad and avoid paying for a useless BS 3+. If you want heavy flamers, go Command squads. The extra bodies won't help you, they'll still die like normal guardsmen. And a Chimera/Valkyrie  can hold 2x sws or 3x cs, instead of 10 vets with some support. Sorry, but I still think Vets are a secondary choice.

 

Commissars: they cost almost as much as an extra infantry squad, and I'm not sure they are 100% worth it in this case. Their limited radius means you'll likely need 2 at least. Many other doctrines/equipment/auras already buff Leadership, so many armies won't really see Commissars as mandatory. They are essential with Conscipts of course, but see above.

 

It's true, Scions want a detachment, but they're worth it.  Even a patrol is fine if you won't want to invest.  

 

Commissars are 100% worth it. Conscripts of course love them but combined squads too.  One of the new things I'm going to be trying out is combining 4 infantry squads by turn 3 for order efficiency/ weapon conservation.  Commissars mean your enemy has to kill everything if they want those special/power weapons. 

Maybe it's my playstyle talking (I like 100 bodies) but they are such a force multiplier it's silly.

 

 

Not really. On the drop, only the Plasma Gun and Grenade Launcher benefit from their Regimental Doctrine:

 

- Flamer: Doesn't roll to Hit, can't benefit,

- HS Lasgun: Needs to be within 9". Can't do that on the drop, but can if you walk up to them,

- HS Volleygun: If you move it is -1 to Hit and thus you can't roll 6s. Doesn't get it on the drop or if you move,

- Meltagun: Too short-ranged to use on the drop, but an extra shot if walking up could be devastating,

- Plasma Gun: Benefits fully,

- Grenade Launcher: Benefits fully, but who runs these on Scions?

 

Good point on the doctrine.

 

All those weapons love rerolls to wounds though.  Melta guns especially are savage.

 

Another thing I'll throw out about Laurels: Additional orders trigger additional 4+'s.  It's possible you might get a FRFSRF in there as well.

[Truesight]

How is everyone running their Russes now?

 

Outflanking Tallarn Commanders with flamers in Punishers and Demolishers looks incredibly tasty, if expensive.

 

Cheap but punchy Catachan tanks with no sponsons?

 

Vostroyan Executioners loaded with plasma and +1 to hit?

 

Free reroll Cadian Sitzkrieg tanks?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Personally I'm enjoying an Executioner Commander with all the trimmings under Tallarn rules. I've mostly been using light vehicles and artillery though.

[OnboardG1]

Biggest con for guard this edition: Everything is out of blasted stock again. All I want is a hellhound to start my Ork Hunters off with a fwoosh.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Thanks for the time to write up this review, Feral_80.

 

Did I read your review correctly that Rough Riders are no more?

 

If so, I'm completely crushed. I've been suffering from "hobby burnout" for a couple months, I finally started to poke my head out of my foxhole with the rumblings I was hearing about the new codex. Reading about regimental doctrines (and specifically Mordian) inspired me to pull out my very slow-built Praetorians for the first time in months Saturday evening. But reading this review and of the demise of RR's has crushed my hobby spirit again 

 

I'll get over it. Praetorian cavalry would have cost and arm and a leg to assemble, plus this gives me free slots to spend on sentinels and the much improved Hellhounds, but still ...   

[duz_]

Rough Riders are indeed gone from the codex (we did gain some random units in their place, Crusaders and Ogryn Body guards??)

However if you still wanted to work on the project there's no reason you can use their entry from the index or have them as DKoK Death Riders ;) 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Mate you can still run them as in the Index and they still benefit from Regimental Doctrines, they're just not put in the Codex itself because they don't have models.