What is the truth about the Alpha Legion?

[Jagus Kumkani]

I am lacking in the lore pertaining to the truth of the Alpha Legion. But I want to know as of yet what is it we know?

 

Who are the Alpha truly aligned with?

Where is Alpharius and Omegon?

What have they and the Alpha Legion done as a whole in the present setting in 40k?

 

If you guys could kindly fill me in, that would be awesome. I know you lore guys are out there!

[grailkeeper]

1. Deliberately vague

 

2

1. Killed by Dorn during the heresy, 2 still alive during the heresy but taking his brothers role with the heretics despite loyalist inclinations, possibly allowed himself to be killed by gulliman post heresy but this is debated both in and out of canon

 

3. Some are "standard" chaos marines, others are infiltrators and cult leaders specializing in insurgency, others have become [redacted].

 

As a legion they have suffered the most "Flanderisation" where they have been overtaken by the memes. I've heard a few BL heads say that this should be tackled. Yes they do have plans within plans- but ultimately they are a legion just as capable of putting bolters on the ground as any other. There's more to them than a legion of secret Illuminati James Bonds who  ensured that my mothers bus would be late, ensuring that she would meet my father, ensuring that I would be born, ensuring that this comment would be made.

Edited October 20, 2017 by grailkeeper

[RobMac]

As a legion they have suffered the most "Flanderisation" where they have been overtaken by the memes. I've heard a few BL heads say that this should be tackled. Yes they do have plans within plans- but ultimately they are a legion just as capable of putting bolters on the ground as any other. There's more to them than a legion of secret Illuminati James Bonds who  ensured that my mothers bus would be late, ensuring that she would meet my father, ensuring that I would be born, ensuring that this comment would be made.

Not speaking on behalf of BL (and nor do I know policy one way or the other), but I agree very much with these sentiments. 

[bluntblade]

At least some are in the Eye of Terra as of Talon of Horus. I believe someone mentioned a prominent Alpha-Black Legionary?

[slitth]

As for the Alpha Legion's position.

I would say that they are a enemy to all.

 

It they have fallen to chaos, then they would want to conquer all. (but that a bit to cartoon villain like for my taste)

 

If they remain to to the concept of the pre HH imperium, then they would try and kill chaos because is see it a evil, but would also try to illuminate the current imperium because they lost the way.

 

There are of course other view and theories about the motivations that are just as valid.

But in the end it will probably boil down on simple fact, to the Alpha Legion you are either a tool to be use or a problem to be removed.

So leaves 3 type of person in the world, those that are part of the legion, those that are resources and those how we have yet to kill.

[no I'm alpharius]

[redacted]

[Ascanius]

Andy Clark's novel Shroud of Night features an Alpha Legion Harrow as protagonists. They are, in general, motivated by self-interest; they accept a mission from an Emperor's Children warlord because he got them off the daemon world they're stranded on, for instance, and promised to give them a ship of their own when they're done.

 

There's no hint that they're secret loyalists, for instance, or that they care about the Long War all that much. They're a lot more like First Claw than anyone in the Black Legion. Like First Claw, some of the members of the Harrow are more inclined towards serving the gods than others.

 

They end up apparently serving the Emperor's designs, or so Saint Celestine believes, but not because they think they should. The success of their mission is apparently foreseen.

[Dizzyeye01]

Andy Clark's novel Shroud of Night features an Alpha Legion Harrow as protagonists. They are, in general, motivated by self-interest; they accept a mission from an Emperor's Children warlord because he got them off the daemon world they're stranded on, for instance, and promised to give them a ship of their own when they're done.

 

There's no hint that they're secret loyalists, for instance, or that they care about the Long War all that much. They're a lot more like First Claw than anyone in the Black Legion. Like First Claw, some of the members of the Harrow are more inclined towards serving the gods than others.

 

They end up apparently serving the Emperor's designs, or so Saint Celestine believes, but not because they think they should. The success of their mission is apparently foreseen.

 

In all fairness, with the ending of Shroud of Night:

 

From what I read, Saint Celestine believes that the Harrow is serving the Emperors' design in what they were doing on the planet but doesn't show any indication that it is the same case for what remains of the whole legion. While the Harrow did play their part in having the planet fall they did save the beacon from being destroyed which is surely would've happened if she didn't try to stop the World Eaters' from breaking through to it.

 

As for the whole Alpha Legion, they are as splintered up as the rest of the legions who fell to Chaos, it's just the individual beliefs for each warband have a lot more variations. Some could still be believing in the plan which Alpharius set in motion with the Cabal and so believe themselves to be loyaltists but doing whats needed. Others' could have fallen in with what Horus believes and fully thrown themselves into Chaos. That's only two possible examples but there are a lot more.

[Jagus Kumkani]

So the more we know, we don't know.

 

Well I guess that's what makes the Alpha Legion who they are. Maybe its a good thing they're still shrouded in mystery.

I couldn't see how revealing any kind of official allegiance would benefit the lore. But then again I'm no BL writer.

I appreciate the comments gents.

 

I also heard that Omegon started the Grey Knights?

[Demus Ragnok]

So the more we know, we don't know.

 

Well I guess that's what makes the Alpha Legion who they are. Maybe its a good thing they're still shrouded in mystery.

I couldn't see how revealing any kind of official allegiance would benefit the lore. But then again I'm no BL writer.

I appreciate the comments gents.

 

I also heard that Omegon started the Grey Knights?

The theory was that Omegon could become Janus one of the first Grey Knight Grandmasters. There has been a story published (Last Son of Prospero) giving the origin of Janus however, and it has nothing to do with Omegon. Edited October 21, 2017 by Demus Ragnok

[Newtoncain]

Read "legion" by abbnet.

[Closet Skeleton]

I couldn't see how revealing any kind of official allegiance would benefit the lore. But then again I'm no BL writer.

I appreciate the comments gents.

 

 

The Chaos Space Marine codex is pretty clear that the 41st millennium Alpha Legion are chaos through and through.

[TheAlephNull]

I think many readers fail to recognize that any account of the Alpha Legion is going to be obfuscated by the nature of how their Harrows (and frankly, all effective wetworks) operate. Compound this with how the books are read through historical and human (flawed) recollections that lean both to traitor lies and imperial propaganda. 

 

The Black Library team tends to be incredibly well read, especially history and the classics. My great hope is that the Alpha Legion represents the two extremes in WWII of spymasters/agents like Juan Pujol Garcia and Otto Skorzeny (Autilon Skor?). The XX (Convenient, no?) Society in Great Britain played both sides of the conflict so well, that it took decades to firmly establish that they had ever been for Great Britain. The key was doing enough dirty work for the Nazis to appear highly effective, while keeping the most critical victories for the Allies. 

 

 

I hope this is the case for my beloved Legion. As Alpharius says in Legion, "The Alpha Legion has always been for the Emperor".

Edited October 23, 2017 by TheAlephNull

[Kinstryfe]

I think the tragedy of the XX by the time 40k rolls around is that their self sufficiency is essentially what led them to being essentially a shattered legion. Their training emphasizes that every level of the Legion should know how to continue if leadership is removed. The problem is that it seems to have led to the XXth being splintered into who knows how many warbands, each under the control of a leader who is doing what they thought they should be in the absence of higher leadership. So while A-O may have had (conflicting) visions for the legion, over enough time and enough changes of leadership these visions have been interpreted in myriad ways, some true to the "real vision" and some not. Their training, while undoubtedly an asset over the course of a battle or a campaign, became their undoing over millennia.

So some Captains knew that Alpharius planned for the cabal to win, and for humanity to be wiped out for the universal good.

But others knew that that was a trick to get their support and he was really for The Emperor.

But others knew he was really loyal to the Imperium first, and wanted what was best for it, even if it meant going against The Emperor.

While others still knew that he was loyal to Horus first, and would support him in any way possible.

Give it enough millennia and changes of leadership, and you get a fractured legion playing all sides for all sorts of reasons.

[Closet Skeleton]

When you come down to it, Chaos is where 40k is most a fantasy setting and deals with fantasy tropes about evil. Fantasy evil is above all a corrupting force.

 

Expecting the Alpha Legion to stay the way they were at the start of the Heresy is like expecting Emperor's Children to still be exemplars of nobility or the Death Guard to still be tyrant slayers. You can resist chaos only by outright rejecting it, if you side with it then you're its slave whether you realize it or not.

 

The longer you embrace evil, the less and less 'why' you embraced evil is relevant.

[rendingon1+]

I don't believe for a moment that AL would follow "cabal plan" for numerous reasons:

1. It's just plain stupid.

2. I'm sure that IF it ever was a thing, cabal plan was only known to higher echelons of the Legion during HH. Certainly it's not a kind of knowledge that should be avilable to a common legionary. There was also no need for that.

3. As mentioned before AL are too splintered and autonomic to follow any Legion agenda (except "death to the false emperor" lol), especially with "warband mentality" which is common to almost every traitor astartes faction.

4. Cabal goal is no longer (it never was) achievable.

[Taliesin]

So, best Alpha Legion novels so far?

 

Legion

Praetorian of Dorn

Seventh Serpent novella

Serpent Beneath novella ( in "Primarchs")

Wolf King

Deliverance Lost

Shroud of Night

 

What am I missing? Upcoming in January: Sons of the Hydra.

[TheAlephNull]

So, best Alpha Legion novels so far?

 

Legion

Praetorian of Dorn

Seventh Serpent novella

Serpent Beneath novella ( in "Primarchs")

Wolf King

Deliverance Lost

Shroud of Night

 

What am I missing? Upcoming in January: Sons of the Hydra.

The Harrowing, eShort by Rob Sanders is very good.

[rendingon1+]

"Liar's due" from Age of Darkness anthology.

[carlisimo]

The Cabal's plan never made sense to me.  The Emperor wants to save humanity (goal).  Saving humanity means starving Chaos (means towards that goal).

The Cabal comes in says: to starve Chaos, allow humanity to be destroyed!

How is that a plan that satisfies the Emperor's goal?  

Anyway, it seems that both primarchs eventually give up on that plan.  After that, it looks like they're working to secure their legion as a powerful force in the galaxy by letting everyone else destroy each other.  But they must have goals beyond that if Omegon is doing things like clearing a path for the White Scars to hear from Dorn even if it means battling Alpharius's legionnaires.  The internal strife is more obvious in the Seventh Serpent.

Not being able to understand what they're working towards has been a problem; it kept me from starting an Alpha Legion army.  I was just too hesitant to give it a story in case we get more information.

[rendingon1+]

Why not the easiest explenation?

AL just can't live without strife, breaking order, turning brothers versus brothers. This is their game and they revell in it. It's in their blood. Horus Heresy gave them new possibility - to test themselves against the Imperium (and Horus' side too lol). And AL love challenges. Imperium of Man is basically their playground, tens of thousands of worlds that can be broken in as many elborate, convoluted, insidious and ingenious ways as they want. They love it and that's it.

I do realize they are not unified force, on the contrary if anything it is the AL's greatest strenght to operate as a splinters. Since before the heresy they were able to think for themselves, adapt, plan and work as a part of the Legion or as individuals (unlike any others). Entire world can be put to riot by a single legionnary.

 

However sure, there are many factions in the Legion some might be close to DA fallen, thinking they went a bit too far and just try to survive (my impression of Shroud of Night), some might be hardcore chaos worshippers, some others might <insert whatever you want>.

 

TL;DR: they do wht they do because they can do it, want to do it and love to do it. Not everything has to be a part of grand epic scheme. Or mayby it is?

[Petitioner's City]

One thing that would be nice on the table is more options for different stage of chaotic, corrupt or stage of loss in a heretic astates force. Overarching degrees of corruption that would give and take options for an army, finally answering what happened to all the whirlwinds and the like? One that allows a seemingly loyalist/barely corrupt alpha legion force - and one that allows full ballsonthewall chaosery for another. Like a moder version of the 2nd edition codex? Not overarching and limiting legion identities as in 3.5 but a more inquisitor or necro/2nd edition freedom-with-costs model.

 

Sounds like the Heresy game (with the intersecting limitations of legions, rites of war, loyalist/traitor/blackshield)... But hard to work out.

 

And this was only tangentially related to this discussion - but there is a disruption, possibly, between codex AL and fluff AL, except for certain rules.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Petitioner's City

[Ascanius]

The Cabal's plan never made sense to me.  The Emperor wants to save humanity (goal).  Saving humanity means starving Chaos (means towards that goal).

 

The Cabal comes in says: to starve Chaos, allow humanity to be destroyed!

 

How is that a plan that satisfies the Emperor's goal?

 

It isn't, but the Cabal's argument is that the Acuity shows that the Emperor's plan cannot succeed.

[slitth]

 

The Cabal's plan never made sense to me.  The Emperor wants to save humanity (goal).  Saving humanity means starving Chaos (means towards that goal).

 

The Cabal comes in says: to starve Chaos, allow humanity to be destroyed!

 

How is that a plan that satisfies the Emperor's goal?

 

It isn't, but the Cabal's argument is that the Acuity shows that the Emperor's plan cannot succeed.

 

 

The Emperor goal it to fight chaos. And the logical goal of the struggle it to defeat chaos.

But defeating chaos is an utopian goal, it a dream that cannot be truly be fulfilled.

 

Yet that does not stop "people" from dreaming about total victory over chaos.

Even the Cabal is not beyond wishful thinking, after all they are so desperate for help that they think they can trust or control the Alpha Legion.

 

Besides I highly doubt that the Emperor or the Alpha Legion believes in total victory over chaos.

After all the Alpha Legion, Night Lords and Space Wolves are made for maintaining the status quo.

As spies, judges and executioner.

[Ascanius]

Were they, though? Or is that a widespread misconception?