8th edition wish list

[Bulwyf]

I hope we see cost decease in Wulfen and TWC. After playing more games recently with my SW it really hit home that Wulfen and TWC are almost the only things that set SW apart from other SM armies.

[Guest]

Eh I hope we just get new units from the 13th rather than "let's make full armies of wolf". To be fair to GW it's hard to balance SM when they are supposed to be all equal. Another thing I would like is unique Primaris grey hunters. Storm shield and power weapons.

[Gherrick]

I'd be down with primaris WG, and primaris bikers would be very nice indeed. The main thing I see lacking in primaris for the SW is the lack of gear customization, especially the non-troop units. One of our hallmark traits is letting each model be distinct, both in form and fashion. This should carry over to SW primaris, as well.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Unless they pull something else out of the fluff hat (like the 'real' 13th, none of this all Wulfen or time lock stuff), I reckon the fans are overhyping the the 'omg the 13th are back'.

 

They pulled what, a couple of hundred tops from the time lock thing in Ashes, plus a handful or Heresy era bits of gear? That isn't actually all that many, especially as new GW fluff is consuming Marines by the handful like sweets at an RPG session. I'd be flabbergasted if they let the Wolves have the Heresy gear, as that'd either mean FW models in a GW Codex, or a bunch of resin kits transitioning to plastic. Then there's the Marines themselves. How mechanically different are these new/old 13th? Yes they'll have a different mindset to the modern Wolves, but that's more of a fluff/plot thing than crunch. Is a Grey Slayer really that distinct in game terms from a Grey Hunter? They aren't the EoT-era 13th, veteran killers to put the best of the Traitor Legions to shame, they're just regular Legion Marines out of time. Hell, given how quick the GC was, there's probably a bunch of 40k Wolves who've seen more combat and served for longer than Bulveye's men.

 

One thing I really hope they don't do is more 'melee and shield only' units, Primaris or otherwise. It's one of those little niggles with 40k for me. everyone should have a gun. Yes, shield and blade are fine, but carry a bolter too, or at least a pistol.

 

But really, I'd be happy with a dex that doesn't leave me thinking 'why am I playing Wolves again?', which has been increasingly the case as GW themes the army more around the things I don't like, TWC, new Wulfen, and more of a 'Fantasy army in 40k' theme than 'Norse themed Space Marines'.

[Brutallica]

 

I would be disappointed if we didn't get Company tactics. We already had them and we can see that a faction design in 8th is mimicking a lot of what the end of 7th was. Not getting Company tactics would be a step back for our Army. And I hope DA and BA get some equivalence with that. DA should have "wing" tactics and BA will probably have stuff for their successors.

 

Above all else I want our Primarch back, just like all the other Chapters are hoping. But may not happen. I would be disappointed but not mad if we have to wait longer for him. If we don't get Russ or Company tactics GW should just give us some relics/stratagems in Chapter Approved and let us wait longer until they want to develop some more in depth rules. I can wait if it means getting a better product. I do have a lot of faith in Simon Grant and the general direction GW has taken lately. I am sure that whatever we get I will be happy with.

 

I want scouts to become useful and maybe even a troop choice. They don't do anything that merits an elite slot. BEL is way worse than what codex scouts can do.

 

I want points reductions for a lot of stuff. Our high costed stuff just doesn't cut it these days. That goes for a lot of "elite" armies.

 

I want to stop sounding like a millennial stereotype. Haha.

 

I do play in a competitive area so I have some competitive wants too. Competitive armies these days have access to hordes, morale shenanigans, smite/mortal wound spam, and crazy efficient killing units. I want something that can go toe-to-toe with that.

 

You will be dissapointed.

 

I think dissapointed is what we all will be to be honest.

[Guest]

Unless they pull something else out of the fluff hat (like the 'real' 13th, none of this all Wulfen or time lock stuff), I reckon the fans are overhyping the the 'omg the 13th are back'.

 

They pulled what, a couple of hundred tops from the time lock thing in Ashes, plus a handful or Heresy era bits of gear? That isn't actually all that many, especially as new GW fluff is consuming Marines by the handful like sweets at an RPG session. I'd be flabbergasted if they let the Wolves have the Heresy gear, as that'd either mean FW models in a GW Codex, or a bunch of resin kits transitioning to plastic. Then there's the Marines themselves. How mechanically different are these new/old 13th? Yes they'll have a different mindset to the modern Wolves, but that's more of a fluff/plot thing than crunch. Is a Grey Slayer really that distinct in game terms from a Grey Hunter? They aren't the EoT-era 13th, veteran killers to put the best of the Traitor Legions to shame, they're just regular Legion Marines out of time. Hell, given how quick the GC was, there's probably a bunch of 40k Wolves who've seen more combat and served for longer than Bulveye's men.

 

One thing I really hope they don't do is more 'melee and shield only' units, Primaris or otherwise. It's one of those little niggles with 40k for me. everyone should have a gun. Yes, shield and blade are fine, but carry a bolter too, or at least a pistol.

 

But really, I'd be happy with a dex that doesn't leave me thinking 'why am I playing Wolves again?', which has been increasingly the case as GW themes the army more around the things I don't like, TWC, new Wulfen, and more of a 'Fantasy army in 40k' theme than 'Norse themed Space Marines'.

Even a couple hundred is a huge improvement over the current SW army. With 2 whole companies wiped out, and all the others being gravely damaged, a couple hundred is a pretty big deal right now. The Fenrisian population is recoverable but not if the SW want to recover their number quickly. As Grimnar puts it "dragging blood from the rocks". Plus it's not just the warriors it's the culture they bring, that can spread throughout the rest of the chapter and give new recruits or Primaris an opportunity to use the old ways of war. 13th come from an era that didn't worship machine spirits and had access to forgotten/rare tech. Bringing maybe Grey Slayer style (bolt pistol, shield, and melee weapon), to the troop option.

 

13th company also brings the viking culture that you and I crave. If it is another codex of TWC, Wulfen and fantasy wolf, I may find myself using another codex in wolf skin. I would love to be a fly on the wall when they discuss SW stuff at GW HQ. It seems a large majority is tired of the wolf theme, yet GW keeps driving at it. Thus I fully expect to be dissapointed.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Even a couple hundred is a huge improvement over the current SW army. With 2 whole companies wiped out, and all the others being gravely damaged, a couple hundred is a pretty big deal right now. The Fenrisian population is recoverable but not if the SW want to recover their number quickly. As Grimane puts it "dragging blood from the rocks". Plus it's not just the warriors it's the culture they bring, that can spread throughout the rest of the chapter and give new recruits or Primaris an opportunity to use the old ways of war. Grey Slayers come from an era that didn't worship machine spirits and had access to forgotten/rare tech. Bringing maybe Grey Slayer style (bolt pistol, shield, and melee weapon), to the troop option.

 

13th company also brings the viking culture that you and I crave. If it is another codex of TWC, Wulfen and fantasy wolf, I may find myself using another codex in wolf skin. I would love to be a fly on the wall when they discuss SW stuff at GW HQ. It seems a large majority is tired of the wolf theme, yet GW keeps driving at it. Thus I fully expect to be dissapointed.

 

Thing is though, as I've opined on before, those 2 Companies were lost over 100 years ago. There's no logical reason for the Wolves to be so hard up for numbers by now (and no 'damage to Fenris isn't a good example either', 100 years is a long time, and planets are huge), especially with Primaris ex machina. As for culture, why do you think this will mark the Wolves regressing to a pre-HH attitude, when their entire plot boils down to 'we need to drastically change'? I'd rather not have GW decide the 40k Wolves are wrong, Russ and Bjorn were wrong, and the Chapter needs to go back to how it was at Prospero. If anything the opposite is more likely, with the plot covering the Legionaries struggling to adapt to life in m42, with no difference in crunch. Either way, the fluff of the returning 13th is getting away from the point.

 

Just as a general thing, GW clearly want to push Primaris. So they're far more likely to be the focus of any new Wolf stuff than looking back to the past (both from a narrative, and model sense) with regular 13th Company Marines. Could I be wrong? Sure, it's happened before, and will happen again. I'm just counselling not reading too much into 'omg the 13th are back!', or expecting them to show up in crunch, as Primaris seem a much safer bet.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Honestly looking at all tgecreleases so far i anticipate we get a primaris upgrade sprue and if Russ is back then Russ, if Russ isn't back, a primaris character (named or not) or plastic Ragnar and that's that. Most of the releases have been very light on models as they are bringing everyone up to speed codex wise not model wise. I hope I'm wrong but this is about as high as I'm willing to put my hopes.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

 

 

I would be disappointed if we didn't get Company tactics. We already had them and we can see that a faction design in 8th is mimicking a lot of what the end of 7th was. Not getting Company tactics would be a step back for our Army. And I hope DA and BA get some equivalence with that. DA should have "wing" tactics and BA will probably have stuff for their successors.

 

Above all else I want our Primarch back, just like all the other Chapters are hoping. But may not happen. I would be disappointed but not mad if we have to wait longer for him. If we don't get Russ or Company tactics GW should just give us some relics/stratagems in Chapter Approved and let us wait longer until they want to develop some more in depth rules. I can wait if it means getting a better product. I do have a lot of faith in Simon Grant and the general direction GW has taken lately. I am sure that whatever we get I will be happy with.

 

I want scouts to become useful and maybe even a troop choice. They don't do anything that merits an elite slot. BEL is way worse than what codex scouts can do.

 

I want points reductions for a lot of stuff. Our high costed stuff just doesn't cut it these days. That goes for a lot of "elite" armies.

 

I want to stop sounding like a millennial stereotype. Haha.

 

I do play in a competitive area so I have some competitive wants too. Competitive armies these days have access to hordes, morale shenanigans, smite/mortal wound spam, and crazy efficient killing units. I want something that can go toe-to-toe with that.

 

You will be dissapointed.

 

I think dissapointed is what we all will be to be honest.

 

 

Interesting to see my post from October get unearthed haha.

 

My hopes and expectations have changed since then. We have seen some Codex releases since then and now I have a better idea of how GW does these releases.

Company tactics are not as important to me. I would rather have a cohesive codex. It doesn't have to be complicated to be decent. Part of me does still want Companies after seeing how successful the Dark Eldar Obsessions became. But that's a codex of sub-factions and they needed a little extra help.

 

I still expect Russ back. They're saving us until the end for something. After reading Chris Wraight's Leman Russ I expect a "Long-Fang" Russ as was portrayed as the post-Scouring Russ.

 

Scouts may be improved. A lot of under-performing units have gotten some attention. Some have been ignored. I expect scouts to be ignored. My scouts have been in their case since our 5th edition codex release so whatever.

 

We already got points reductions in Chapter Approved. Maybe more will come? Please God-Emperor do something about Rune Priest Points...

 

As for how competitive our codex can be, well I think our index has good bones to be competitive after codex treatment. A Primarch release isn't going to do it. Bobby G may be the best model in the game but he still isn't getting Marines to top finishes in tournaments. Stratagems are what make or break a codex these days.

 

I still don't think GW knows how to do a power-armor codex in 8th edition. Custodes was a good release but not really "power armor". We will have to see what happens with codex Death Watch. I don't know how much insight we will gain from that because that's another atypical release.

[Guest]

One thing I am not happy about GW doing is the lack of Primaris release and releases in general. They have given us Custodes, the armiger, and a one new necron, since 8th release off the top of my head. Meanwhile AOS has had some pretty big releases and supposedly more in June when our codex or the orks is supposed to drop. Both factions that have much justification in getting new models. I am hoping this AOS June release is all BS and someone in 40k is getting new models.

 

Edit: I remember when people were groaning that every few months was a Sigmarines release, now that we have Primaris we haven't seen that same issue, we just haven't seen any releases. So this may be the root of my issue with this whole deal.

[Karhedron]

I guess that they are putting most of their effort into updating all the codices for 8th rather than churning out new models. They have also released an entire new Death Guard army so it is not as sparse as it appears and their is Knights coming soon. That is 4 new/expanded armies in the space of a year on top of all the revamped codices so not too shabby IMHO.

[GrFlur]

Valkeries

 

something like

 

you can't deploy them on neither deployment zone

 

you can include 1 model in your army for each 5 infantry troops (limit 10 or 5 or whatever limit works)

 

you can only deploy them when the number of models x 5 => your infantry troops dead (yes dead, not gone ) inmediatly when the number is correct (no matter turn) wherever (remeber, no deplo zones)

 

Equip them with shield and axes or hammers or CC weapons. no distance weapons allowed (Energy/Frost Bows?)

 

They can "absorb" wounds from "basic" infantry units (BC, GH) in range

 

You can't use them with wulfen, wolf cavalry or Fenrisian wolves (even the 2 from ragnar or logan)

[Guest Triszin]

Valkeries

 

something like

 

you can't deploy them on neither deployment zone

 

you can include 1 model in your army for each 5 infantry troops (limit 10 or 5 or whatever limit works)

 

you can only deploy them when the number of models x 5 => your infantry troops dead (yes dead, not gone ) inmediatly when the number is correct (no matter turn) wherever (remeber, no deplo zones)

 

Equip them with shield and axes or hammers or CC weapons. no distance weapons allowed (Energy/Frost Bows?)

 

They can "absorb" wounds from "basic" infantry units (BC, GH) in range

 

You can't use them with wulfen, wolf cavalry or Fenrisian wolves (even the 2 from ragnar or logan)

Valkeries

- Inceptors

builds

1. dual helfrost blasters

2. current dual storm bolters

3. Helfrost spear and pistol/shield

 

 

Rune priests

- Warp Wolves: cast buffs cyber wolves and fenrisian wolves, adds +1-ap, +2 str, +1 atk

[Guest Triszin]

strategem:

The Murder Make

2cp

selected unit has +1 to wound for the duration of the round

 

 

Ice Bridge:

1cp

The stormfang gunship may attack a terrain piece, so long as it confers a dangerous terrain roll.

on a 6, the terrain is treated as normal terrain for the rest of the game

 

helfrost:

on a wound of a 6, the targeted unit must make a dangerous terrain roll, even if they have a rule making them immune.

if the unit fails the terrain roll it takes d3 mortal wounds, in addtion to the dangerous terrain failure

[Gherrick]

Helfrost mostly just needs to be uncoupled from any "unsaved wound" shenanigans. A simple but elegant "on a wound roll of a 6, increase the damage by 1" would work. It doesn't have to be a mortal wound, IMO. There's too much of that already.

[lonewolf81]

I would also like to see some great company tactics in order to have options to play wolves in different ways

 

I would suggest something like

 

IRONWOLVES

 

Armoured Assault : Units with this great company tactic can disembark from a transport after the transport  has moved (but not if it has advanced the previous movement phase)

 

Stratagem (overwhealming firepower 1CP) :Use this stratagem during the shooting phase.  Select an ironwolves vehicle, it treats all of its weapons as assault weapons until the end of the phase. 

 

DEATHWOLVES

 

Agile Hunters : Units with this great company tactic can advance and charge , furthermore they can reroll failed charge rolls

 

Stratagem (Cunning predators 1 CP ): Use this stratagem at the end of your movement phase.Choose a unit of thunderwolves, fenrisian wolves or wulfen , remove it from the board and place them wholly within 12" of any board edge and more than 9" from enemy models.

 

OLD WOLV ES (13th company)

 

Murder make:  Units with this great company tactic when they roll 6s to hit in close combat they score 1 addtional hit for each 6 rolled (those additional hits do not generate extra hits)

 

Stratagem (Enhanced Reflexes 2CP): Use this stratagem at the beginning of the charge phase. Choose an infantry unit, it gains +1 to hit and the fly keyword until the end of the phase
 

[Guest Triszin]

I would also like to see some great company tactics in order to have options to play wolves in different ways

 

I would suggest something like

 

IRONWOLVES

 

Armoured Assault : Units with this great company tactic can disembark from a transport after the transport  has moved (but not if it has advanced the previous movement phase)

 

Stratagem (overwhealming firepower 1CP) :Use this stratagem during the shooting phase.  Select an ironwolves vehicle, it treats all of its weapons as assault weapons until the end of the phase. 

 

DEATHWOLVES

 

Agile Hunters : Units with this great company tactic can advance and charge , furthermore they can reroll failed charge rolls

 

Stratagem (Cunning predators 1 CP ): Use this stratagem at the end of your movement phase.Choose a unit of thunderwolves, fenrisian wolves or wulfen , remove it from the board and place them wholly within 12" of any board edge and more than 9" from enemy models.

 

OLD WOLV ES (13th company)

 

Orgy of slaughter :  Units with this great company tactic when they roll 6s to hit in close combat they score 1 addtional hit for each 6 rolled (those additional hits do not generate extra hits)

 

Stratagem (Enhanced Reflexes 2CP): Use this stratagem at the beginning of the charge phase. Choose an infantry unit, it gains +1 to hit and the fly keyword until the end of the phase

 

I would change the name of the old wolves ability to

 

Murder make.

 

russ and old heresy era wolves liked to refer to slaughter as murder make

[greysquigg]

I'm sort of crossing my fingers for Bjorn getting an invulnerable save relic... "belt of russ after a few cows" or "belt of russ pre atkins diet"

[lonewolf81]

Nice point Triszin

 

DRAKESLAYERS

 

Fierce eyes finest: Units with this great company tactic add 3" to their move and advance and suffer no penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons

 

Stratagem (Survival of the fittest 2CP) : Use this stratagem during your shooting phase, select a drakeslayers infantry unit, this unit can target enemy characters even if they are not the closest unit.

 

CHAMPIONS OF FENRIS

 

Kingsguard: Units with this great company tactic gain +1 Attack when they charge, get charged or when they heroicly intervene

 

Stratagem (sunder armor 3CP) : Use this stratagem when a champions of fenris infantry or cavalry unit fights in the fight phase. Invulnerble saves cannot be taken against wounds inflicted by that units attacks,  until the end of the phase

 

BLACKMANES

 

Claws of Russ : Units with this great company tactic have + 1 to wound the turn they arrive from reserves, furthermore units disembarking from drop pods can be deployed more than 6" of enemy models intead of 9" (the drop pod must still be deployed more than 9" away from enemy models)

 

Stratagem (Call of the Ancient 2CP) : Use this stratagem at the end of any of your movement phases once per battle. Select a blackmanes dreadnought deployed on the battlefield, remove it and place it anywhere within 3" of  a blackmanes drop pod. It counts as having arrived from reserves and disembarked from the drop pod.

[bluescope]

Bjorn:

* True claw should be x2 strength instead of +4.

* A legend leader should allow nearby units to reroll all failed hits.

* Please add ISV to our mighty hero.

* Bjorn is a living relic of SW. He should make nearby units pass morale test automatically. At least, use Bjorn's leadership to do morale test.

 

Ajarc:

* His thunderhammer can do 3 damage during melee.

 

Logan:

* Return the High King ability of 5th ED to him.

* Allow all nearby units to pass morale test automatically.

* Axe Morkai could do extra damage to psych. x2 mode should not reduce hit roll.

 

Scout:

A scout without infiltration? It's ridiculous. Please overhaul this unit. It can be our XV95 or pathfinder. 

 

 

[Guest]

Bjorn:

*

Huh?

[bluescope]

 

Bjorn:

*

Huh?

 

Click the wrong button

[Gherrick]

Bjorn's Trueclaw is +5, making his overall strength 12...good enough for shredding 99% of opponents on a 2+ hit (reroll 1s)/2+ wound (reroll all failed). With it being AP -4, most things don't even get a save, or at best a 6+ save.

 

He is totally fine offensively, he just needs something like a 4++ so his 8 wounds can actually mean something against lascannons. I feel that all ven dreads should get a 4++ along with CHARACTER keyword. Maybe then we would see some in play.

[Karhedron]

He is totally fine offensively, he just needs something like a 4++ so his 8 wounds can actually mean something against lascannons. I feel that all ven dreads should get a 4++ along with CHARACTER keyword. Maybe then we would see some in play.

If your opponent is shooting lascannons at Bjorn you are doing something wrong. Early game you should be making sure you have other targets between him and the enemy anti-tank, even a pack of Grey Hunters on foot will do if you can't afford an Axe/Shield Dread as a bodyguard. Late game you should hopefully have dealt with most of your opponent's anti-tank units. If you get to the late-game and your opponent has enough AT left to target Bjorn and you have nothing left to screen him, chances are you will not be pulling a win off anyway.

 

Ven Dreads for other Chapters are OK but are mainly taken for the 2+ BS as weapons platforms. Very tasty for Dark Angels or Raven Guard.

[Bulwyf]

Bjorn absolutely needs an invuln save. It is bonkers, literally bonkers, that the oldest functional dreadnought in the entire galaxy somehow doesn't have an invuln save but other SM armies get dreads with an invuln save. Bjorn should have a 4++ or at least as a bare minimum 5++