New codex coming this year...

[The Unseen]

Bleh.

Gotta keep gutting those loyalist chapters, so we can get people to buy more primaris kits.

 

The idea that the entire blood angel chapter and all the successors over the entire frikkin galaxy aren't enough to beat back a Hive Fleet, but it requires not 1, or 2, but 3 seperate deus ex machinas to save us (Gman and the Primaris marines, Khornate intervention, and a Warp Storm) and the Hive Fleet isn't even dead yet, just scattered.

Consider my hope of us being treated well dead and buried, both fluff and rules wise.

Edited November 14, 2017 by The Unseen

[brother_b]

I guess it's not very surprising to me after all, this whole Devastation of Ball. Has this been in the works (the lore/book) for a long time? I'm fresh back for 8th so wasn't up on any current lore.

 

My whole concern, after coming back and seeing primaris, was BA/SW/DA being forced to take primaris marines; making all my "regular marines" (I refuse to call them mini =/) obsolete; seeing the amazing BA kits going bye, bye, etc.

 

Now, with this book, it looks like that may be in store for us. I sure hope not. Especially after investing several hundred more dollars to get BA kits for the new edition, and being a fan of the flawed yet noble BA theme.

 

Yarg. 

[Panzer]

We won't be forced to take Primaris. Not even UM who have a Primaris as Codex Cover are forced to take them. It's not even very likely for us to get special Primaris with this Codex right now.

I really don't get how one can be this negative about everything we've heard so far.

[Lord_Caerolion]

From the looks of it, it's easier to create the standard Marines. I mean, they've got less organs to implant, right?

 

So I think fluff-wise, the Blood Angels may be reduced to 3 Companies or so, bulked up with Primaris, but rebuilding with a mix. Standard Marines are never going to vanish. Hell, I imagine there's probably a few Chapters out there with the view of "it was good enough for the Great Crusade, it's good enough for now", and telling Guilliman to move the Primaris over to the next Chapter that wants them.

[Bremon]

I have to agree with sfPanzer on this one; all the BA kits we love are going to be around for years and years. Will we see new mini marine kits? I doubt it. But we probably have 10 years to put together mini marine armies of the kits currently available. Devastation of Baal just helps them shoehorn Primaris into the lore. BA and successors will have both now; just like every other chapter, which means we can build our armies however we want and still all be square with the fluff.

 

As for BA and their successors not being enough to beat a hive fleet...that’s not surprising. Ultras barely did it if memory serves and they have way more successors than BA do. My only negativity towards that fluff is that it was chaos who helped out and not Necrons lol.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Ultra's was just them and the Segmentum Fleet, I believe, but was against Behemoth, a far more "primitive" Hive Fleet, with not as much time to adapt and evolve, compared to Leviathan, with the combined knowledge from Behemoth and Kraken, and all the genetic data it had picked up on the way to Baal.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, it does sound rather forced. A single Blood Raven strike cruiser with only one company and a bunch of forces stationed on the planet manage to stop a Hive Fleet, while a reunited Blood Angel LEGION could not. There are tragedies, but then there are forced scenarios like this...

 

One part of me wants to believe that GW is slowly working towards one single Primaris army book led by Guilliman and kill off all other Chapters. That part of me can go screw itself though. They are welcome to try though. I wonder how many people will leave the hobby if that happens :D

[Panzer]

Hivefleets are all different. They don't just vary in “styles“ but also in size, ressources and “knowledge“. Leviathan is without a doubt one of the biggest and mightiest ones.

[Jorre]

The unofficial leaks and speculation have been enough untill now to keep me checking the forums as often as I can and keep my interest level high!

 

Buuut Damn am I itching for some solid info/leaks/anything

 

Right now i would even settle for knowing who comes first BA or DA

[Guest]

We won't be forced to take Primaris. Not even UM who have a Primaris as Codex Cover are forced to take them. It's not even very likely for us to get special Primaris with this Codex right now.

I really don't get how one can be this negative about everything we've heard so far.

I think we are crossing paths of "Fluff" and "Tabletop". In the fluff it looks like "normal" BAs are done for, and Primaris has taken over. In the tabletop the "normal" BAs are still viable.

 

Since we are talking about devastation of Baal and the outcome, I went with the fluff concerning the Primaris taking over.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Caldersson

[Karhedron]

I fear if Primaris take over that BA. Not because the common "Primaris-hate", but because they don't share the characteristic of BAs. In my head I see BA jump packing into melee combat tearing into their enemies with chainswords. Primaris lack that Noble ferocity. Though maybe they will release unique BA's and DA's to give them their own flavor.

I don't think we have much to worry about. Dante is battered but still standing, I have not heard of any other SCs getting killed. Sanguinary Guard, Death Company and regular marines are all going to be around for the foreseeable future. Whatever the fluff says, we will still be able to run the same units as we did in 7th with the option to mix in some Primaris units if we feel like it. Our flavour won't change on the tabletop and in the fluff that will largely depend on your own head-canon.

[Quixus]

 Our flavour won't change on the tabletop

I sure hope it does. Regular marines with worse options is not a great flavour. For all its failings fluff wise, I really liked the tabletop flavour of the Ward dex.

[Cronhour]

Re Dante's Duel, as far as rules go a cheeky 6 damage overwatch (or pre charge) fusion pistol followed by combat and another fusion pistol shot and he's not doing too badly. I had a mephiston supported by corbulo embarrass a Brain bug in CC, before going on to decimate the hive guard and a load of gene stealers.

[Karhedron]

 

Our flavour won't change on the tabletop

I sure hope it does. Regular marines with worse options is not a great flavour. For all its failings fluff wise, I really liked the tabletop flavour of the Ward dex.

 

Flavour != Rules

 

By "flavour" I meant the overall theme of the army on the tabletop, not the rules implementation. The way I see it, our flavour is that Blood Angels are still Astartes but favour speed, maneuverability and close-ranged engagements as their preferred means of destroying an enemy.

 

I don't think there is any need to change the flavour of the Blood Angels, we are not suddenly going to turn into an army of long-ranged snipers. What needs to change is the way that flavour is implemented so that it is effective on the tabletop.

[Charlo]

 

 

Our flavour won't change on the tabletop

I sure hope it does. Regular marines with worse options is not a great flavour. For all its failings fluff wise, I really liked the tabletop flavour of the Ward dex.

 

Flavour != Rules

 

It doesn't for sure... BUT i'll tell ya what?

 

Death Guard have a metric tonne of flavour and rules all tightly bound to eachother. It's great. Hoping for that kind of treatment with BA.

[Guest]

 

I fear if Primaris take over that BA. Not because the common "Primaris-hate", but because they don't share the characteristic of BAs. In my head I see BA jump packing into melee combat tearing into their enemies with chainswords. Primaris lack that Noble ferocity. Though maybe they will release unique BA's and DA's to give them their own flavor.

I don't think we have much to worry about. Dante is battered but still standing, I have not heard of any other SCs getting killed. Sanguinary Guard, Death Company and regular marines are all going to be around for the foreseeable future. Whatever the fluff says, we will still be able to run the same units as we did in 7th with the option to mix in some Primaris units if we feel like it. Our flavour won't change on the tabletop and in the fluff that will largely depend on your own head-canon.

Not sure how much you can head-canon when you have the fluff already tells you the below...

 

Not that any further clarification were needed, but C:T is pretty unequivocal about how boned we are:

 

 

“Baal is saved, but at the cost of almost the entire Blood Angels Chapter.” 

 

 

 

“The Blood Angels were all but destroyed as a Chapter...”

 

 

I could head-canon that all the Wulfen died at warzone Fenris and we no longer have them, but I would be wrong. The lore is pretty flat out. Now maybe they will do a 180 like the did with Fenris population being 100% corrupted to only a little bit of the posting. I just don't want the fluff being "oh look BA are a bunch of Primaris with no defects and no unique units".

[Palwatch]

Is there any way to get this conversation back on track. Right now we are arguing over being forced to use primaris, which wont happen, a +1 charge trait that is dubious, and a host of other buthurt stuff that we are inferring from C-T. We dont know anything about our codex yet. At all. 1d4chan have a line in the tactica which says 'rumours suggest our codex is going to be great'. Would we be better off trying to get deffinitive facts and not degenrating into another spital of self pity.

 

Please?

[Bremon]

What constitutes being “on track”? A big hype circle of everyone saying they’re excited? Until Warhammer Community starts dropping tidbits this thread is dead without the complaining and talking each other back from the ledge lol.

[old git]

Just catching up with this thread as my BA successor collection isn't my main army. Must admit I'll be a bit peeved if the Knights of Blood are written out of existence just because they were once declared renegade. I thought they were brought back into the fold during the Tyranid campaign. I only have a modest KoB force but I do like to use it occasionally.

[Brother Crimson]

Could it be that the remaining sucessor chapters and the first founding merge together to make up the resonable numbers?

 

Regarding that, it seems that the Flesh Tearer made it out alive, perhaps Seth and the flesh tearers will have more weight in the fate of the chapter ?

 

As for primaris, in the codex space marine the ultramarine 2nd company have something like 25 primaris, if the ultras mix regular and primaris there is no reason that blood angels will be "forced" to go primaris marine.

[NTaW]

I recently sold all my vanilla marines, about a company's worth, to focus solely on the 1st Co. and all the fancy BA specific models. Seems like that was a timely choice!

[Panzer]

Just catching up with this thread as my BA successor collection isn't my main army. Must admit I'll be a bit peeved if the Knights of Blood are written out of existence just because they were once declared renegade. I thought they were brought back into the fold during the Tyranid campaign. I only have a modest KoB force but I do like to use it occasionally.

It's not like I can't understand you, but honestly...this is the kind of thinking that makes GW do all those big events that essentially lead to....nothing. Sure some things change on paper, the Konor system lost some planets, Mortarion has his own empire now, planets got sacrificed to slow down Leviathan and there's a huge warp rift through the galaxy now, but that's all just background noise that's not affecting us at all. At least Gathering Storm lead to Guilliman getting resurrected and Primaris arriving in the galaxy. That's actually finally a rather big change. Killing off minor successor chapters should be the smallest thing GW is willed to do to change the status quo.

 

At least the KoB got a worthy ending. They went out in glory sacrificing themselves for one of the most renown BA successor chapters in a fight they didn't have to fight as renegades. I see the positive side of it...now I can make a Primaris chapter in their model to honor their sacrifice. Extending their fluff way more than a simple "they fought there and survived" would have enabled me to. :)

[Karhedron]

It's not like I can't understand you, but honestly...this is the kind of thinking that makes GW do all those big events that essentially lead to....nothing. Sure some things change on paper, the Konor system lost some planets, Mortarion has his own empire now, planets got sacrificed to slow down Leviathan and there's a huge warp rift through the galaxy now, but that's all just background noise that's not affecting us at all. At least Gathering Storm lead to Guilliman getting resurrected and Primaris arriving in the galaxy. That's actually finally a rather big change.

Is a change not considered significant unless it leads to changes in models? There is plenty of fluff that is there for colour that does not directly affect the tabletop. The same criticism has been levelled at GW ever since the original Eye of Terror campaign. Some players were frothing that a significant Chaos win would result in Daemons being easier to summon in the next edition and things like that, totally ignoring the effect that would have on game balance. The 40K Universe is a setting to support the game and enable the sale of minis. GW are cautiously moving this to a more narrative setting but they want to be cautious and I do not blame them. I remember when White Wolf ran their "Gehenna" storyline which basically triggered the various doomsday scenarios they had hinted at in their various Vampire books. It was enjoyable briefly but basically destroyed the setting that they had spent years building up.

[old git]

But if I want to use them in a 'current' setting I'd be struggling to justify it. I'd hate for 50+ models to be invalidated just because they're in the wrong colours. Yeah, yeah, call 'em what you like but that's not the point.

[Damon Nightman]

Turns out they thought all the KoB were dead, but they forgot about that small battle force of about 50 marines that was sent off and got lost in the warp 100 years ago only to reappear right after the devastation of Baal...