New codex coming this year...

[Morticon]

Arrgghhh...makes me so damned nervous.

 

I'm not sure if the "you're going to get what you want" is amazing or or not. 

 

You have people like you-know-who touting the highly disagreeable nonsense he has been about the BA dex from day one of 8th (ie: first "character aura spam = amazing", then "jump plasma spam = amazing")   -  and if people with that little clue about the dex thinks its amazing and are as out of touch with what I believe is the bigger (if not biggest?) online BA community ....i'm really cautious. ...

 

 

but still.....hope burns bright, as it always will - dampened only by years of continued mistreatment.  I will hope this lifts us back to being an enjoyable, viable and veritable force in the broader meta, once again.  

 

[Quixus]

They even admitted that they do not know what we want (in the paraphrasing above at least), and given what they said about the last BA releases I am not getting my hopes up.

[Frater Cornelius]

Sounds like PR talk, to be fair. They promised us that 8ed was play-tested and amazing and how Marines are amazing and everything is amazing and still we get highly mixed responses, dodgy balancing and loss of identity more than anything else. As mentioned before, I am hopeful that BA and DA get something solid considering how IG and Nids got raised from low tier to top tier (verdict still out on Nids though). But I fear that this is more about how 8ed works and not the codices themselves.

 

Exuse me for not having faith in GW. I still consider their new policies to be very good, I have faith that they can make good PR moves now and in general I am liking the company. However, nothing changed in my view of their design team. I got my hopes up when they showed some of the cooler ideas of 8th and I still enjoy 8th over 7th, the mess that is in my opnion anyway, but nothing I have seen in terms of balance or design gives me reason to believe that they replaced the room full of chimps with functioning human beings (not literally, I still respect the people working there).

 

On the bright side, can't be worse than what BA got in 6th and 7th :D

Edited November 16, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[Spagunk]

In hind sight, I believe 7th ed BA were "fine", it was 7th edition in total that failed it :P. Power just skyrocketed after BA and just got ridiculous quickly. Almost like the designers were walking on eggshells to see if it worked and then at the end of the year, just completely jumped the shark with regards to formations/detachments and the like.

 

I'm rather pessimistic about the codex as I just don't trust a lot of people "in the industry" to get the army and why it's unique. I understand that in the past we weren't terribly different and only had token models/rules to signify us but once you give something to us (I.E. 4th/5th ed rules and units) its harder to give them back. 

 

With that said, I have no idea what FLG means by "you are getting what you wanted". Seconding Morticon's opinion in this regards. Guess we will see shortly after the RtS, eh?

[Frater Cornelius]

The reason I like BA is purely emotional and given their background, I can imagine this being the same for plenty of people. You can't represent something like that in the rules, no matter how well you 'get' it.

[Charlo]

Arrgghhh...makes me so damned nervous.

 

I'm not sure if the "you're going to get what you want" is amazing or or not. 

 

You have people like you-know-who touting the highly disagreeable nonsense he has been about the BA dex from day one of 8th (ie: first "character aura spam = amazing", then "jump plasma spam = amazing")   -  and if people with that little clue about the dex thinks its amazing and are as out of touch with what I believe is the bigger (if not biggest?) online BA community ....i'm really cautious. ...

 

 

but still.....hope burns bright, as it always will - dampened only by years of continued mistreatment.  I will hope this lifts us back to being an enjoyable, viable and veritable force in the broader meta, once again.  

 

Here here...!

 

It's utterly terrifying.

[Karhedron]

Not comfortable saying more than that, but if you are a Blood Angels player you're going to be stoked.

 

Blood Angels you guys are going to be getting what you want I can say that.

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[Palwatch]

Played a 3k game agaisnt guard last night. Without going into mission specifics, on T1 i faled 3 separate DS charges by 1 inch (rolled 8 3 times) with THSS termys that resulted in me drawing a game i should have won. Suddenly +1 charge didnt seem so bad

[Dont-Be-Haten]

In retrospect 6th edition was a godsend compared to the cancer that was 7th edition.

 

I still think 3rd and 5th were golden ages in the hobby. Remember when everyone had their knickers in a twist over double force org? Then 7th puked RIP tide wings just because they could. I got so tired of seeing them.

 

8th meta hasn't been terribly better. It's all Super Chickens, Primarchs and soup. The guy that one Warzone ATL at had some semblance of a pure list!

 

For me anything they produce will be fine for locals/basement games. But I have 0 hope, as of this posting, they can get us right on any tier 1 level without allies.

 

Geoff Osbourn who placed 9th overall brought a BAINO list, with 3 storm ravens, Dante, and some Tanks mixed with Astra Militarum, Assassin's, and some more soup and called it BA. Complete respect to him and I'm fine with that in the setting, but he really took Imperial Soup with red things and Dante rather than the "pure" list that Andrew Whittaker won with. Technically it was separate regiments of Imperial Guard, Krieg, and Vostroyan, by was still considered both fluffy and "pure"

 

THAT is my hope for BA. Being able to stare down primarchs, bugs, and fans off 40+ guardians deepstriking into my deployment and casting guide/doom/jinx and not getting tabled before turn 3.

[Panzer]

I disagree on 7th BA being good and only the edition itself being at fault. The 7th edition BA codex was incredibly bland with many redundant units. I lost interest in playing BA real quickly not because they were weak but because it was boring building lists with that Codex. I hate to say it but switching to T'au early on was the best decision I could make to keep me interested in actually playing 40k. That way I can now focus on building BA because I love their fluff and aesthetic, not because I actually plan to play and have fun with them (which I still of course do in case their Codex turns out to be good!).

[Spagunk]

I'd argue that a "bit bland" was what 40k needed at the time. But it just paled in comparison to what happened later. It was like a calming down of things which I thought was welcomed. My biggest issue was parity. It was okay that we didn't have all the other stuff because what we were quieting down from Wardism days.

 

But whatever, that time was over so no use treading that over again.

[Panzer]

There's a difference between toning down the power level and bland. The Blood Angel codex just had nothing going for it. Nothing particularly interesting that made me want to play with its rules. No game ever needs anything bland.

 

Anyway this thread is not about the old Codex, it's about the upcoming Codex. So enough offtopic from my side I think. :P

[TheHarrower]

Arrgghhh...makes me so damned nervous.

 

I'm not sure if the "you're going to get what you want" is amazing or or not. 

 

You have people like you-know-who touting the highly disagreeable nonsense he has been about the BA dex from day one of 8th (ie: first "character aura spam = amazing", then "jump plasma spam = amazing")   -  and if people with that little clue about the dex thinks its amazing and are as out of touch with what I believe is the bigger (if not biggest?) online BA community ....i'm really cautious. ...

 

 

but still.....hope burns bright, as it always will - dampened only by years of continued mistreatment.  I will hope this lifts us back to being an enjoyable, viable and veritable force in the broader meta, once again.  

 

 

 

100% this. Crazy for them to say that we'll get what we want, when people that have been playing for ages can't come to a consensus on what we should have and how the army should play. We'll see what happens. I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

At the local GW the Manager was telling me that the Stormtalon/Stormhawk is totally gone. Like you can't even order it anymore. Same thing on the GW site. I wonder if there will be some sort of repack with our Codex coming?

Edited November 16, 2017 by TheHarrower

[Morticon]

My thoughts (from what I can remember)

2nd ed: D

 

Dint play BA then - but can remember them being viable and scary as all marines were + their DC. 

 

3rd ed 

 

DEX:  VERY solid. In line with the SM dex, plus chapter bonuses that worked well within the system. Cool mechanic to lose men to DC or rage forward at times. Rhino rush was viable, and BA bonuses to disembarking made us even stronger.  Marine on Marine was in our favour on account of hitting first and wounding on 3s to reduce attacks incoming.  Our buffs worked with the system. 

Favoured a mix style list - devs, fighty tacs and jumpers/DC - a really well considered dex given the environment.

 

SYSTEM:- clunky and clumsy and a bit ham-fisted compared to 2nd, but . 

4th ed:   

 

DEX:  A PDF.  Not even a real codex.  It got a LOT of flak, but I was a huge fan of it - and ironically, loved the bubble play of Dante and Corbulo (albeit 12").  But again, they buffed a style that was incredibly viable within the system.  DC were solid, with rending too.   Not particularly well designed or considered, but it was still viable and there were options for BA players. Our "Chapter Tactics" still made us viable.

SYSTEM:- Similar to 3rd.  Minor changes - with the biggest change needing to come in 5th (with the odd "levels" of terrain abstraction).   But again, combat was viable, shooting was viable.  A combination of these would help. Mobility would help. 

 

5th ed:  (and 6th ed)

DEX:  A bit uninspired and bland, yet purposefully so.   We did get some new units and within the "one FOC" idea with no real ally system, this did well.  Fast razorbacks made BA razorspam a thing.  Also made the BA rodeo a thing.  There were different playstyles that were viable but the RAS (regular assault squad) as troops with the razor bonus made us competitive on an points efficiency scale- also on account of the move 12 and shoot.  I think the BA here gained a little bit of notoriety and was picked up by a lot of power gamers and die-hard competitive tourney goers.  This grouped a lot of us into the disdainful  "Oh you're a 'BA Player' huh?" vibe online.  We also kept this dex for 4 years, through the entirety of 6th.  

SYSTEM: I think this is when we lost the init bonus, taking a lot of our heart and playstyle from many of us, yet with the vehicle system we were still competitive - even with the dreaded "leafblower" of the time. 

 

 

7th - I still regard as the best, and most balanced *system* out there ....disclaimer incoming.....IF played with 1 FOC.   Allies, multiple FOCs and various detachments and formations just broke it, imho - but our dex then was maybe one of the weakest.  No initial access to grav, which leveled the playing fields against stupid MC spam - yet made our own Sang Guard redundant. 

 

 

I have said this before, but the success of our 8th ed Dex will be fully determined NOT by how well the dex is designed in relation to other dexs, but rather how well it is considered in relation to the system. 

Good luck, GW.  

You're going to need it.  


 

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

In 2nd ed we had tons of Jump Packs, good dreads and all the original special characters + death company. It was a good Assault army in an edition that was as Shooty as 7th.

 

3rd and 5th (to a lesser degree) were the only "Assaulty" editions of 40K so far; somebody on the design team still has PTSD from a 3rd edition Rhino Rush because back then, when TAR was released they made it clear they didn't want Assault to dominate, and every edition since then has pretty much proven that.

 

That comment from FLG doesn't make me feel any better. Frankly our relative 'power level' is secondary to me while 'flavor' comes first.  What I do know is: Frankie from FLG, who GW is leaning on as their "Blood Angels Expert" knows nothing about Blood Angels except the super-cartoony Matt Ward characters and razorspam from 5th ed... otherwise BA were never top-tier enough for him to consider touching. So if it's FLG saying "we'll get what we want" regarding 'flavor' then I'm certain I won't be happy anyway - if he means regarding power-level, then I dunno...

[JamesI]

Everything is making me more nervous. I just don't trust FLG on BA.

 

Hope the codex hits soon so we can at least find out if GW understood what this army should be.

[Palwatch]

I heard from a semi reliable source that out CT is +2 to charge

[Jolemai]

I heard from a semi reliable source that out CT is +2 to charge

Do you have anything that can be referenced? If so we can reboot the NR&A thread.

[Bremon]

It’s funny how much nostalgia there is for 3rd. When I started playing back then the old timers just talked about how glorious 2nd was. Now we have people talking about the glory days of 5th.

 

I don’t need rhino rush to come back but I want multiple ways to play BA. Multiple fun, competitive, fluffy builds is the only way “we get what we want”, so to that point; I don’t trust FLG at all.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

The only rules thing I personally need fixed to be happy is the aura buff mechanic.

 

When you could join units this was fine, and even now if you're a shooty army this is still quite good, but it's such a handicap for assault based units/armies (those that can't field 40 guants at least).

 

If they throw tons of great specials at us, but it's still tied to aura buffs I'll be pissed hah.

[Panzer]

The only rules thing I personally need fixed to be happy is the aura buff mechanic.

 

When you could join units this was fine, and even now if you're a shooty army this is still quite good, but it's such a handicap for assault based units/armies (those that can't field 40 guants at least).

 

If they throw tons of great specials at us, but it's still tied to aura buffs I'll be pissed hah.

I agree. Tho it's not really the aura buff mechanic, it's the charge mechanic

 

What Iwould like to see is that if a unit makes a successfull charge that a character within 3" or whatever is allowed to make a consolidation move towards the same opponent once per turn or something along those lines so the unit doesn't charge itself out of range of the character buffs. Currently it's way harder to keep melee units within buff range than ranged units.

 

That much for fixing things for melee. The rest what I'd like to see aren't fixes but rather buffs for BA specifically (something to make it more likely to pull of the charge like +X to charges) and units that actually win fights in melee even against other melee units.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Well there's Heroic Intervention now... if they made that 9" for BA haha... that'd fixed it. :)

[Panzer]

The difference here is that Heroic Intervention only gets triggered if the Character is this close to the unit that got charged tho. What I want is that it gets triggered when the Character is this close to the unit that made the charge. ;)

And also iirc Heroic Intevention only triggers if the enemy made a charge not if you made one.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Yeah I think you got it right actually.

[TheHarrower]

The difference here is that Heroic Intervention only gets triggered if the Character is this close to the unit that got charged tho. What I want is that it gets triggered when the Character is this close to the unit that made the charge.

And also iirc Heroic Intevention only triggers if the enemy made a charge not if you made one.

 

It's super annoying when Death Company make the charge and Lemartes is hanging out in the back. Happens to me a lot. I usually daisy chain the unit to still get the buffs, but that is far from optimal. If a character is within buff range of a unit, they should just all be able to charge as a group with one roll.