New codex coming this year...

[sebs_evo7]

A charge range bonus wouldn't be all that bad. Multiple units deep striking and assaulting to me screams BA. In my last game i had 5 large units of jump infantry in reserve. It would have certainly come in handy

[Bremon]

+1” is trash tier compared to vanilla. Black Templar will have better deep strike assault than us in that case, unless GW follows FLG logic that says “every BA character loves special characters and wants to take lots of them”. I guess BT having the better jump infantry follows the GW motif of ultras having the best bikes, Ulthwé having the best Wraith constructs, etc. and other unintended side effects to “fluffy” army traits. Depending on stratagems, White Scars could continue to be the Vanguard Veteran Kings.

[Panzer]

+1” is trash tier compared to vanilla. Black Templar will have better deep strike assault than us in that case, unless GW follows FLG logic that says “every BA character loves special characters and wants to take lots of them”. I guess BT having the better jump infantry follows the GW motif of ultras having the best bikes, Ulthwé having the best Wraith constructs, etc. and other unintended side effects to “fluffy” army traits. Depending on stratagems, White Scars could continue to be the Vanguard Veteran Kings.

I disagree.

+1" is better than a re-roll for charging out of reserves since we always still have the re-roll stratagem for 1CP (which is better than re-rolling both dice for 9" charges as long as there's at least one 4 or better on the dice).

Edited November 4, 2017 by sfPanzer

[durdle-durdle]

I mean i’d Like +1” charges and advances. I’d prefer +2”, but that may be asking a bit much. Tbf, I also like playing a reserve heavy, close combat army. I know not everyone wants that, but I personally would be happy if we were given the tools to make that work well.

 

Rolling an 8 is much more manageable than a 9, especially with lemartes, command reroll, potentially more stratagems, relics, warlord traits, and psyker powers too to help.

Edited November 4, 2017 by durdle-durdle

[Frater Antodeniel]

8th edition codex exclusive news : "Lamenters is the new Blood Angels" (Joke for those who got the reference^^).

 

More seriously, i hope that GW finally find a way to clearly make the Blood Angels rules right. More than sub-factions or any things like that, Blood Angels just need good rules to represent the Flaws and Tactics. (A flat +1 to wound in melee or an extra-attack on 6/5+ to hit, and a bonus on charge/advance may be a 2 in 1 buff to represent the Red Thirst.)

 

From a fluff point of view, an expansion of the fluff part, mostly on chapters such as the Knights of Blood, Lamenters, Flesh Eaters...etc would be appreciated, as well as a Primaris fluff explanation notably given the particular nature of the Blood Angels flaws. (Also, new color scheme for Exsanguinators....and some other successors...).

[Bremon]

 

 

+1” is trash tier compared to vanilla. Black Templar will have better deep strike assault than us in that case, unless GW follows FLG logic that says “every BA character loves special characters and wants to take lots of them”. I guess BT having the better jump infantry follows the GW motif of ultras having the best bikes, Ulthwé having the best Wraith constructs, etc. and other unintended side effects to “fluffy” army traits. Depending on stratagems, White Scars could continue to be the Vanguard Veteran Kings.

I disagree.

+1" is better than a re-roll for charging out of reserves since we always still have the re-roll stratagem for 1CP (which is better than re-rolling both dice for 9" charges as long as there's at least one 4 or better on the dice).

Hmm, you’re right. Hadn’t thought of that CP re-roll, good point.

[Father Mapple]

In a situation where you could have the Lemartes reroll or the command point, but not both because reroll of rerolls is forbidden, 1" is pretty good if you know you'll get rerolls from other places.

Same thing for advancing.

 

edit: scrapcode

Edited November 4, 2017 by Father Mapple

[durdle-durdle]

On a situation where you could have the Lemartes reroll or the command point, but not both because reroll of rerolls is forgotten, 1" is pretty good if you know you'll get rerolls from other places.

 

Same thing for advancing.

If there’s also a way to advance and charge, it would be amazing imo. Edited November 4, 2017 by durdle-durdle

[Silas7]

Any one thinking about how an army wide Hammer of Wrath like ability would work out? Would make units that do make the charge hit just a little bit harder. Sure it's no +1 to wound in CC but i think it would be better balanced. +1" to charge/advancing is a little

Edited November 6, 2017 by Silas7

[Charlo]

 

 

I also swear to god if we don't get Cataphractii etc I'll be sad Panda and the lead designer literally lied to my face at Warhammer Fest.

I like to be optimistic about the Codex but....be prepared to be a sad Panda about those things. I only believe we're getting Cataphractii and similar vanilla units when I see them printed in the Codex.

The guy literally told me when I asked at the QnA.

 

So I think I have grounds to be a bit miffed.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I really hope it isn't +1 Advance/Charge... *looks at all them tactical mans* Edited November 4, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Bremon]

I’m still with you on that one Dont-Be-Haten, sfPanzer is correct that with a CP re-roll a deep strike charge is more likely for hypothetical BA than Templars, but my issue with that scenario is

A- we aren’t swimming in CP like ultramarines or Guard, etc.

B- a stratagem can only be used once per phase, so if we have multiple units coming out of orbit, one will be more likely to reach combat than BT, the others will be worse. I, and likely some others, aren’t big on special characters so unless there's a WL trait or regular character buff that helps us out I’ll be bummed. I don’t care for Lemartes that much (sorry Brother Lemartes lol). That said, I’m probably one of the most cynical people in this thread and I’m complaining about a rumour, so I’ll pipe down until we see more concrete evidence in the coming weeks.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Bremon

[Bonzi]

I have the same twisting in my guts feeling that this will be a disappointment. Unfounded I know, but I've played BA to long to hope.

 

Nids is not a reasonable thing to look at for hope. It's an assault based army that's been in the gutter for a long time. BA are an SM variant, our baseline is going to be the SM book. We will get sprinkled lightly with some assault flavor from our CT, traits, gear, and strategems but that is it. Look at the SM book and the new Primaris....SM are a flexible army that leans to shooting now. There is no magic rule that will change that baseline for the BA book.

 

Hope is mostly to be reserved for point fixes and some good unique strategems.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Bonzi

[durdle-durdle]

 

 

 

I also swear to god if we don't get Cataphractii etc I'll be sad Panda and the lead designer literally lied to my face at Warhammer Fest.

I like to be optimistic about the Codex but....be prepared to be a sad Panda about those things. I only believe we're getting Cataphractii and similar vanilla units when I see them printed in the Codex.

The guy literally told me when I asked at the QnA.

 

So I think I have grounds to be a bit miffed.

If that’s something you care about. I don’t want those, I just want something to set our terminators apart a little. Currently every space marine codex except is has special terminators in some way. Ours are just normal assault and tactical terminators.

[Frater Antodeniel]

Some spoilers, that somes may take as Rage-material...

 

 

1 - From codex tyranids : "...Gravely wounded, but still alive, Chapter Master Dante bent the knee before Primarch Guilliman..."

2 - Look like the Knights of Blood are good for the Martyr Extremis mention, with perhaps a new Primaris successor in order to honor their sacrifice.

 

[The Unseen]

+1 to advance/charge is, if true, complete garbage.

It still doesn't make assault from deep strike nearly reliable enough to be worth building around, especially with how cheap bubble wraps and screens are tactics 101 for 8th.

Go look at death company with lemartes looking for a deep strike charge, then go look at scions with deepstriking plasma guns and cry.

 

And on 95%+ of our units, aka anything not Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, or Terminators/vets, it's only use is snagging an objective that was just out of reach.

Because marines (bar those exceptions up there) can't kill jack in close combat.

 

Marines aren't "flexible" anymore, their a shooting army with better than average staying power.

They have been sliding that way for awhile, but 8th hammered it in with the changes to assault, no initiative values, no extra attacks on the charge, and marines didn't get an attack increase.

 

So I forsee a whole bunch of mediocre assault focused changes that do nothing to actually let Blood Angels be a decent assault army. Because the baseline is so far under the curve we would have to get absolutely insane combat buffs to make it even close to worth it overy building a gunline just like every other marine army currently.

 

And it doesn't help that I'm super not looking forward to "the chapter was almost wiped out, but here's Gman to save the day, and he also brought even better marines!" Train that we all know is coming.

Edited November 4, 2017 by The Unseen

[Charlo]

Some spoilers, that somes may take as Rage-material...

 

 

1 - From codex tyranids : "...Gravely wounded, but still alive, Chapter Master Dante bent the knee before Primarch Guilliman..."

2 - Look like the Knights of Blood are good for the Martyr Extremis mention, with perhaps a new Primaris successor in order to honor their sacrifice.

 

 

Of course Dante bent the knee.

 

If someone is enraged by that then they don't really get how big a deal Guilliman is in the 41st Mil.

 

Thats cool about the KoB. Good last sacrifice. Very BA of them.

[brother_b]

I'v seen GW make some very extreme changes for some of the new codex releases. They've buffed Leman Russ tanks, they've given double tap and all sorts of goodies to Eldar, they've made once horrible Tyranid units very viable.

 

GW may not "get" BA like we want them to, but it's their vehicle to drive and I don't see them purposefully doing something horrible to BA. 

 

It's also obvious they are looking at the community for input, and taking the community into consideration. We've seen this with fixes to some of the issues already at play in 8th edition (conscripts for one). 

 

I can't see the +1" being the only thing that the chapter gets. Maybe +1" with an ability to charge after advancing, or a 1 point CP that allows a charge after advancing. That would be +2" for a unit prior to the charge. This doesn't help us with the immediate alpha strike charge but definitely would help big units of DC/SG get into charge after they arrive.

 

I'm excited. Pretty soon we'll know for sure and have our book!

 

Edit: Just saw that the Tyranids have 3 army-wide special rules. That gives me hope we'll see more than just the +1" to charge (if that's even been confirmed).

Edited November 4, 2017 by brother_b

[Slothysaur]

I'm probably just echoing everyone else by saying I'm not getting my hopes up after what happened with the Angels Blade supplement in 7th.

At least we haven't been rolled into the SM dex or squatted.

[Blindhamster]

Where does the rumour of +1 on charge and advance come from?

[Bremon]

A poster claiming to have been told at a GW on dakka I believe, so, basically, thin air.

[Panzer]

I’m still with you on that one Dont-Be-Haten, sfPanzer is correct that with a CP re-roll a deep strike charge is more likely for hypothetical BA than Templars, but my issue with that scenario is

A- we aren’t swimming in CP like ultramarines or Guard, etc.

B- a stratagem can only be used once per phase, so if we have multiple units coming out of orbit, one will be more likely to reach combat than BT, the others will be worse. I, and likely some others, aren’t big on special characters so unless there's a WL trait or regular character buff that helps us out I’ll be bummed. I don’t care for Lemartes that much (sorry Brother Lemartes lol). That said, I’m probably one of the most cynical people in this thread and I’m complaining about a rumour, so I’ll pipe down until we see more concrete evidence in the coming weeks.

It's a mixed bag to be honest.

 

9" charge without re-rolls = 27.78%

with +1" charge range = 41.67%

 

with re-roll of both dice = 43.98%

with +1" and re-roll of both dice = 65.97%

 

with re-roll 1 dice = 44.9%

with +1" and re-roll 1 dice = 68.05%

 

So without using any CP it's almost the same result, with spending 1CP it's WAY better. Plus since it also affects advance moves it's also useful more often instead of just the turn you charge (and who knows maybe Deathcompany will get a advance&charge rule even).

Is it the best tactic? Nah not by far. Is it a bad tactic for an army that wants to get into melee and likes using deep strike tactics? It really isn't. Now we just need units that can actually wreck things in melee on their own (I hope they give the Sanguinor finally the treatment it deserves).

 

Some spoilers, that somes may take as Rage-material...

 

 

1 - From codex tyranids : "...Gravely wounded, but still alive, Chapter Master Dante bent the knee before Primarch Guilliman..."

2 - Look like the Knights of Blood are good for the Martyr Extremis mention, with perhaps a new Primaris successor in order to honor their sacrifice.

 

All the Ultramarine hate aside....why is Dante bending the knee before Guilliman rage-material? It's Guilliman. Just because we don't like Ultramarines because of how GW sells us Marines it doesn't mean Guilliman isn't someone extremely important for all of humanity and now basically the leader of the IoM and not to forget pretty much a living legend only second to Sanguinius and the Emperor himself for Blood Angels.

 

And about the KoB....AWESOME! That's an acceptable way for them to die in the fluff and a Primaris successor to honor their sacrifice was basically what I intended to do since we knew about Primaris! :D Just needs some proper melee Primaris units now and I'm good to go!

[Spagunk]

I think the bend the knee thing is a show of submission, not a show of respect. So essentially people could get mad at the fact that Dante, a almost 2000 year old combat vet, is submitting to a higher authority rather than being brought on as a well respected peer with invaluable expertise, knowledge and experience.

 

But it depends on what happens in the novel or what it says in the codex:

 

Guillimen approaches the ancient marine, battered and bruised as he is. He then scoffs at the state of affairs and wonders how this marine was able to last so long with such meager and palpable tactics. He then spoke, with great sarcasm "Well my little one, seems you needed some assistance here. Bend the knee and proclaim fealty and I may grace you with the tools you need". Dante, being the cowardly peon that he is, begs the mighty primarch for forgiveness and pleads to be allowed to live. As marines are still difficult to product, Guillimen waves off the putrid show and walks away to allow his administrators to handle the situation.
 

[Panzer]

I think the bend the knee thing is a show of submission, not a show of respect. So essentially people could get mad at the fact that Dante, a almost 2000 year old combat vet, is submitting to a higher authority rather than being brought on as a well respected peer with invaluable expertise, knowledge and experience.

 

But it depends on what happens in the novel or what it says in the codex:

 

Guillimen approaches the ancient marine, battered and bruised as he is. He then scoffs at the state of affairs and wonders how this marine was able to last so long with such meager and palpable tactics. He then spoke, with great sarcasm "Well my little one, seems you needed some assistance here. Bend the knee and proclaim fealty and I may grace you with the tools you need". Dante, being the cowardly peon that he is, begs the mighty primarch for forgiveness and pleads to be allowed to live. As marines are still difficult to product, Guillimen waves off the putrid show and walks away to allow his administrators to handle the situation.

 

Yeah it really depends on how it is descripted. As we experienced Dante in the novel "Dante" it's very much possible that Dante just instantly recognized and acknowledged Guilliman and what it means for him to be there and decides to bent the knee on his own. Respect or submission doesn't matter and doesn't have to be exclusive to each other. If he recognizes Guilliman as the leader of the IoM he is expected to submit to him anyway.

It's also important how Guilliman reacts to that. Does he belittle him? Does he acknowledge him and what he did and tells him to stand?

 

From what I've seen how Guilliman got described in the new fluff and from what we know about Dante, I don't see it in any negative light to be honest.

[Jolemai]

Anywho, check out the DA unconfirmed let

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/341045-dark-angel-book-leaks-rules/?p=4924433&do=findComment&comment=4924433

 

Be nice if we get a deep strike within 9" and/or a charge/double tap strategem too...