New codex coming this year...

[Karhedron]

This is still my stance as well. Red Thirst might change how we play but it doesnt change how others play against us. Shoot us off the board and dont worry about Red Thirst is still going to be a problem.

I think that if we want to play an assaulty army, we will have to play the saturation game. We need enough melee units reach combat without them all getting blown away. Furthermore, we need enough that when we reach combat, there are still enough units to tie up enough enemy units to significantly hamper their shooting.

 

That is going to be a tall order although not impossible. Lemartes DC bomb should allow you to bring down several squads and get around half of them into melee on the same turn. Bubble wrapping will be an issue so I think fire support will be key. Turn 1, use your anti-infantry guns to clear a landing zone of chaff. Turn 2, drop the DC bomb and start hitting things.

[Spagunk]

If we can get reduced price Assault marines, that could do it for us. Fill our lines with cheaper assault marines and then smack them with the hard stuff. Sadly you can't just equip tac marines with jump packs so you're cutting off your mid range battle lines.

[Panzer]

You always need something for your backfield as well so having a few Tacticals is not that bad imo

[Brother Crimson]

I just played yesterday Intercessor/ Hell blaster Blobs with Corbulo and Captain. I caught the other player off guard by charging with the intercessors, they were not expecting them to be good. However 12 S5 attacks with +1 to wound on intercessors and additional attacks on 6+ is something to be feared.

[Karhedron]

If we can get reduced price Assault marines, that could do it for us. Fill our lines with cheaper assault marines and then smack them with the hard stuff.

I think it is very unlikely we will get cheaper assault marines than other Chapters. Granted this is the first non-codex chapter but I expect all units that are common to have the same price. Our assault Marines are already arguably better than Codex ones thanks to +1 to Wound on the the first round of each combat. Making them cheaper too would probably be regarded as unfair.

 

The problem with Assault squads remains that Van Vets do the same job but better for a few points more and have much better upgrade options. I can't see the role for RAS outside of a Brigade.

 

Want to hit stuff in CC? Van Vets are better.

 

Want special weapon caddies? Company Vets can spam more per squad, get more attacks and can soak wounds from your special characters if needed.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Karhedronuk

[Brother Crimson]

 

If we can get reduced price Assault marines, that could do it for us. Fill our lines with cheaper assault marines and then smack them with the hard stuff.

 

The problem with Assault squads remains that Van Vets do the same job but better for a few points more and have much better upgrade options. I can't see the role for RAS outside of a Brigade.

 

Want to hit stuff in CC? Van Vets are better.

 

Want special weapon caddies? Company Vets can spam more per squad, get more attacks and can soak wounds from your special characters if needed.

 

 

I can only agree, for 2 extra pts per model dual chainsword can vet get double the attacks, unless they rule out that loadout.

 

I still think plasma assault squads are worth it and the brigade unlocks lots of CP.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Brother Crimson

[Spagunk]

But I am not looking for better CC, I am looking for cheaper jump troops.

[Bremon]

Why would we get access to that though?

[Sawtooth]

I've used scout squads to great effect with the index, especially doing their infiltration trick to deny drop zones and then causing havoc before they get killed. I've used shotguns and ccw and found them about equally useful, do you think Red Thirst swings the balance to pistol/ccw now?

[Captain_Krash]

Absol-Freaking-lutly Especially with Landspeeder Storms. Scouts are going to be great in CC due to having Boltpistols and Chainswords making them basically Assault marines minus the jump pack(and armor of course). People are going to learn to fear Scouts getting stuck in their lines and grabbing backfield objectives. I cannot wait.

 

Krash  

Edited November 29, 2017 by Captain_Krash

[9x19 Parabellum]

Yeah i'm looking forward to that playstyle too. The only issue is the frekking 85 pt land speeder storms.

[Spagunk]

Why would we get access to that though?

Because I want it???

[Pendent]

Well, Inceptors will be dropping quite a bit in cost and they're jump troops. Characters notwithstanding I'm pretty doubtful we'll see a reduction for anything else except for maybe Sanguinary Guard.

[Bremon]

 

 

Why would we get access to that though?

Because I want it???

lol! I want things too but 8th has made it pretty clear that things are priced in a vacuum; a powerfist is 12 points on a marine regardless of how your chapter tactics interact with that, so hoping for a price break on assault marines for us is more than just the first step on the road to disappointment.

[Spagunk]

 

 

Why would we get access to that though?

Because I want it???

lol! I want things too but 8th has made it pretty clear that things are priced in a vacuum; a powerfist is 12 points on a marine regardless of how your chapter tactics interact with that, so hoping for a price break on assault marines for us is more than just the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

Or you guy can just not take me seriously since I did say IF. You know, the word you use when you want a hypothetical situation?

[Aothaine]

Yeah i'm looking forward to that playstyle too. The only issue is the frekking 85 pt land speeder storms.

 

It will totally be worth it though. Can't those be loaded with an Assault Cannon or Multi-Melta? Just include it in the cost of the scout unit. You run 3-4 of these bad boys and your opponent is going to have a tough time with target priority. You'll also have some predators and flyers and the squad of terminators that just teleported into their back lines. Scouts on LSstorms are crazy good and fit with almost any army comp which is why I'm so happy we have them. The +1 to wound is icing on the cake. 

[Panzer]

 

 

Why would we get access to that though?

Because I want it???

lol! I want things too but 8th has made it pretty clear that things are priced in a vacuum; a powerfist is 12 points on a marine regardless of how your chapter tactics interact with that, so hoping for a price break on assault marines for us is more than just the first step on the road to disappointment.

 

Actually 8th made it pretty clear that things are not priced in a vacuum considering that many things are way cheaper on Guardsmen than on Marines and loyalist Terminators are going to be cheaper than CSM Terminators with the CA. ^^

[Bremon]

On different factions, sure; but within a single faction? No. A salamander lascannon is as valuable as an ultramarine one despite the Salamander version being better in the majority of situations.

[Panzer]

Well it's impossible to cost a weapon 100% perfectly for any situation on any unit. A Salamander Marine is close enough to an Ultramarine Marine in terms of army efficiency. Once Slamanders get charged their Lascannon is suddenly a lot worse than the Ultramarine ones plus Ultramarines have Guilliman etc. etc.  ^^

[Pendent]

It would be pretty ridiculous to change the cost on units or weapons depending on chapter tactic. White Scars bikes should not be more expensive because they are White Scars. Blood Angels should not pay more for our Assault Marines. The tactics are there to incentivize certain army builds and re-balancing costs based on that would completely defeat the purpose. Not to mention it would be an utter nightmare for anybody trying to do it. That's like saying we should pay more fo

[Karhedron]

Absol-Freaking-lutly Especially with Landspeeder Storms. Scouts are going to be great in CC due to having Boltpistols and Chainswords making them basically Assault marines minus the jump pack(and armor of course). People are going to learn to fear Scouts getting stuck in their lines and grabbing backfield objectives. I cannot wait.

Considering Scouts can infiltrate, you may even be able to get away without the Storm. More exposed but much cheaper.

[Captain_Krash]

 

Absol-Freaking-lutly Especially with Landspeeder Storms. Scouts are going to be great in CC due to having Boltpistols and Chainswords making them basically Assault marines minus the jump pack(and armor of course). People are going to learn to fear Scouts getting stuck in their lines and grabbing backfield objectives. I cannot wait.

Considering Scouts can infiltrate, you may even be able to get away without the Storm. More exposed but much cheaper.

 

 

 

Indeed! I've just been waiting for what feels like forever sense its release to use that blasted thing and now I can, so I'm just really excited.

 

Krash

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

I do wonder if we'll be getting something like an outflank strategem for Baal Preds- they certainly seem to be looking back at our 5th edition codex with some of this stuff (I'm looking at you, flying librarian dreadnought)

[Jorre]

I wonder if we could fill a brigade using 6x cheap scout squads

[JamesI]

I wonder if we could fill a brigade using 6x cheap scout squads

Scouts for us will be pretty good with Red Thirst for combat scouts.