New codex coming this year...

[The Unseen]

A marine, a chapter master, Dante himself, it doesn't matter.

Guilliman is a primarch, direct son of the Emperor, with all the majesty that entails. And not just that, but one who was instrumental in holding the Imperium itself together after Sanguinius' martyrdom.

Of course he should kneel.

His genetics demand nothing less.

 

Furthermore, currently Gman is absolutely big E's regent effectively, and the highest authority in the entire Imperium.

The Blood Angels, and more specifically Dante, are not prideful preening things.

Humility, gathered throughout long lifetimes of service and the Flaw, is one of our noblest traits.

(In fact, it's one of the biggest reasons I love the Blood Angels over any other 40k faction. Inhuman super soldiers with the blood of a demi-god of war flowing through their veins, and yet they remain humble, they treat their mortal allies with respect and deference, rather than as expendable resources, they honor their oaths, etc.)

 

Anyone who thinks Dante wouldn't or shouldn't kneel before Guilliman I don't think really understand their characterization at all.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

I can see the bended knee from dante being like sanguinius bending the knee to the emperor

[Xenith]

1" is not so good. Nids get that on all their models for 1pt each. Behemoth is reroll charge distance. It's still decent for an army that wants to deepstrike a lot though. Going from having to roll a 9 to an 8 is huge.

 

Relating to tacticals, it's still largely situational. Remember that BA are supposed to be marines +1, -1, not just marines +1.

 

We still don't know what our warlord traits and strategems will be.

 

If they're anything like nids, highly synergistic, I would imagine. Things like additional +1 charge within 6" of warlord, attack bubbles etc.

[CrimsonExarch]

Slightly offtopic but apparently the Dark Angels codex got leaked. Lionel Johnson looks to be back. Here is the compilation of the leak. Not confirmed but it looks fairly legit.
 

Dark angel leak

Posted elsewhere, but book has been leaked .

Preorder on the 2nd of December
Available on the 9th of December

A few changes in a couple of units. Points moving to match the vanilla codex.

No Sammael in Sableclaw in the codex

Black knights and deathwing terminators may now be upgraded to a command squad (1 per army) this basically gives them the bodyguard ability.

Now the juicy stuff

Abilities

And they shall know no fear

Inner circle
This unit automatically passes morale checks. In addition it may reroll at to hit rolls against Heretic Astartes and all to hit and to wound rolls against Fallen in the fight phase

Ravenwing
If this unit moves it gains a 6+ invulnerable save to all shooting attacks. If it advances it gains a 5+ Invulnerable save to all shooting attacks

Grim Resolve 
All UNFORGIVEN units may Overwatch on a 5+ and will only lose one model to a failed morale test

Have the same space marine stratagems as vanilla marines with the exception of
Masterful marksmanship 
Cluster mines
Tremor shells

Also access to these unique stratagems

Fury of the First
2CP
Use this stratagem in your shooting phase. All plasma weapons may use the supercharge weapon template but ignore any mortal wounds that would be caused by a roll of 1.

Repent for Tomorrow You Die 
Unforgiven Stratagem
1CP
Use this stratagem before overwatch, the UNFORGIVEN unit may fire overwatch at full BS.

Teleport Homer
Unforgiven Stratagem 
2CP
Play at the beginning of your turn. Any DEATHWING unit may deepstrike from reserve within 9" of an enemy unit as long as it is within 6" of a RAVENWING UNIT

Deathwing Assault
Unforgiven Stratagem
2CP
Play at the beginning of your turn, any DEATHWING unit entering by deepstrike may fire twice or add 3" to a charge roll this turn.

Same standard space marine Warlord Traits as vanilla marines with the following unique ones.

Unforgiven
Hold at all costs
Your warlord and UNFORGIVEN units within 9" of your Warlord may roll a D6 for every wound sustained, on a 5+ it is ignored.

Unforgiven
Courage of the First Legion
UNFORGIVEN units in your army may use your Warlords Leadership for morale checks.

Deathwing
The Hunt
Any enemy Character that your Warlord slays in the fight phase grants one victory point

Ravenwing
Rapid Manoeuvres
Your warlord and any RAVENWING units within 6" of him may add 2" to all move, Advance and charge distances and add +1 to all JINK rolls

Relics

Sacred standard
Only one sacred standard can be taken per army

Standard of Devestation
All UNFORGIVEN units within 9" of the standard may fire twice in the shooting phase and automatically pass morale checks.

Standard of Retribution
All UNFORGIVEN units within 9" of the standard may attack twice in the fight phase and automatically pass morale checks.

Standard of Fortitude
All UNFORGIVEN units within 9" of the standard when suffering an unsaved wound may roll a D6 on a 5+ the wound is ignored and automatically pass morale checks.

Mace of Redemption
S+3 Ap-3 D2
If a unit suffers damage from this weapon reduce WS by 1 until the end of the next fight phase.
Against Heretic Astartes weapon is AP -4

Lion's Roar
When attacking with this weapon, choose one or both of the profiles below. If you choose both, subtract 1 from all hit rolls for this weapon-
Boltgun 24" Rapid Fire 1 S4 AP0 D1
Plasma 24" AssaultD3 S7 AP-3 D1

Foe Smiter
Rapid fire 3 S4 AP-1 D1

Monster Slayer of Caliban
S+2 AP-2 D d3
If this weapon causes at least one unsaved wound roll a D6 on a 6 the model is removed from play. Does not effect models with the VEHICLE keyword

Shroud of Heroes
The shroud of heroes confers a 4+ cover save and for each unsaved wound roll a D6 on a 6+ the save is ignored

And finally the biggest news in my opinion

Lion El’Jonson
M 8"
WS 2+
BS 2+
S 6
T 6
W 9
A 7
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Hope Melee Melee S+2 AP -3 D 2 If you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts Mortal Wounds instead of its normal damage.

Despair 18” AssaultD3 S8 AP -3 D3 If a unit suffers any damage from this weapon, roll a D6 on a 6 the unit suffers D3 Mortal Wounds

And they shall know no fear

Master of the First – If your army is battleforged, you receive an additional 3 CP if Lion El’Jonson is your Warlord.

Armour of the Order – Lion El’Jonson has a 3+ invulnerable save. In addition all UNFORGIVEN units within 8” receive an 5+ Invulnerable save.

Blade Master - For every unsaved wound Lion El'Jonson causes in the fight phase he can immediately make an additional attack. This ability can only be used once per fight phase.

Master Strategist- each time a stratagem is used roll a D6 on a 4+ the CP for that stratagem is not spent

I Primarch – You can re-roll any failed hit and wound rolls for friendly UNFORGIVEN units within 6” of Lion El’Jonson

[Frater Antodeniel]

My bad, i should have developp my opinion a little more, rather than posting the same information three time, in different forms^^. (I should have remains focused on this Topic alone, which is certainly the best for such debate/exchange of opinion).

 

My point of view follow the description made by "Spagunk", the wording of the action of "bending the knee" is more at fault than "recognizing the new authority".

 

In this way, the picture that Guy Haley may have done in the Devastation of Baal book of this "action" would be as important as the action itself. ("May have done" since, it isn't sure that he may have portrayed the Indomitus Crusade part, even if it is probable that he did it.)

 

"Bending the knee" would bordering the insult, considering all the struggles the Blood Angels and their successors get through in order to defend the Baalite system and the surroundings sub-sectors, while "the greetings of allied forces, celebrations of a hard victory, mourning of the fallens, and the recognition of the new Imperial autority in the person of Roboute Guilliman" would give justice to the all the important figures of the story.

 

As for the Knights of Blood material, i don't think it is particulary open to rage (my bad once again, i should have separated the two things^^), but once again, i hope that the Codex description of them (i suppose that they will got one^^) and that their description in Devastation of Baal, will be important, in order to give justice to their sacrifice and a good justification for a potential Primaris chapter.)

[The Unseen]

Yeah, I don't believe it.

No way is a standard going to let everyone within 9" shoot twice.

 

Bring forth the mountain of salt.

[Panzer]

Pretty surely more of a wishlist than anything else. It's way too soon for another Primarch release. There's no build up for him if he were to come with that Codex like GW did for the others.

The standard in particular sounds pretty strong considering that CSM got it as Stratagem and only for Slaanesh units (preventing it from having access to other Mark of Chaos buffs).

It also talks about a 4+ Cover save which is a relic from 7th since 8th cover doesn't work like that lol

[brother_b]

Ok so where's our grande leak for BA? And yeah, the whole Dante kneeling thing looks to me like pure respect for a primarch, bascially Dante's great uncle! ;)

[Indefragable]

Dante didn't bend a knee....his knees were broken, in echoes of his genesire, after single handedly :cuss -slapping the Swarmlord into dust and soloing 12x Flyrants in the stratosphere. He just couldn't stick the landing like he could in his youth....

[Crimson Ghost IX]

I'm going to HOPE for a great codex. I think it's past time and GW knows the last few have been sub-optimal.

 

There were rumblings from playtesters (Frontline) that Blood Angels were gonna be awesome back at 8th release.

They likely saw this coming material although haven't said much other than BA are borderline OP at release (Which we were not - so maybe they were thinking of the codex...).

 

Anyhow, I am very Hopeful and Excited =) But I will play with and enjoy what I get obviously.

Will they get it all right... - unlikely.

---

 

Regarding the Guilliman and the kneeling... It is nothing but much deserved RESPECT in my opinion.

You must remember RG bent the knee and made Sanguinius Emperor over Ultramar in the new fluff.

I prefer to view it as an epic rescue by very friendly forces at a very dark hour for us. Potentially great stuff. Looking forward to the novel.

 

Go read more of the recent Horus Heresy stuff setting up this super tight bond between our legions.

Like it or not the Ultramarines are likely to be our very closest brother marines forevermore.

The bond between our Primarchs was remarkable in that material.

 

So get used to Uncle Bobby being around and love him for coming thru fire and hell itself to aid us at Baal in the hour of greatest need.

Think of it as his coming to our aid to repay old debts he owes our great legion from the times of the Heresy itself.

He could not have done otherwise. All were likely wishing they showed up sooner I'm sure.

 

I would argue RG likely loves and watches over no other space marines; but the Ultramarines themselves, as much as he does for the Blood Angels.

Because of the events of the Heresy. Because of his incredible bond with our father. Because he is a good dude.

Together we will rebuild the Imperium etc etc =).

 

The genuine love and respect of the Blood Angels and his closeness to Sanguinius would never allow him to allow us to perish anyhow.

 

We need each other and are all together - the good guys in a dark universe.

(Even if we snack on people once in awhile).

 

So stop this screw Roboute stuff... It is HERESY fellas... *Blam *Blam *Blam.

When Sanguinius or his Avatar etc return I am sure He will agree =)

Edited November 4, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[durdle-durdle]

Color me salty, but the dark angel “leak” is dubious at best.

[Hillslam]

Not buying that DA leak.

 

As for our +1" on charge...   what good is getting into combat for us when we cost so much its usually 5 angels vs 10-20 whatevs, and our weapons are so overpriced and underpowered we're slapping them with pillows.

 

COMBAT!! whooopeee

 

There's alot of across-the-board problems with BA that +1" charges won't fix:  Can't pick from enough units, can't lay down enough boots, can't lay down enough attack dice, can't lay down enough wounds that get thru, and can't absorb or prevent wounds. 

 

(Frankly we were too strong in ~3rd and we've been paying for it for by being B grade for ~4 releases / years)

 

Meanwhile... over thars them Eldar rompin' it up for half a decade wit narry a care.

 

So yeah color me super salty too, and I ain't trusting the BA codex to fix it til I see it. 3+ releases have shown the pattern.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Hillslam

[BluejayJunior]

In regards to the bending the knee, I can't imagine RG being a jerk about it. Look at how he handled Pedro Kantor after rescuing the Crimson Fists from a similarly bad scenario. I think it would be Dante showing him respect. 

I'm really not sure about that DA leak, either.

 

"the UNFORGIVEN unit may fire overwatch at full BS."

Black knights and deathwing terminators may now be upgraded to a command squad 

any DEATHWING unit entering by deepstrike

d slays in the fight phase grants one victory point

 a unit suffers damage from this weapon reduce WS by 1 until the end of the next fight phase.

 

 

Too many things that have wording not found in any other 8th edition rules. 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Not buying that DA leak.

 

As for our +1" on charge... what good is getting into combat for us when we cost so much its usually 5 angels vs 10-20 whatevs, and our weapons are so overpriced and underpowered we're slapping them with pillows.

 

COMBAT!! whooopeee

 

There's alot of across-the-board problems with BA that +1" charges won't fix: Can't pick from enough units, can't lay down enough boots, can't lay down enough attack dice, can't lay down enough wounds that get thru, and can't absorb or prevent wounds.

 

(Frankly we were too strong in ~3rd and we've been paying for it for by being B grade for ~4 releases / years)

 

Meanwhile... over thars them Eldar rompin' it up for half a decade wit narry a care.

 

So yeah color me super salty too, and I ain't trusting the BA codex to fix it til I see it. 3+ releases have shown the pattern.

Quoted for truth

[DemonGSides]

In regards to the bending the knee, I can't imagine RG being a jerk about it. Look at how he handled Pedro Kantor after rescuing the Crimson Fists from a similarly bad scenario. I think it would be Dante showing him respect. 

I'm really not sure about that DA leak, either.

 

"the UNFORGIVEN unit may fire overwatch at full BS."

Black knights and deathwing terminators may now be upgraded to a command squad 

any DEATHWING unit entering by deepstrike

d slays in the fight phase grants one victory point

 a unit suffers damage from this weapon reduce WS by 1 until the end of the next fight phase.

 

 

Too many things that have wording not found in any other 8th edition rules. 

 

Wording I could forgive as just someone poorly remembering what they saw and translating it into text incorrectly. It's just there's been 0 real rumor of the Lion in any actual way and we knew about Mortarion almost half a year ahead of time.

 

Also the DA codex is so good no one would play anything else.  Make everything ravenwing and reroll them shots.

 

What if they re-release the bobby-g sculpt with a new weapon and a different set of heads?  Lion's all :cussed up, maybe Cawl makes a second set of armor?  What if he makes a third for our beloved primarch and they get the Ynnari to come give him a lil kiss...

[Morticon]

Echoing some trepidation here, 

 

my biggest concerns are that they'll give the BA combat based bonuses that are viewed in a vacuum.  What i mean by this harks back to my long response a few months back about the inherent issues of combat in 8th edition. 

+1" will be all but useless.  There is no real reward for being in combat.  BA need something ground-breaking, new and innovative to make them viable.   3rd ed had solid pros/cons and (i believe) was the best set of rules in relation to the system that BA have had.  

Following that, I think the PDF was also very good, but tied us to character bubbles- BUT, because of the system, this was incredibly powerful.  

We're going to need something that fundamentally alters how we engage with the system, otherwise we risk having fluffy, but dinky and perfunctory bonuses that dig us yet another bit deeper into obscurity. 

[templarphoenix]

 

 

So...like Nids have Hive Fleets sub-factions to choose with, what do BA gets?

Fleshtearers and a full DeathCompany?

It'll be more like Grey Knights and Death Guard probably where they showcase some successors but don't give anything real major to anything.

I play fleshtearers so I do care about if FTsgetting their own rules :p

[Jorre]

The +1 to advance/charge is terrible in a vacuum but we need to see the whole picture! That is if its true!

[Panzer]

Why would you think the +1“ is all we get? o_O

Of course there will be point adjustments and other things as well. If not, we would be the first Codex in 8th without....which is extremely unlikely.

 

Sure the +1“ doesn't help once we are in combat, but considering how much of a problem it is to get into combat in the first place, I'll take that one over some in-combat bonus.

Look at CSM for example. World Eaters aren't the best melee Legion. Why? Because they struggle to deliver the damage. Alpha Legion is considered a better melee legion just because they can let a key melee unit infiltrate.

 

What do I care about a strength bonus or whatever if my fancy sang guard gets shot to bits or gets charged themselves after arriving from reserves because they failed their 9" charge (again, 28% chance without re-roll, ~44% chance with re-rolling one dice).

Edited November 5, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I would like to take a moment to address something. The amount of anxiety inducing verbiage lined throughout this thread has been pretty radical.

 

I mean I get it. Having to play a 5th edition codex into the middle of 7th was rough. The 7th ed codex and all of our supplements were outshined by crazy meta armies.

 

If it weren't for the absurdity of two books; we actually had a very rich army with more support than most other armies.

 

Were they the symbolical "bone-throwing?" Sure.

 

My point is there was much more enthusiasm when we dilly-dallied around speculating what could be: Now we are on the clock and one rumor has sent us into a frenzy. (I mean honestly I'm right in the thick of it with the rest if we are honest!)

 

Anyhow; maybe we should all try and reset as best we can.

[neonmole]

I would like to take a moment to address something. The amount of anxiety inducing verbiage lined throughout this thread has been pretty radical.

 

I mean I get it. Having to play a 5th edition codex into the middle of 7th was rough. The 7th ed codex and all of our supplements were outshined by crazy meta armies.

 

If it weren't for the absurdity of two books; we actually had a very rich army with more support than most other armies.

 

Were they the symbolical "bone-throwing?" Sure.

 

My point is there was much more enthusiasm when we dilly-dallied around speculating what could be: Now we are on the clock and one rumor has sent us into a frenzy. (I mean honestly I'm right in the thick of it with the rest if we are honest!)

 

Anyhow; maybe we should all try and reset as best we can.

Somebody get this guy a medal.

 

Seriously, this is the attitude we should have going forward. We have been waiting for this!! How lucky as we that we are one of the first year codes? Every codex thus far has been an upgrade on the index; and I for one am just excited to start playing with a full fat set of rules, whatever they may be!

[Charlo]

If it is the rumored 1", which I do doubt as that is pitiful compared to even the weakest of other chapter tactics, then I'm out unless they do something real special.

 

We're in a good spot along the release schedule, but personally:

• Marine codex is a bit boring IMO
• I don't really like Primaris

I'm hoping we are more "DG Codex" and less "Marine Codex" in our design.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

If it is the rumored 1", which I do doubt as that is pitiful compared to even the weakest of other chapter tactics, then I'm out unless they do something real special.

 

We're in a good spot along the release schedule, but personally:

• Marine codex is a bit boring IMO
• I don't really like Primaris

I'm hoping we are more "DG Codex" and less "Marine Codex" in our design.

@Charlo, mate. You can always jump ship with me to the heretical bugs if the book is :cuss Edited November 5, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Charlo]

I mean, the second chance BA get will be Angelus next year... But if they are stale or uninspiring in 30k then i'm out.

 

Meanwhile I've got Ad Mech, Custodes and Death Guard on the go!

[Jolemai]

Wind down the doom and gloom a bit folks; there's no point making threats, etc. We haven't even got any verified rumours yet!