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New codex coming this year...

Leonaides

By Leonaides
in + BLOOD ANGELS +

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brother_b Veteran

brother_b

Posted
Posted

I was reviewing some of the stuff on Tyranids and saw that Tyranid warriors (while being cheap, tough, and having 3 wounds for only 20 points) can get adrenal glands that add +1" to charge/advance. That made me feel that sure they have to pay for that ability, but BA will get something in addition to +1 advance/charge (if that's even confirmed).

 

I was also reading some stuff on Frontline Gaming and one of the moderators was commenting in the BA tactics area that BA players will love the new codex and it's competitive. Sure grain of salt and all, and I know they were some of the initial testers that deemed BA as being too strong. Still, it makes me feel optimistic. 

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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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I lost faith in all those so-called pro players. It was they who playtested this stuff and gave their consent to the horrible internal and external imbalances we have now. Still, BA being strong. Hm, this would be a world first to remember :biggrin.:

They may have playtested it but GW provided the stuff they had to playtest and were the ones to evaluate the playtesters feedback and act on it. We don't know what exactly the playtesters had to work with and what kind of feedback they gave. We only know that the rules we got is what GW decided on being good.

 

However, yeah I don't trust FLG rating of BA things. They talk a lot when the day is long.

We'll see whether BA will be competetive or not soon enough and what kind of Codex we'll love is different from person to person. Some want BA to be an allout melee force with nothing but jump packs and on the other side of the fence are people who enjoy BA as more of Red Marines with additional flavour. ^^

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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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I disagree. Sure, Hordes are strong, but so far Marines don't do as badly as you put it. Primaris on the other hand are a bit on the weak side currently since W2 doesn't mean much against many anti-Infantry weapons with how expensive they are.

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Frater Cornelius Venerable Brother

Frater Cornelius

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SM tanks are mostly inferior, but that can be fixed. My greatest issue is that SM are elite and thus need reliability to offset their smaller numbers. But then we get a single shot weapon with D6 damage and only -3AP as our primary anti tank weapon, where there are so many instances it can fail. Or D6 shots on the Redemptor. Plus save modifiers and as you mentioned, the 2W of Primaris being a liability. Sure, it is definitely not manageable, but this lack of reliability and even survivability is what Marines suffer from.
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Xenith Venerable Brother

Xenith

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It'll take something special to work well. It is not really BA themselves, but 8ed is not suited for Marines. Elite armies do not work well. 

 

Craftworlds, Harlequins, etc disagree with that elite army statement.

 

Marines are generalists and they have always lost out against specialist armies in their field. Build a generalist army and play to the opponent's weakness instead of your strengths.

 

That said, Primaris seem to be becoming more specialised. When the points cost stops see sawing, things will be fine. 

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Frater Cornelius Venerable Brother

Frater Cornelius

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It'll take something special to work well. It is not really BA themselves, but 8ed is not suited for Marines. Elite armies do not work well. 

 

Craftworlds, Harlequins, etc disagree with that elite army statement.

 

Marines are generalists and they have always lost out against specialist armies in their field. Build a generalist army and play to the opponent's weakness instead of your strengths.

 

That said, Primaris seem to be becoming more specialised. When the points cost stops see sawing, things will be fine. 

 

I hope this won't rob any of the Chapters of their identity. I do not worry much about C:SM, because being vanilla is part of their identity. However, unless BA, DA and SW get unique Primaris units, they may lose a big part of what makes them special if Primaris start to overshadow classic Marines by viability or maybe even by design.

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Karhedron Venerable Brother

Karhedron

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We'll see whether BA will be competetive or not soon enough and what kind of Codex we'll love is different from person to person. Some want BA to be an allout melee force with nothing but jump packs and on the other side of the fence are people who enjoy BA as more of Red Marines with additional flavour. ^^

A really good codex would allow people to field either flavour or somewhere in between while remaining reasonably competitive. I realise I may be setting the bar rather high there. :wink:

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Indefragable Venerable Brother

Indefragable

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Posted

What’s hilarious in the darkest, most depressing, cynical of ways is that literally everything that made BA unique in 7th has been made universal.

 

Striking first on the charge

Deep Strike scatter reduction/choosing which turn

Fast tanks

+1S on the charge (while not universal, enough units/factions get this to be a non factor).

 

GW better have had the most enlightening [Redacted]-fueled spirt walk in the desert before they say done and wrote our Codex.

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Frater Antodeniel Veteran

Frater Antodeniel

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What is tragic with Blood Angels in the previous, 7th edition, isn't the lack of good ideas, but of vision/synergy of some important point.

 

7th edition was kind of a Lamenters edition, since, more than being bad itself, it was bad because others were made good, if not too good. And what could have been strong bonuses were ruined because of the general environement. (The +1 initiative and strenght could have form a good "chapter tactic", if they had been permanent bonuses. While a simple/intuitive bonuses for Detachment, likethe one of the DC detachement in Angel's Blade could have favorised the ability to charge for Blood Angels.)

 

The Angel's Blade supplement was also full of good things but too limited. (The DC relics/traits, for exemple, were particulary good and fluffy, but limited to the DC chaplains...while the BA and DC detachments could have merged into one, with their respective bonuses.)

 

Finally, the Blood Angels rules were not bad in themselves, but they were bad in comparison of what the others (especially others space marines armies) had, notably in regard of the Detachments/Formations.

 

I hope that GW took lessons of the mistakes it made in its vision regarding the Blood Angels, and corrected it in the 8th edition codex.

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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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7th edition was kind of a Lamenters edition, since, more than being bad itself, it was bad because others were made good, if not too good.

Both to be honest. The 7th edition Codex was incredibly bland with many redundant unit choices that were competing with eachother about how bad they are compared to other armies. Angels Blade breathed some new life into BA with some very interesting formations to play around with (the tank formation, the Dreadnought one, the Terminator one, the Deathcompany detachment) but overall was still not enough and partly still really bad. At this point I'm just glad that I didn't buy all the models to play with the formations that caught my eye back then.

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Pendent Battle-Brother

Pendent

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Charging after falling back has always seemed like something that's good on paper but in practice almost never comes up.

 

The only real advantage I see is that it moves you into the top "charged this turn" bracket for activation, which sure, seems good. How often do you have so many simultaneous combats going on that a unit that's been stuck in for a turn wouldn't be going first anyways, though? I can't think of a single time out of every game of eighth I've played where i have multiple combats running for a full game round without someone either falling back or being wiped out.

 

 

Edit: I don't care to be forced into running tons of Death Company. What remains to be seen is how much of the rest of our army would synergize with that sort of rule.

If this is what we get I'm definitely disappointed overall because I want something that also has a benefit for the shooting units we absolutely have to take these days. It's not like this would be the end of the world though, since the good stuff seems to come on the unit-specific dataslates.

Edited by Pendent
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