New codex coming this year...

[Panzer]

Also allows to charge some annoying chaff and next turn jump over them and charge the important juicy targets like tanks and characters.

 

I'd be totally fine with +1" on charge range (makes charge from deep strike a LOT more likely) and fall back&charge!

[Charlo]

Break from combat and charge sounds great to me...

In 7th, where both sides were locked in combat until there was a winner, it was, yeah.

 

But it's just like shooting pistols in combat in 8th, it'll never happen.

 

It requires your opponent to be charged by your combat unit it has no hope of beating and then sticking around in combat with it, instead of just falling back so his entire army can shoot/ charge your unit now left out in the open.

 

The only place this rule would gain relevance is against other combat armies, when they charge us and we can fall back, recharge them (and even shoot if we have the fly keyword). But even that is still flawed as it revolves around a negative situation to begin with, being charged as opposed to charging.

 

So yeah, bit of an awful trait if true...

[Panzer]

Charging after falling back has always seemed like something that's good on paper but in practice almost never comes up.

 

The only real advantage I see is that it moves you into the top "charged this turn" bracket for activation, which sure, seems good. How often do you have so many simultaneous combats going on that a unit that's been stuck in for a turn wouldn't be going first anyways, though? I can't think of a single time out of every game of eighth I've played where i have multiple combats running for a full game round without someone either falling back or being wiped out.

Well it's basically "always strikes first" in your turn only but in return with added charge bonuses being active every time and being able to chose a better target to charge depending on how the enemy moved and how many models in the original unit are left.

Considering how often I charge and fall back&shoot with my T'au Battlesuits I can definitely see it being useful in my games.

[Pendent]

I actually really like the point about being able to charge a chaff unit and then jump over them to hit the valuable stuff behind. That's got my brain actually running on this and I really like the idea. Lots of opportunity to tie vehicles up in combat for a turn and then boost over them to hit something else etc.

[Panzer]

The only thing that seems a bit weird there is that it's basically the White Scars tactic. Not sure if GW would give another loyalist Marine subfaction the same thing.

[Pendent]

 

Charging after falling back has always seemed like something that's good on paper but in practice almost never comes up.

 

The only real advantage I see is that it moves you into the top "charged this turn" bracket for activation, which sure, seems good. How often do you have so many simultaneous combats going on that a unit that's been stuck in for a turn wouldn't be going first anyways, though? I can't think of a single time out of every game of eighth I've played where i have multiple combats running for a full game round without someone either falling back or being wiped out.

Well it's basically "always strikes first" in your turn only but in return with added charge bonuses being active every time and being able to chose a better target to charge depending on how the enemy moved and how many models in the original unit are left.

Considering how often I charge and fall back&shoot with my T'au Battlesuits I can definitely see it being useful in my games.

 

 

 

I'm actually tentatively happy with the idea of falling back and charging but you do have to admit overwatch hurts pretty bad these days with the sheer number of rerolls available. I've had Necron Immortals vaporize entire units with their stupid gun that has exploding 6's to hit.

[TheHarrower]

 

Break from combat and charge sounds great to me...

 

That is if we gain any benefits from charging... otherwise it's just more overwatch. Still I could see some useful situational purposes.

 

 

Overwatch isn't that bad. Granted there are a few units that could put a hurting on a unit, but being able to drop out of close combat, gun them down with whatever you need, and charge again is awesome. So many times I've wanted to leave one combat and go to another. Now you can daisy chain your units to get where they need to go. Helps DC out as they'll get another attack as well.

[brother_b]

 

 

Break from combat and charge sounds great to me...

 

That is if we gain any benefits from charging... otherwise it's just more overwatch. Still I could see some useful situational purposes.

 

 

Overwatch isn't that bad. Granted there are a few units that could put a hurting on a unit, but being able to drop out of close combat, gun them down with whatever you need, and charge again is awesome. So many times I've wanted to leave one combat and go to another. Now you can daisy chain your units to get where they need to go. Helps DC out as they'll get another attack as well.

 

You will still lose units though, and that hurts when our units are pricey. I hope they allow us to break, shoot, and then charge. That's powerful. Or, even better, make breaking with US a way to inflict mortal wounds on the units that retreat.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

My cousin plays white scars. Against my Tyranids he has literally never jumped out of combat and reassaulted, because I bounce out in my turn and shoot the piss out of him and his assault gets overwatches, I rinse and repeat.

 

I've only ever shot pistols once in 8th, it was when I had a unit that couldn't fly completely encircled so I could shoot in the shooting phase. pistols and assault after falling back is quite rubbish, unless you force yourself to be charged with a throw away unit.

 

Which marines don't really have to begin with...

[Indefragable]

IF our chapter tactic/equivalent is +1” to charge and assault after falling back...

 

...it’s not enough.

 

It still needs more.

 

Assault after falling back is too gimmicky and situational to be competitive. Good players will never allow you that opportunity (and it’s not like we’re resilient enough to reliably use it defensively).

 

+1” wild be ok it was +1” to Move and +1” to charge and +1” to pile in. Then suddenly it starts adding up to something useful...but still not competitive in and of itself.

 

Anyways, my initial thoughts based on the above IF it were true.

[Frater Cornelius]

To be fair, no army rules are outside of DG and Astra are all that strong. If you look at Eldar, none really jump out, neither do the Nid ones. It is the whole package that does it. Eldar are so strong, because their rules synergise well with their units, because their stratagems are powerful, but most importantly, because their base units are just good (I am looking at you, Hemlock Oo). Of all the armies, Astra is the only one carried by their regimental doctrines, because they are just that good.

 

I'd say re-roll charges and hit-and-run would suffice if the units are costed appropriately, the psychic powers are good and the stratagems are rock solid.

[9x19 Parabellum]

To be fair, no army rules are outside of DG and Astra are all that strong. If you look at Eldar, none really jump out, neither do the Nid ones. It is the whole package that does it. Eldar are so strong, because their rules synergise well with their units, because their stratagems are powerful, but most importantly, because their base units are just good (I am looking at you, Hemlock Oo). Of all the armies, Astra is the only one carried by their regimental doctrines, because they are just that good.

 

I'd say re-roll charges and hit-and-run would suffice if the units are costed appropriately, the psychic powers are good and the stratagems are rock solid.

 

Ridiculous. Blood Angels deserve no such thing!

[durdle-durdle]

When 8th first came out, I misunderstood how jump packs worked and thought they could leave combat, but still shoot and charge normally. The first game, a 5-man sanguinary guard unit smashed through about 4 tyranid monsters before finally going down. My opponent couldn’t keep me in bad combats, because i’d just jump over them and charge whatever I wanted. It doesn’t stop shooty armies from hurting you, but meat shields stop meaning much.

 

+1” and charge after retreating would be pretty good imo. Again, i’d Still like 2”, but it sounds good to me.

[Bremon]

Sounds like a poor man’s White Scars to me. Which means we should be OP, because everyone knows White Scars are broken. Right?

 

Fall back and charge again would allow us to rush in, tie stuff up, fall back next turn, blast stuff to oblivion with Baal Preds and then charge again though.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Bremon

[Palwatch]

It sounds pretty good to me. Im still dubious about the truth of it

[Palwatch]

GW have cut and paste tactics across factions. They have yet to do it within factions. The idea that theyd just give us the white scars tactic with a twist is a little suspect. But then i have a history of being wrong about stuff like this.

 

If space wolves get the Emp Children tactic and we get this ill be super annoyed, althouh I think this tactic is pretty great

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

To be fair, no army rules are outside of DG and Astra are all that strong. If you look at Eldar, none really jump out, neither do the Nid ones. It is the whole package that does it. Eldar are so strong, because their rules synergise well with their units, because their stratagems are powerful, but most importantly, because their base units are just good (I am looking at you, Hemlock Oo). Of all the armies, Astra is the only one carried by their regimental doctrines, because they are just that good.

 

I'd say re-roll charges and hit-and-run would suffice if the units are costed appropriately, the psychic powers are good and the stratagems are rock solid.

 

I don't really agree with this at all. While I do agree that AM and DG are strong, my Nids now are already super tough to deal with - soon with unbreakable, faster mobs of cheap killers; they are gonna be awesome. I play against various Chaos almost every week and CSM are really strong too; they can do 'cheap chaff' along with everything we can do pretty much.

 

Eldar also look really strong - granted (and thank the Emperor) it's no longer an auto-win, but they have so many cheaper assault units that can shred us, they can also out maneuver and out shoot us all for much cheaper. I haven't played against GK or Adeptus Mech yet, but so far all of the new codex I've played against/with are quite good.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Frater Cornelius]

 

To be fair, no army rules are outside of DG and Astra are all that strong. If you look at Eldar, none really jump out, neither do the Nid ones. It is the whole package that does it. Eldar are so strong, because their rules synergise well with their units, because their stratagems are powerful, but most importantly, because their base units are just good (I am looking at you, Hemlock Oo). Of all the armies, Astra is the only one carried by their regimental doctrines, because they are just that good.

 

I'd say re-roll charges and hit-and-run would suffice if the units are costed appropriately, the psychic powers are good and the stratagems are rock solid.

 

I don't really agree with this at all. While I do agree that AM and DG are strong, my Nids now are already super tough to deal with - soon with unbreakable, faster mobs of cheap killers; they are gonna be awesome. I play against various Chaos almost every week and CSM are really strong too; they can do 'cheap chaff' along with everything we can do pretty much.

 

Eldar also look really strong - granted (and thank the Emperor) it's no longer an auto-win, but they have so many cheaper assault units that can shred us, they can also out maneuver and out shoot us all for much cheaper. I haven't played against GK or Adeptus Mech yet, but so far all of the new codex I've played against/with are quite good.

 

 

You missed the whole point. Nids are strong, but their "Chapter Tactics" are very generic and in most cases hardly worth mentioning. It is the army rules, the stratagems and units that make the army. I should've been more clear. I am solely referring to the "Chapter Tactics", not the army as a whole. DG suck as an army when compared to Guard or Eldar, but ther CT is among the stronger ones, whereas Eldar and Nid CTs are rather minimal, similar to Marines, but their armies make up for it in all other areas. This is why I said that BA may very well get a rather simple CT, but if the Stratagems and units are good enough, then it won't matter.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Food for thought; Also I would like @Mortarion's view on some of this. Here's how I feel from my meta' s perspective:

 

They have so much they need to fix with assaults that +1" to charge does almost nothing for certain units.

 

You have to have troops in tournaments. ObSec is too important. This is why Raven Guard have great tactical marines to camp with. Ultramarines and Imperial soup have RG. Imperial Guard have inexpensive troops backed by hard hitting guns, Eldar have webways for days. Being hit by 40+ deepstriking guardians into cover for a turn 1 80+ shots into your rectum is no joke. Not to mwntion they are ObSec in your board, are they are still backed by bookoos of great ranged weaponry. Melee centric armies haven't really been great since 5th edition.

 

If We go the route some of you want, we might as well play 7th edition because that's how our armies will be built. Turn 1 assaults, killing x amount of units and then getting nuked turns 2-5.

 

The only meta armies that are melee centric in my area are nids and Orks because they out dice you and are cheaper.

[TheHarrower]

My cousin plays white scars. Against my Tyranids he has literally never jumped out of combat and reassaulted, because I bounce out in my turn and shoot the piss out of him and his assault gets overwatches, I rinse and repeat.

 

I've only ever shot pistols once in 8th, it was when I had a unit that couldn't fly completely encircled so I could shoot in the shooting phase. pistols and assault after falling back is quite rubbish, unless you force yourself to be charged with a throw away unit.

 

Which marines don't really have to begin with...

I guess I don’t follow. I’ll agree that pistols aren’t super useful, but saying your cousin doesn’t jump out because he doesn’t have a chance makes no sense. If that was the case that means you never charge and playing Nids that seems odd to me.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Food for thought; Also I would like @Mortarion's view on some of this. Here's how I feel from my meta' s perspective:

 

They have so much they need to fix with assaults that +1" to charge does almost nothing for certain units.

 

You have to have troops in tournaments. ObSec is too important. This is why Raven Guard have great tactical marines to camp with. Ultramarines and Imperial soup have RG. Imperial Guard have inexpensive troops backed by hard hitting guns, Eldar have webways for days. Being hit by 40+ deepstriking guardians into cover for a turn 1 80+ shots into your rectum is no joke. Not to mwntion they are ObSec in your board, are they are still backed by bookoos of great ranged weaponry. Melee centric armies haven't really been great since 5th edition.

 

If We go the route some of you want, we might as well play 7th edition because that's how our armies will be built. Turn 1 assaults, killing x amount of units and then getting nuked turns 2-5.

 

The only meta armies that are melee centric in my area are nids and Orks because they out dice you and are cheaper.

This!

 

If were going to get some lame assault oriented tactic that will only be good on one turn...whats the point?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

 

Food for thought; Also I would like @Mortarion's view on some of this. Here's how I feel from my meta' s perspective:

 

They have so much they need to fix with assaults that +1" to charge does almost nothing for certain units.

 

You have to have troops in tournaments. ObSec is too important. This is why Raven Guard have great tactical marines to camp with. Ultramarines and Imperial soup have RG. Imperial Guard have inexpensive troops backed by hard hitting guns, Eldar have webways for days. Being hit by 40+ deepstriking guardians into cover for a turn 1 80+ shots into your rectum is no joke. Not to mwntion they are ObSec in your board, are they are still backed by bookoos of great ranged weaponry. Melee centric armies haven't really been great since 5th edition.

 

If We go the route some of you want, we might as well play 7th edition because that's how our armies will be built. Turn 1 assaults, killing x amount of units and then getting nuked turns 2-5.

 

The only meta armies that are melee centric in my area are nids and Orks because they out dice you and are cheaper.

This!

 

If were going to get some lame assault oriented tactic that will only be good on one turn...whats the point?

 

 

 

What's the point? What's the point ??

If you think an assault oriented buff is pointless for Blood Angels ... I am at a loss of nice things to say about that

 

I challenge you all to find the further will to find hope brothers !!

 

---------------------------

 

I would agree that assault needs some further loving or special rules to be worth doing. Certainly.

My meta has some VERY melee centric chaos forces in it. Marines can be made to do the CQC effectively.

Ever danced with the Bezerkers in the pale moon light?

 

+1 inch to the charge roll if true is very likely seen in a vacuum. (and also doesn't suck even in said vacuum).

I am thinking we will get beaucoup special rules.  Not just this, if it is even true.

 

Suppose the enemy cannot always just run away; and it is easier to get there, so we can hide in CQC like the good old days.

Suppose we can deny overwatch with certain rules, units, formations, relics etc; and it is easier to get there.

Suppose we can shoot our pistols before the first unit in a fight throws dice or similiar.

Suppose we can fight multiple rounds like those Khorne Flakes.

etc etc etc

So very many possibilities and things they might do...

Suppose we will not actually suck hind teet anymore...

 

By the Angel, this is supposed to be a gathering of those who have hope...

My point is we are seeing a questionable rumor in a vacuum and deciding things about our army and indeed 8th edition suck. 

I speculate dawn is near. It's been a long dark night indeed.

 

Hold the line, Love isn't always on time *nod.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

My cousin plays white scars. Against my Tyranids he has literally never jumped out of combat and reassaulted, because I bounce out in my turn and shoot the piss out of him and his assault gets overwatches, I rinse and repeat.

 

I've only ever shot pistols once in 8th, it was when I had a unit that couldn't fly completely encircled so I could shoot in the shooting phase. pistols and assault after falling back is quite rubbish, unless you force yourself to be charged with a throw away unit.

 

Which marines don't really have to begin with...

I guess I don’t follow. I’ll agree that pistols aren’t super useful, but saying your cousin doesn’t jump out because he doesn’t have a chance makes no sense. If that was the case that means you never charge and playing Nids that seems odd to me.

I don't. I play shooty nids with smite/mortal wound spam. The only units I ever assault with are for mop up duties or assisinations from leapers/death Leaper.

[Sun Reaver]

I think there should be a penalty for enemy units to leave combat. That would help BA from having the enemy disengage on their turn and shoot you to smithereens.  

[Panzer]

I think there should be a penalty for enemy units to leave combat. That would help BA from having the enemy disengage on their turn and shoot you to smithereens.  

There is. It's called not being able to shoot and it's kinda a big deal for most armies. ^^