Codex Chaos Daemons first in 2018

[Skallagoose]

im hoping those tzeentch casting traits are per turn- not overall

[Commissar K.]

Warlord Traits are up.

 

Just looking at Khorne because it's relevant to me:

 

1. Extra morale loss for enemy within 8". Meh. Could combo with Night Lords, but still pretty unimpressive.

2. Extra attack if there are lots of enemies around. I'd rather use the "+1 attack when charging" trait from the rulebook, tbh.

3. 6+++ FnP, powers up when succeeded. Pretty damn good. Suffer the wound during Overwatch just for the lols - it would affect the model for the rest of your turn, your opponent's turn, and then your whole turn again. Cool.

4. +1 warlord Strength. Depends on the wording: if it adds +1 S to the model's characteristic, then it would be awesome on an Insensate Rage thirster. Otherwise, decent on a herald or daemon prince with sword.

5. D3 mortal wounds on a single successful attack. Not great on a monster, pretty decent on a herald.

6. 8" reroll 1s aura when units charge. Pretty damn good on a thirster or herald.

 

Thinking of using the 6+++ trait on a Daemonbomb Bloodthirster if he's by himself. I'll be interested to see which traits Skarbrand, Skulltaker and Karanak get, though.

Thanks for the share!

- I agree on Morale modifiers still not being very relevant.

- Don't know if that Trait is available but I still think the additional attack is the best one here. Prime reason being that 1 vs 1 vehicle battles arn't an issue most of the time and versus units the additional attack is very welcome.

- I too think it's cool to have a 6++ with additional effect but I'm not to sold on rolling 6's ;) 

- Additional Strenght is indeed always cool, hardly required but for those who want to have the super S it's neat. I do think it adds to the characteristic. So yeah it makes some princes and stuff cool.

- Herald will indeed use the D3 mortal wounds but typically I don't think a Herald should be a general.

- Love the re-roll 1's aura too.

 

So like usual I think there are 3 relevant choices here (largely), being, sometimes +1 attack (but when you have it you need it), Mortal wounds and re-rolls of 1's. The choice to pick which largely depends on HQ but for Bloodthirster generals (worthy generals) I think the re-rolls of 1's is the way to go. If the additional attack was guaranteed (just straight up +1) it would have been closer.

 

So my pick in order of Khorne relevancy:

Best: Re-roll bubble, because it should lead to 'additional hitting attacks and more wounds'.

Good: Mortal wound D3 (Herald only)

Good: Sometimes additional attack (Princes and Greater Daemons)

 

[radionausea]

Nurgle trait 3 - if it's -1 to hit for units within 7" of the warlord that's amazing. A Great Unclean One with two units of 30 Plaguebearers. One unit at -2 to hit one at -3 (from Miasma of Pestilence). Good luck killing them.

[Commissar K.]

Nurgle trait 3 - if it's -1 to hit for units within 7" of the warlord that's amazing. A Great Unclean One with two units of 30 Plaguebearers. One unit at -2 to hit one at -3 (from Miasma of Pestilence). Good luck killing them.

Yeah pretty much all the bubbles are the best choices for GDs.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Nurgle trait 3 - if it's -1 to hit for units within 7" of the warlord that's amazing. A Great Unclean One with two units of 30 Plaguebearers. One unit at -2 to hit one at -3 (from Miasma of Pestilence). Good luck killing them.

 

I thought it is -1 as long as the attacking unit is within 7" ?

A 7" bubble of -1 to hit seems way to strong...

 

Since I only care about Slaanesh and Nurgle, I like the following the most:

 

Slaanesh

1. 3" To M - Nice, make the speedy things even speedier !

2. Reroll fail hit and wound against Char. - Situational, but a winged DP should be able to pick targets and hunt down enemy characters with that WT

6. Enemy model -1 attack (min 1) within 6" of your warlord. Does not affect vehicles. - This one gives our Warlord a better staying power as soon as he reaches CC, nice !

 

Nurgle

1. +1 Wound - sounds boring but on a T7 and FnP GUO every wound is hard work for the opponent

2. Each time warlord lose Wound in fight phase. 4+ , unit that caused that wound to the warlord , suffers a MW - Does this one trigger before the FNP rolls? I like it a lot !

3. Your opponent must subtract -1 from all hit roll that target warlord if attacking unit within 7" - I am not sure how this is meant, but either way is cool for me...

5. Warlord got a 4+ save. - 4+ not so good, 4++ amazing !

Edited January 5, 2018 by DeStinyFiSh

[Charlo]

 

Nurgle trait 3 - if it's -1 to hit for units within 7" of the warlord that's amazing. A Great Unclean One with two units of 30 Plaguebearers. One unit at -2 to hit one at -3 (from Miasma of Pestilence). Good luck killing them.

 

I thought it is -1 as long as the attacking unit is within 7" ?

A 7" bubble of -1 to hit seems way to strong...

 

Aye that's what I read it as too....

[radionausea]

That reading makes more sense.

[banis]

I hope the 4+ save is a 4++ save...

the 4+ could turn into a 2+ when next to a nurgle tree though. 

[Commissar K.]

 

I hope the 4+ save is a 4++ save...

the 4+ could turn into a 2+ when next to a nurgle tree though. 

 

Exact, plus it's not that relevant for GUO but likely just there for Heralds. I'm willing to bet that it's a regular armour save, not 4++. Not all Warlord traits are extremely relevant. The rule of tumb always has been that half are. Same with spells and the likes. 

 

Comming back to this:

 

 

 

Your opponent must subtract -1 from all hit roll that target warlord if attacking unit within 7" 

Likely indeed means:

When enemy units are within 7" of this model they must substract 1 from all hit rolls against Nurgle Daemon units. Something like this is a spell in AoS Nurgle too. 

[Finkmilkana]

Nurgle

1. +1 Wound - sounds boring but on a T7 and FnP GUO every wound is hard work for the opponent

 

Isn’t the standart 6+++ FNP warlord trait strictly better on a GUO (or rather anything with more than 6 wounds)? In expectation it should be equivalent to 3 more wounds on an 18 wound model (as you need to fail the 6+++ 3 Times before all wounds are gone).

 

But in general, the GUO seems to me rather fragile against S4 fire for its price. With 18W T7, 5++, 5+++ a twice shooting gant squad already has a very good (though a bit less than 50%) chance to just delete it in one turn and is far cheaper. I would have hoped for at least T8.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Finkmilkana

[Commissar K.]

 

But in general, the GUO seems to me rather fragile against S4 fire for its price. With 18W T7, 5++, 5+++ a twice shooting gant squad already has a very good (though a bit less than 50%) chance to just delete it in one turn and is far cheaper. I would have hoped for at least T8.

 

I certainly don't dissagree. Which is why it's going to be oh so relevant to have him in reserve so you can deep strike him in the right position for 2CP.

 

Cheers,

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

Nurgle

1. +1 Wound - sounds boring but on a T7 and FnP GUO every wound is hard work for the opponent

Isn’t the standart 6+++ FNP warlord trait strictly better on a GUO (or rather anything with more than 6 wounds)? In expectation it should be equivalent to 3 more wounds on an 18 wound model (as you need to fail the 6+++ 3 Times before all wounds are gone).

 

But in general, the GUO seems to me rather fragile against S4 fire for its price. With 18W T7, 5++, 5+++ a twice shooting gant squad already has a very good (though a bit less than 50%) chance to just delete it in one turn and is far cheaper. I would have hoped for at least T8.

 

 

You are absolutel right, I've forgotten about the BRB WLT.

 

If I have done the math correct, you need 121,5 Bolter hits to bring down a "naked" GUO, which means 182,25 Marines not in rapidfire range.

[Charlo]

 

 

Nurgle

1. +1 Wound - sounds boring but on a T7 and FnP GUO every wound is hard work for the opponent

Isn’t the standart 6+++ FNP warlord trait strictly better on a GUO (or rather anything with more than 6 wounds)? In expectation it should be equivalent to 3 more wounds on an 18 wound model (as you need to fail the 6+++ 3 Times before all wounds are gone).

 

But in general, the GUO seems to me rather fragile against S4 fire for its price. With 18W T7, 5++, 5+++ a twice shooting gant squad already has a very good (though a bit less than 50%) chance to just delete it in one turn and is far cheaper. I would have hoped for at least T8.

 

 

You are absolutel right, I've forgotten about the BRB WLT.

 

If I have done the math correct, you need 121,5 Bolter hits to bring down a "naked" GUO, which means 182,25 Marines not in rapidfire range.

 

Assuming you mean 121.5...

 

You'd get 81 hits (BS 3+)

27 wounds (5+ to Wound)

5++ saves 9 Wounds

5+++ DR saves another 6...

 

So you'd only do 12 wounds with that much!

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

 

If I have done the math correct, you need 121,5 Bolter hits to bring down a "naked" GUO, which means 182,25 Marines not in rapidfire range.

 

Assuming you mean 121.5...

 

You'd get 81 hits (BS 3+)

27 wounds (5+ to Wound)

5++ saves 9 Wounds

5+++ DR saves another 6...

 

So you'd only do 12 wounds with that much!

 

 

I was talking about 121,5 hits already, not shots

[Finkmilkana]

Yeah, the thing is that a 30 squad of gants with devourers does two time 90 shots, for on average 90 hits, 35 wounds (2/6+1/6*2/6), 23.3 unsaved wounds, 15.5 wounds in expectation after fnp (so 18 wounds is not that unlikely). All for the low price of 240 points and a CP over 18‘ (can also come from deep strike). Tacticals with bolter are just kinda bad in comparison...(though they can take special weapons to be a lot more dangerous than bolters) Edited January 5, 2018 by Finkmilkana

[THUNDERFISTS]

Regarding the Khorne traits...

 

1. If this was D6 additional wounds I could see it being useful. One additional wound from morale is just irrelevant compared to the other traits. Never take.

2. Overshadowed by the rulebook trait, definitely. Considering a Bloodthirster will get fallen back from and wiped from the board in a turn, it may help you kill one more model, maybe, just like the first trait. Hard pass.

3. Probably the best one for a Thirster. I'll be taking this if I want my Thister as the Warlord for sure.

4. Good for the Greataxe Thirster for S16 if you play against a lot of T8. Situational but useful.

5. Worthless unless you're playing in a 500pt game using a single Herald. Then it could be fun. 99% of the time it will never be taken on anything.

6. The best one for a Herald on a Throne or DP, but the worst for a Bloodthirster as it'll be dead before turn one ends guaranteed (or turn 2 if you hide him first). You don't make your overcosted wrecking machine an army buffer too. BUT put it on the for-mentioned and bubble up with 60-90 Bloodletters and you have yourself an army.

[Archaeinox]

 by codex writer/whatever on Warhammer TV- So long as you have a separate detachment of Codex: Chaos Daemons units, you have access to the demon book stratagems and those such things can be used on heretic astartes units like Mortarion etc etc because IN GAME the faction keywords and keywords are all one in the same.

 

Heck yes!

[Finkmilkana]

I suspect though that the deep strike stratagem will get an errata disallowing LOW/units above a certain powerlevel quite soon. Until then deep striking primachs will dominate tournaments.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

If I have done the math correct, you need 121,5 Bolter hits to bring down a "naked" GUO, which means 182,25 Marines not in rapidfire range.

 

Assuming you mean 121.5...

 

You'd get 81 hits (BS 3+)

27 wounds (5+ to Wound)

5++ saves 9 Wounds

5+++ DR saves another 6...

 

So you'd only do 12 wounds with that much!

 

 

I was talking about 121,5 hits already, not shots

 

Minor thing but keep in mind that in english the use of . and , for numbers is reversed. For decimals you use . instead of , etc.

So "One thousand" would be 1,000 and "One half" would be 0.5 ;)

[Khornestar]

 by codex writer/whatever on Warhammer TV- So long as you have a separate detachment of Codex: Chaos Daemons units, you have access to the demon book stratagems and those such things can be used on heretic astartes units like Mortarion etc etc because IN GAME the faction keywords and keywords are all one in the same.

 

Heck yes!

 

And confirmed again. Suhweet. 

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

 

 

 

If I have done the math correct, you need 121,5 Bolter hits to bring down a "naked" GUO, which means 182,25 Marines not in rapidfire range.

 

Assuming you mean 121.5...

 

You'd get 81 hits (BS 3+)

27 wounds (5+ to Wound)

5++ saves 9 Wounds

5+++ DR saves another 6...

 

So you'd only do 12 wounds with that much!

 

 

I was talking about 121,5 hits already, not shots

 

Minor thing but keep in mind that in english the use of . and , for numbers is reversed. For decimals you use . instead of , etc.

So "One thousand" would be 1,000 and "One half" would be 0.5

 

 

Ah, now I understand 

Damn you all for being different then us !

 

On Topic:

Focus Slaanesh is online but pretty boring...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/05/faction-focus-daemons-of-slaaneshgw-homepage-post-3/

Edited January 5, 2018 by DeStinyFiSh

[Finkmilkana]

All those ‚reduce attack characteristic by one‘ things Slaanesh gets seem pretty strange. For example someone with 1A and a chainsword (I.e. assault squads) still gets two attacks (as the chainsword doesn’t change the characteristic). Most „make one additional attack“ auras also would seem unaffected (assuming the model in question only has 1 attack base obviously). Edited January 5, 2018 by Finkmilkana

[Panzer]

Yeah nothing new so far.

I mean it's great that we can reduce enemy units attacks in melee....however that doesn't matter at all against shooty lists so it's a rather niche application as long as the meta isn't more balanced. Maybe with the Daemon Codex and soon the Ork Codex we'll see more melee lists tho.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Maybe with the Daemon Codex and soon the Ork Codex we'll see more melee lists tho.

And then the Tau Codex drops :p

But to be realistic, until every single Codex has been released it it is hard to talk about bad balance I think

[The Traitor]

I think Slaanesh only defence against shooting will be the Deep Strike strat, which probably won't be enough to make them competitive but oh well... at least they're cool. Though things like World Eaters, Blood Angels or Ctachans are screwed against us :P, let's hope the Codex has something that hasn't been shown to defend us from the likes of tau, artillery or primaris (because advancing and charging isn't enough to close the gap).