Codex Chaos Daemons first in 2018

[Commissar K.]

Well that really depends on intention ;) its 100% likely that a mix is more powerful as going mono, its the halmark of 8th if you will.

 

PS I cant even find Khârn on BattleScribe :p

[DeStinyFiSh]

BattleScribe is kinda dumb when it comes to FW stuff for some reason. They have Mamon and a couple other things in there, but no Blight Drone or Plague Hulk, let alone the CSM options...

Yeah, I found the Hulk within the CSM units, kind of confusing

[DuskRaider]

They just updated it, it seems... but they have the FW stuff (from what I see) under FW: Heretic Astartes or as you said under generic CSM. Dumb.

[radionausea]

Mamon is under Daemons when he should be under Heretic Astartes by their own logic (he has the Death Guard keyword).

 

I'm hoping for:

An infiltrate stratagem (like Alpha Legion) to represent daemons manifesting out of the warp.

 

Greater Daemons having a better aura

 

Each God's discipline having 6 powers (can't see why this won't be the case)

 

Heralds having a choice of auras. +1 strength for all isn't much fun

 

Great Unclean one getting a new model and new rules to represent the new, bigger, model

 

That there's not a new keyword for Daemons in this book.

Edited December 24, 2017 by radionausea

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I'm with sfpanzer, I'll hang my whip up completely before I admit non-Slaanesh Daemons into my force.

[Shockmaster]

Horticulous Slimux confirmed to be coming to 40k, excited to see his rules.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Shockmaster

[Mileposter]

I'm with sfpanzer, I'll hang my whip up completely before I admit non-Slaanesh Daemons into my force.

Looking at the Community post this morning, seems like you won't have to!

[Excessus]

Praise Tzeentch! That locus looks really nice!

Edited December 28, 2017 by Excessus
My spelling was tainted by the warp

[Panzer]

The Tzeentch one does look really nice, yeah.

The Slaanesh one is a no-brainer. Awesome all around, however I'm looking forward to what Seekers will get instead of their similar special rule then.

The Nurgle one seems niche. It only really comes into play against multi-wound targets. Against Primaris etc. of course it will be sick (pun intended)!

The Khorne one looks okay. Can't say I like it as much as the Slaanesh one but maybe Daemons will get their Deep Strike back and then it will be a lot better of course.

[Shockmaster]

I wonder if Nurgle will get at least one new psychic power since their new army rule seems similar enough to the Virulent Blessing power from the index.

[Panzer]

I'm pretty sure all three gods will get three new powers each.

[Stross]

 

The Khorne one looks okay. Can't say I like it as much as the Slaanesh one but maybe Daemons will get their Deep Strike back and then it will be a lot better of course.

If we could reroll ANY dice, then yes. But we forced to reroll two of them. We need 8 mostly. First five, rerolling for for or six. And can't do this again for Command Point. So command point looks much more reliable. 

And I don't know how this must be played now. Ok, we are going to take the detachment of demons. Alright then. Then then they must move on their own (which is unlikely very good against shooty army). Or we are forced to drop a lot of guys (or move them as Alpha guys for Command points), they must survive enemy first turn, someone like Bloodfirster is going to fly closer, they summon more demons and only THEN they can charge with still big chance to fail it. 

This is not great. Our only chance only with Stratagems and changing rules for units. Because now Bloodfirsters do nothing for 340 points (they die very quickly) 

[Panzer]

 

 

The Khorne one looks okay. Can't say I like it as much as the Slaanesh one but maybe Daemons will get their Deep Strike back and then it will be a lot better of course.

If we could reroll ANY dice, then yes. But we forced to reroll two of them. We need 8 mostly. First five, rerolling for for or six. And can't do this again for Command Point. So command point looks much more reliable. 

And I don't know how this must be played now. Ok, we are going to take the detachment of demons. Alright then. Then then they must move on their own (which is unlikely very good against shooty army). Or we are forced to drop a lot of guys (or move them as Alpha guys for Command points), they must survive enemy first turn, someone like Bloodfirster is going to fly closer, they summon more demons and only THEN they can charge with still big chance to fail it. 

This is not great. Our only chance only with Stratagems and changing rules for units. Because now Bloodfirsters do nothing for 340 points (they die very quickly) 

 

Don't worry, I've analyzed the different re-rolls for charges and chances to pull it off enough due me being a Blood Angels player. ;)

[Cheex]

As a Khorne player, I like that locus. I hope instruments keep their +1" charge moves as well, that would make a charge from summoning reasonably likely.

 

I also hope these abilities just become normal auras so they can affect daemons in CSM armies as well. Getting rerolls on daemon engines would be nice.

[Commissar K.]

As mentioned on the previous page, I'm very happy with this first set of Bubbles and expect only more. That is if the design team wants Daemons to be propperly scary with a Greater Daemon in the right place ;) 

I think all Locus are good, I would actually say that the one for Slaanesh is the best (but they will not have an updated KoS so nothing to worry about right now) followed by Khorne, Nurgle and offcourse Tzeentch. Tzeentch has the potential to be really good offcourse but somehow many seem to miss it only applies for the Fight phase, not all phases not the whole turn ;) 

What I think most narrative fans will love though is that Chaos Daemons really seem designed with the narrative preforance in place. Which is funny too because I was under the assumption that GW let that whole idea go for 8th, based on the soups we see in Imperium, Chaos, Tyranids etc. But no, Daemons have their preforance (which is new for 40K if I recall correctly ha!). Like it used to be in WFB.

The prime thing I love is that mono-God armies seem to return and actually work really well. With or without second Detachment of CSM. 

Cheers,

[Panzer]

What I think most narrative fans will love though is that Chaos Daemons really seem designed with the narrative preforance in place. Which is funny too because I was under the assumption that GW let that whole idea go for 8th, based on the soups we see in Imperium, Chaos, Tyranids etc. But no, Daemons have their preforance (which is new for 40K if I recall correctly ha!). Like it used to be in WFB.

 

Well the whole design of 8th edition is all about "You can mix and match basically anything but you get better stuff if you play a more restricted army".

The problem is just that GW made the mistake to make it work detachment based so now it's way too easy to play soup armies without having any real drawback.

 

I would've restricted all the faction keyword specific stuff (Stratagems, relics, traits, etc.) armywide and then make different levels of that stuff for each instance of faction keywords (i.e. something for when your army is a chaos army, a heretic astartes army, a daemon army, a nurgle army or a death guard army. The more restricted your armys faction keyword is the bigger the amount of stuff you can use to compensate for the lack of unit options.

Unfortunately I don't work for GWs design team so that's a moot point. :P

[Mileposter]

 

What I think most narrative fans will love though is that Chaos Daemons really seem designed with the narrative preforance in place. Which is funny too because I was under the assumption that GW let that whole idea go for 8th, based on the soups we see in Imperium, Chaos, Tyranids etc. But no, Daemons have their preforance (which is new for 40K if I recall correctly ha!). Like it used to be in WFB.

 

Well the whole design of 8th edition is all about "You can mix and match basically anything but you get better stuff if you play a more restricted army".

The problem is just that GW made the mistake to make it work detachment based so now it's way too easy to play soup armies without having any real drawback.

 

I would've restricted all the faction keyword specific stuff (Stratagems, relics, traits, etc.) armywide and then make different levels of that stuff for each instance of faction keywords (i.e. something for when your army is a chaos army, a heretic astartes army, a daemon army, a nurgle army or a death guard army. The more restricted your armys faction keyword is the bigger the amount of stuff you can use to compensate for the lack of unit options.

Unfortunately I don't work for GWs design team so that's a moot point.

 

In fairness, their system would have worked perfectly like that as is, if they hadn't made "Imperium", "Aeldari", or "Chaos" faction words.

 

To be fair, that's not inherently a bad thing. I just hope they go all-in with the larger faction concept or abandon it, because the half-and-half I think is what's burning players so badly.

[Panzer]

 

 

What I think most narrative fans will love though is that Chaos Daemons really seem designed with the narrative preforance in place. Which is funny too because I was under the assumption that GW let that whole idea go for 8th, based on the soups we see in Imperium, Chaos, Tyranids etc. But no, Daemons have their preforance (which is new for 40K if I recall correctly ha!). Like it used to be in WFB.

 

Well the whole design of 8th edition is all about "You can mix and match basically anything but you get better stuff if you play a more restricted army".

The problem is just that GW made the mistake to make it work detachment based so now it's way too easy to play soup armies without having any real drawback.

 

I would've restricted all the faction keyword specific stuff (Stratagems, relics, traits, etc.) armywide and then make different levels of that stuff for each instance of faction keywords (i.e. something for when your army is a chaos army, a heretic astartes army, a daemon army, a nurgle army or a death guard army. The more restricted your armys faction keyword is the bigger the amount of stuff you can use to compensate for the lack of unit options.

Unfortunately I don't work for GWs design team so that's a moot point.

 

In fairness, their system would have worked perfectly like that as is, if they hadn't made "Imperium", "Aeldari", or "Chaos" faction words.

 

To be fair, that's not inherently a bad thing. I just hope they go all-in with the larger faction concept or abandon it, because the half-and-half I think is what's burning players so badly.

 

That wasn't what they wanted tho. They do want people being able to mix Space Marines and Astra Militarum and AdMech etc. in the same list.

However they said they wanted to also  reward player who build an army around one of the more restrictive faction keywords like (chapters, legions, etc.) and they failed at doing so since they made it detachment based instead of army based and so their originally good idea failed to work as intended.

[Mileposter]

Wasn't speaking to intention. Merely that it could have worked that way with a minor change, and wishlisting something to come.

[WarriorFish]

Let's try and keep the conversation on the upcoming Daemons codex please, discussion on the nature and merits of the army system in 8th can be taken to a different topic :tu:

[Panzer]

Agreed, apologies. 

[Mileposter]

Fair and conceded.

[Commissar K.]

 

Well the whole design of 8th edition is all about "You can mix and match basically anything but you get better stuff if you play a more restricted army".

The problem is just that GW made the mistake to make it work detachment based so now it's way too easy to play soup armies without having any real drawback.

 

I would've restricted all the faction keyword specific stuff (Stratagems, relics, traits, etc.) armywide and then make different levels of that stuff for each instance of faction keywords (i.e. something for when your army is a chaos army, a heretic astartes army, a daemon army, a nurgle army or a death guard army. The more restricted your armys faction keyword is the bigger the amount of stuff you can use to compensate for the lack of unit options.

Unfortunately I don't work for GWs design team so that's a moot point.

 

As above I don't think it's a problem perse. As narrative leads the design and there is easily more narrative of soup-armies/mixed forces as there is of 100% dedicated one-chapter/legion forces. In the end I think there not being any massive drawback only allows the players to explore more within the hobby. This is obviosuly Games Workshop's prime interest and as such I actually believe they intentionally designed it all this way.

 

There are many ways to create a suggestion of restriction. The downside of this is however that then every Codex becomes much harder to balance. This might sound odd at first but the fact certain Codex armies do not have acces to X or Y is only an issue if they also do not have that acces through Index or Imperial Armour. Better put if all factions have acces to a much wider strength range the strongest outcome is soup but that soup competes very well amongst "soup-tournaments" if your at home and don't want that or start out with a Codex with some mates, the issue isn't really there either because from that moment on the intention should never be to only win.

 

That aside, I'm looking very forward to all the upcomming Daemon buffs because I believe there will only be more.

 

As a Khorne fantatic I'd also say that Khorne Berzerkers love to have the re-roll charge effect for the 10 points they have to pay for it. The fact that Daemons actually all have relevant abilities like that easily leads to massive cheap hordes who get work done. The combination of CSM and Daemons is also bound to be very potent but I do think the Daemon bubbles will indeed not have the Tyranid sizes, logical also.

 

Neat to know for Nurgle fans is that Horticulous (the dude on the snail) is also going to be in Codex Chaos Daemons. I'm also allready working on some Heralds. Going back and forth as a Chaos player between Age of Sigmar and 40.000 is just awesome. 

 

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tgacommunity/monthly_2017_12/20171229_220251.jpg.0c9ea21eb4e40c862526ba7a530e276b.jpg

[Withershadow]

But no, Daemons have their preforance (which is new for 40K if I recall correctly ha!). Like it used to be in WFB.

Animosity (not preference) was a thing for 40K and FB since practically the very start, so they are bringing back now retro ideas.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Does anyone know which units qualify to be a Locus? Do we know if Heralds do? 'Cause I have six of them...